Israel does it again...

[Copper]

When is the last time anyone cried out when a suicide bomber killed people in Israel? When is the last time anyone cried out when rockets were fired into Israel?

Maybe if the Arabs came over to the US en masse and pushed you all into the least fertile areas of your state, because the UN/UK said they could, then they used their military might to evict you from your family homes and land, built a wall around you so no one could get out and nothing could get in unless they permitted it, then they slowly took more and more of your land bulldozing your homes, and cutting your water/power/gas if you resisted for days on end crushing what little economy you have, starving your people, and preventing them from getting medical supplies.

Would you fight back?

Oh and those TERRIBLE rockets Hammas launch at Israel.... do you know how many people they have killed in the past 10 years... less than the number of people that were murdered by Israeli soldiers last week.

+11

[DJTX]

When is the last time anyone cried out when a suicide bomber killed people in Israel? When is the last time anyone cried out when rockets were fired into Israel?

Maybe if the Arabs came over to the US en masse and pushed you all into the least fertile areas of your state, because the UN/UK said they could, then they used their military might to evict you from your family homes and land, built a wall around you so no one could get out and nothing could get in unless they permitted it, then they slowly took more and more of your land bulldozing your homes, and cutting your water/power/gas if you resisted for days on end crushing what little economy you have, starving your people, and preventing them from getting medical supplies.

Would you fight back?

Oh and those TERRIBLE rockets Hammas launch at Israel.... do you know how many people they have killed in the past 10 years... less than the number of people that were murdered by Israeli soldiers last week.

You are just making the point that what Israel does is wrong. And I agree. What Israel is doing to Gaza is wrong. But again, I hear no condemnation of terrorism. I guess to some one is okay but the other isn't.

[Rob]

When people insist on predicating their entire arguments on something they insist is an absolute--that the blockade is illegal--but which is in fact NOT an absolute, it's clear that constructive debate is not possible.

And when the same people prate about "humanitarian" empathy with the people of Gaza, yet exhibit none of the same sentiment towards the people of Israel, it's obvious that some factor has eclipsed their logic.

We all have our prejudices, some of it originating from experience, perhaps some from irrational emotions. In case mine hasn't been made crystal clear thus far, I despise those who wish to deny Israel its territorial integrity.

Perhaps some of those who seem unduly concerned with the legal and humanitarian aspects of the blockade pertinent to one side of the conflict should ask themselves whether their "concern" and "outrage" are nothing more than a hideous--but rather diaphanous--cloak for their anti-Israeli, perhaps anti-Jewish, bigotry.

The volume of sanctimonious hypocrisy in this thread makes me feel almost ashamed to be a member of TF.

[beej]

When is the last time anyone cried out when a suicide bomber killed people in Israel? When is the last time anyone cried out when rockets were fired into Israel?

Maybe if the Arabs came over to the US en masse and pushed you all into the least fertile areas of your state, because the UN/UK said they could, then they used their military might to evict you from your family homes and land, built a wall around you so no one could get out and nothing could get in unless they permitted it, then they slowly took more and more of your land bulldozing your homes, and cutting your water/power/gas if you resisted for days on end crushing what little economy you have, starving your people, and preventing them from getting medical supplies.

Would you fight back?

Oh and those TERRIBLE rockets Hammas launch at Israel.... do you know how many people they have killed in the past 10 years... less than the number of people that were murdered by Israeli soldiers last week.

You are just making the point that what Israel does is wrong. And I agree. What Israel is doing to Gaza is wrong. But again, I hear no condemnation of terrorism. I guess to some one is okay but the other isn't.

If this had happened to your country, would you be calling yourself terrorists or freedom fighters?

[beej]

Perhaps some of those who seem unduly concerned with the legal and humanitarian aspects of the blockade pertinent to one side of the conflict should ask themselves whether their "concern" and "outrage" are nothing more than a hideous--but rather diaphanous--cloak for their anti-Israeli, perhaps anti-Jewish, bigotry.

You know as well as I do, this is to do with the basic human rights of the 1 million + innocent women and children in Gaza.

You simply can't condone Israel turning Gaza into one large concentration camp.

The only middle road for now in my eyes is to turn over the sea ports of Gaza to the UN and let them search every boat entering strip for illegal weapons, and drugs.

All AID/Water/Food/Building supplies/Medicine/Fuel shouldn't have to go through Israel before getting into Gaza.

[English_Bob]

Oh and those TERRIBLE rockets Hammas launch at Israel.... do you know how many people they have killed in the past 10 years... less than the number of people that were murdered by Israeli soldiers last week.

Still not taking sides... (although I don't like The Hammas much... I saw them play at Upton Park 5 years ago and thought they were cheating, whining bastards)

But I thought the rocket statistic sounded a bit off... Guardian stated 19 deaths in 6 years. That's still lower than I expected. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/30/israel-hamas-gaza

When stuff like this happens, I can't help but question the thought process that goes into these decisions... Hamas launch rockets into Israeli towns - bringing condemnation from the outside world and fierce retaliation from Israel. Israel retaliate with a huge ground offensive and a blockade - bringing condemnation and inflaming more Palestinian supporters.

Are there any clear-headed individuals who can sit down and compromise? Anyone? Anywhere?

[DJTX]

Oh and those TERRIBLE rockets Hammas launch at Israel.... do you know how many people they have killed in the past 10 years... less than the number of people that were murdered by Israeli soldiers last week.

The production of Qassams began in September 2001 following the outbreak of the Second Intifada. The first Qassam to be launched was the Qassam-1, fired on October 2001, with a maximum range of 3 kilometers (2 mi) to 4.5 kilometers (3 mi).[6] February 10, 2002 was the first time Palestinians launched rockets into Israel, rather than at Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip. One of the rockets landed in Kibbutz Saad.[8] A Qassam first hit an Israeli city on March 5, 2002 when two rockets struck the southern city of Sderot. Some rockets have hit as far as the edge of Ashkelon. The total number of Qassam rockets launched exceeded 1,000 by June 9, 2006. During the year 2006 alone, more than 1,000 rockets were launched. In 2008, 1750 rockets were launched. By the end of December 2008, a total of 15 people had been killed by Qassam rockets since attacks began in 2001

[beej]

*19 in 8 years.

I'm not saying these rocket attacks are right, in fact they are evil, out right murderous stupid.

BUT The media does blow them out of all proportion, especially the American media for some reason..

[eagle]

Perhaps some of those who seem unduly concerned with the legal and humanitarian aspects of the blockade pertinent to one side of the conflict should ask themselves whether their "concern" and "outrage" are nothing more than a hideous--but rather diaphanous--cloak for their anti-Israeli, perhaps anti-Jewish, bigotry.

You know as well as I do, this is to do with the basic human rights of the 1 million + innocent women and children in Gaza.

You simply can't condone Israel turning Gaza into one large concentration camp.

The only middle road for now in my eyes is to turn over the sea ports of Gaza to the UN and let them search every boat entering strip for illegal weapons, and drugs.

All AID/Water/Food/Building supplies/Medicine/Fuel shouldn't have to go through Israel before getting into Gaza.

I agree with your sentiments but with the UNs track record I'm afraid it would get worse with outsiders trying to be middlemen. Hams has pissed the Israeli off again and again. I dare to say both sides have been sabotaging any chance for peace.

[beej]

Oh and those TERRIBLE rockets Hammas launch at Israel.... do you know how many people they have killed in the past 10 years... less than the number of people that were murdered by Israeli soldiers last week.

The production of Qassams began in September 2001 following the outbreak of the Second Intifada. The first Qassam to be launched was the Qassam-1, fired on October 2001, with a maximum range of 3 kilometers (2 mi) to 4.5 kilometers (3 mi).[6] February 10, 2002 was the first time Palestinians launched rockets into Israel, rather than at Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip. One of the rockets landed in Kibbutz Saad.[8] A Qassam first hit an Israeli city on March 5, 2002 when two rockets struck the southern city of Sderot. Some rockets have hit as far as the edge of Ashkelon. The total number of Qassam rockets launched exceeded 1,000 by June 9, 2006. During the year 2006 alone, more than 1,000 rockets were launched. In 2008, 1750 rockets were launched. By the end of December 2008, a total of 15 people had been killed by Qassam rockets since attacks began in 2001

So 3750 rockets launched, 15 people killed.

Proper ******* deadly them there rockets.

I guess more people die in Israel of drink driving over a holiday weekend than Palestinian rockets have killed in the whole of the past 8 years.

[beej]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment_and_arts/10250452.stm

[English_Bob]

Or you could say that Hamas launched explosives into civilian areas at a rate of more than one a day for 8 years.

You could say that people never knew whether the next rocket attack would come.

Any figures on people maimed?

Wonder what would have been the death toll if they had had access to better weaponry.

Still not taking sides... just from an outsiders POV.

(PS Let me know when you are having a yard sale, Beej... I'll be there with cash in hand)

[DJTX]

Oh and those TERRIBLE rockets Hammas launch at Israel.... do you know how many people they have killed in the past 10 years... less than the number of people that were murdered by Israeli soldiers last week.

The production of Qassams began in September 2001 following the outbreak of the Second Intifada. The first Qassam to be launched was the Qassam-1, fired on October 2001, with a maximum range of 3 kilometers (2 mi) to 4.5 kilometers (3 mi).[6] February 10, 2002 was the first time Palestinians launched rockets into Israel, rather than at Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip. One of the rockets landed in Kibbutz Saad.[8] A Qassam first hit an Israeli city on March 5, 2002 when two rockets struck the southern city of Sderot. Some rockets have hit as far as the edge of Ashkelon. The total number of Qassam rockets launched exceeded 1,000 by June 9, 2006. During the year 2006 alone, more than 1,000 rockets were launched. In 2008, 1750 rockets were launched. By the end of December 2008, a total of 15 people had been killed by Qassam rockets since attacks began in 2001

So 3750 rockets launched, 15 people killed.

Proper f*cking deadly them there rockets.

I guess more people die in Israel of drink driving over a holiday weekend than Palestinian rockets have killed in the whole of the past 8 years.

So to you it's okay for them to fire thousands and thousands of rockets into Israel? Guess you might feel different if it was your house it landed on.

I guess it would be okay then, by your logic, if any country in the world started firing rockets into another country, as long as there were not that many killed (again unless you were one of them).

Your logic seems to be that only Israel is wrong. That Hamas are a bunch of little angels, who are not bent on the destruction of Israel. Oh yeah, that. Seems a lot of people seem to have forgotten that one.

[eagle]

Oh and those TERRIBLE rockets Hammas launch at Israel.... do you know how many people they have killed in the past 10 years... less than the number of people that were murdered by Israeli soldiers last week.

The production of Qassams began in September 2001 following the outbreak of the Second Intifada. The first Qassam to be launched was the Qassam-1, fired on October 2001, with a maximum range of 3 kilometers (2 mi) to 4.5 kilometers (3 mi).[6] February 10, 2002 was the first time Palestinians launched rockets into Israel, rather than at Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip. One of the rockets landed in Kibbutz Saad.[8] A Qassam first hit an Israeli city on March 5, 2002 when two rockets struck the southern city of Sderot. Some rockets have hit as far as the edge of Ashkelon. The total number of Qassam rockets launched exceeded 1,000 by June 9, 2006. During the year 2006 alone, more than 1,000 rockets were launched. In 2008, 1750 rockets were launched. By the end of December 2008, a total of 15 people had been killed by Qassam rockets since attacks began in 2001

So 3750 rockets launched, 15 people killed.

Proper f*cking deadly them there rockets.

I guess more people die in Israel of drink driving over a holiday weekend than Palestinian rockets have killed in the whole of the past 8 years.

Now if it was me and someone shot 1 rocket at me they would be **** in my eyes. I doubt you would be buddies with some one who shot a rocket at you. Thats the absurd stupidity of Hamas. Israel and Palestine have made agreements and a rocket goes off or someone blows themselves up. I picture some assh*le talking the person into it for allah.

And of course after a peace agreement Israel will start a new development in the middle of Gaza. Its been a mess for so long. There is really no good side to be on but who has the bigger stick isn't rocket science to figure out and its what rules the world, always has. I think Hamas are the worst thing to happen to Palestine in the last 30 years but politicians always just help themselves and their agenda.

It comes a time when your people suffer to lay down your arms but Hamas would rather fight on to the last man but that man is a child.

[eagle]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment_and_arts/10250452.stm

well that cuts it :twisted:

[beej]

I'm sorry, maybe you'd have to go there to understand why this is all happening, I'm sure many of you would support the Hamas if you were born in Gaza and stuck within Gaza, never to leave and to live in the concentration camp that is Gaza.

Just gathering your information from the news, without living there isn't enough to grasp just whats going on.

[CiaranM]

When people insist on predicating their entire arguments on something they insist is an absolute--that the blockade is illegal--but which is in fact NOT an absolute, it's clear that constructive debate is not possible.

And when the same people prate about "humanitarian" empathy with the people of Gaza, yet exhibit none of the same sentiment towards the people of Israel, it's obvious that some factor has eclipsed their logic.

We all have our prejudices, some of it originating from experience, perhaps some from irrational emotions. In case mine hasn't been made crystal clear thus far, I despise those who wish to deny Israel its territorial integrity.

Perhaps some of those who seem unduly concerned with the legal and humanitarian aspects of the blockade pertinent to one side of the conflict should ask themselves whether their "concern" and "outrage" are nothing more than a hideous--but rather diaphanous--cloak for their anti-Israeli, perhaps anti-Jewish, bigotry.

The volume of sanctimonious hypocrisy in this thread makes me feel almost ashamed to be a member of TF.

FFS ... when all else fails lets play the old all criticism of isreal is anti-jew, anti-semite bigotry !!! :roll: :roll:

and israel is doing it's f**king best to make sure there's gonna be no territory left for the palestinians to establish a state on !!!

[eagle]

I'm sorry, maybe you'd have to go there to understand why this is all happening, I'm sure many of you would support the Hamas if you were born in Gaza and stuck within Gaza, never to leave and to live in the concentration camp that is Gaza.

Just gathering your information from the news, without living there isn't enough to grasp just whats going on.

You missed the point. They are not going to rocket their way out of their. If a man holds your child and says I will kill him if you disobey me do you shoot a rocket at him. I wouldn't. There is a humanitarian side to Israel but it is buried in Hamas rockets. They are trying to sway the world to help them but the world is not blind and allah lalalalalala

[DJTX]

I'm sorry, maybe you'd have to go there to understand why this is all happening, I'm sure many of you would support the Hamas if you were born in Gaza and stuck within Gaza, never to leave and to live in the concentration camp that is Gaza.

Just gathering your information from the news, without living there isn't enough to grasp just whats going on.

Since you don't know all of us assuming none of us have been there is no more than a wild guess. But that's not the point. I don't hear anyone saying life isn't intolerable there. But both sides have done things that they should not have.

And I can agree with you that many of the regular citizens of Gaza probably support Hamas because of the blockade (although not all Palestinians do support Hamas). But where were those regular citizens before the blockade? How may spoke out against the rockets and the terrorist attacks?

It's pathetic that they can not work out their differences, both are acting like a bunch of spoiled children.

Again, Israel is wrong in what they are doing. But they aren't the only one's wrong in this entire situation.

[CiaranM]

I think Hamas are the worst thing to happen to Palestine in the last 30 years but politicians always just help themselves and their agenda.

It comes a time when your people suffer to lay down your arms but Hamas would rather fight on to the last man but that man is a child.

i would guess most palestinians would say israel is the worst thing to happen to them EVER !!

[eagle]

I think Hamas are the worst thing to happen to Palestine in the last 30 years but politicians always just help themselves and their agenda.

It comes a time when your people suffer to lay down your arms but Hamas would rather fight on to the last man but that man is a child.

i would guess most palestinians would say israel is the worst thing to happen to them EVER !!

Yea but Hamas isn't helping at all. I feel for the people of Gaza I truely do but Hamas are political jerkoffs. Palestine needs leaders not Martyrs !!!!!! and trying to get the world to give a **** about women and children suffering in Gaza is a Joke. Look at Africa. SHiiit thats a dam shame huh . talk about a million and 1/2 in Gaza how about 1 and 1/2 million dead in genocidal bullshit wars in one shot in africa. Hams are fools to think they are doing anything but killing their own peoples chance for anything better. The calvary is not fu*king coming.

[CiaranM]

I think Hamas are the worst thing to happen to Palestine in the last 30 years but politicians always just help themselves and their agenda.

It comes a time when your people suffer to lay down your arms but Hamas would rather fight on to the last man but that man is a child.

i would guess most palestinians would say israel is the worst thing to happen to them EVER !!

Yea but Hamas isn't helping at all. I feel for the people of Gaza I truely do but Hamas are political jerkoffs. Palestine needs leaders not Martyrs !!!!!! and trying to get the world to give a sh*t about women and children suffering in Gaza is a Joke. Look at Africa. SHiiit thats a dam shame huh . talk about a million and 1/2 in Gaza how about 1 and 1/2 million dead in genocidal bullshit wars in one shot in africa. Hams are fools to think they are doing anything but killing their own peoples chance for anything better. The calvary is not fu*king coming.

yeah hamas r not exactly knights in shining armour ... but the israelis manage to paint themselves as the victims while they lay siege to gaza and murder with impunity !!

they murder citizens from another soverign state in international waters ... and they'll hold the enquiry ... can u imagine what would have happened if iran or north korea had attacked a US ship in international waters !!!

and they israel politicians r just as big a shower of assholes and jerkoffs as hamas !!

[eagle]

I think Hamas are the worst thing to happen to Palestine in the last 30 years but politicians always just help themselves and their agenda.

It comes a time when your people suffer to lay down your arms but Hamas would rather fight on to the last man but that man is a child.

i would guess most palestinians would say israel is the worst thing to happen to them EVER !!

Yea but Hamas isn't helping at all. I feel for the people of Gaza I truely do but Hamas are political jerkoffs. Palestine needs leaders not Martyrs !!!!!! and trying to get the world to give a sh*t about women and children suffering in Gaza is a Joke. Look at Africa. SHiiit thats a dam shame huh . talk about a million and 1/2 in Gaza how about 1 and 1/2 million dead in genocidal bullshit wars in one shot in africa. Hams are fools to think they are doing anything but killing their own peoples chance for anything better. The calvary is not fu*king coming.

yeah hamas r not exactly knights in shining armour ... but the israelis manage to paint themselves as the victims while they lay siege to gaza and murder with impunity !!

they murder citizens from another soverign state in international waters ... and they'll hold the enquiry ... can u imagine what would have happened if iran or north korea had attacked a US ship in international waters !!!

and they israel politicians r just as big a shower of assholes and jerkoffs as hamas !!

Your missing the whole concept oF Big stick. Israel has the big stick and Hams has a tiny little stick. The guys with the HUGE sticks could give a **** and the rest of the sticks are jerkin someone elses sticks off. If hamas had half a brain they would have pushed their people to peace and resolution instead of helping to keep them in shambles for a good photo opt. :twisted:

[Dr_Mike]

Hi guys.

My two baht comment:

The day they all realize they are semites and there is no God will be the beginning

of peace.

Man made religion is the root of ALL wars.

Is it safe to go back to "Thighland" yet ?

[eagle]

Man made religion is the root of ALL wars.

can I have an amen