Interesting Sign

[luckyphil247]

CorDoba is the name of a Spanish city conquered by Muslims - the inference being that they would name the building after a military victory over the Spanish Christians.

So sweet of them, no wonder they're loved so much throughout the world, :roll:

[luckyphil247]

I wish we could build a f*cking Mosque on ground zero... I'd have 100% more respect for the Yanks if they did.

You mean a place where you can grab yourself a girl and **** inside the mosque ???

[Stramash]

CorDoba is the name of a Spanish city conquered by Muslims - the inference being that they would name the building after a military victory over the Spanish Christians.

Rather than celebrating a victory, do you not think it may be in recognition that Cordoba and Andalusia under Muslim rule was a centre of cultural and economic prosperity, as well as an example of tolerance in allowing different religions to live side by side?

"María Rosa Menocal, a specialist in Iberian literature, has argued that "tolerance was an inherent aspect of Andalusian society". In her view, the Jewish and Christian dhimmis living under the Caliphate, while allowed fewer rights than Muslims, were much better off than in other parts of Christian Europe. Will Durant said in his book The Story of Civilization: “Moslems seem to have been better gentlemen than their Christian peers; they kept their word more frequently, showed more mercy to the defeated, and were seldom guilty of the brutality as marked the Christian capture of Jerusalem in 1099."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus#Non-Muslims_under_the_Caliphate

[beej]

I wish we could build a f*cking Mosque on ground zero... I'd have 100% more respect for the Yanks if they did.

You mean a place where you can grab yourself a girl and f*ck inside the mosque ???

No you mongtard.

[kaunitz]

CorDoba is the name of a Spanish city conquered by Muslims - the inference being that they would name the building after a military victory over the Spanish Christians.

Rather than celebrating a victory, do you not think it may be in recognition that Cordoba and Andalusia under Muslim rule was a centre of cultural and economic prosperity, as well as an example of tolerance in allowing different religions to live side by side?

"María Rosa Menocal, a specialist in Iberian literature, has argued that "tolerance was an inherent aspect of Andalusian society". In her view, the Jewish and Christian dhimmis living under the Caliphate, while allowed fewer rights than Muslims, were much better off than in other parts of Christian Europe. Will Durant said in his book The Story of Civilization: “Moslems seem to have been better gentlemen than their Christian peers; they kept their word more frequently, showed more mercy to the defeated, and were seldom guilty of the brutality as marked the Christian capture of Jerusalem in 1099."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus#Non-Muslims_under_the_Caliphate

Well, wasn't that peaceful and equal as it seems:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_Granada_massacre

[Stramash]

CorDoba is the name of a Spanish city conquered by Muslims - the inference being that they would name the building after a military victory over the Spanish Christians.

Rather than celebrating a victory, do you not think it may be in recognition that Cordoba and Andalusia under Muslim rule was a centre of cultural and economic prosperity, as well as an example of tolerance in allowing different religions to live side by side?

"María Rosa Menocal, a specialist in Iberian literature, has argued that "tolerance was an inherent aspect of Andalusian society". In her view, the Jewish and Christian dhimmis living under the Caliphate, while allowed fewer rights than Muslims, were much better off than in other parts of Christian Europe. Will Durant said in his book The Story of Civilization: “Moslems seem to have been better gentlemen than their Christian peers; they kept their word more frequently, showed more mercy to the defeated, and were seldom guilty of the brutality as marked the Christian capture of Jerusalem in 1099."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus#Non-Muslims_under_the_Caliphate

Well, wasn't that peaceful and equal as it seems:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_Granada_massacre

They were MORE tolerant and LESS barbaric than the majority of the 'Christian' kingdoms around that period and before;

massacre of Muslims AND Jews by the Crusaders in 1099

In 777 , Charlemagne, a devout Christian, after conquering the Saxon rebels, gave them a choice between baptism and execution. When they refused to convert, he had 4500 of them beheaded in one morning.

In the fourth century, Emporor Constantine, the first Roman Emperor to become a Christian, had over 3000 Christians executed because their interpretation of the Bible did not agree with his. That is more than the number of Christians who died at the hands of the Romans during the well known 1st century "Christians to the lions" persecutions.

Queen Isabella, famous for sending Columbus to the New World in 1492, was well known also for her 'Spanish Inquisition', the gruesome torture and murder of tens of thousands of Spanish Jews, Muslims, homosexuals, people who read or wrote, uppity women, and anyone else not up to the Queen's strict standards. Isabella was a champion of the faith, piously congratulating herself as her victims writhed to their deaths in the flames and the many other ingenious methods of torture invented by her inquisitors.

In the 12th and 13th centuries, the Inquisition was born, with Christians killing Christians, during what was known as the Albigensian heresies. Hundreds of thousands of people died because their Christianity did not agree with official dogma. This adds to the irony of murder in the name of Christ, when the majority of victims of the early inquisitions were themselves Christians.

English Catholics suffered horribly under Protestant regimes. American historian William T. Walsh writes: "In Britain, 30,000 went to the stake for witchcraft; in Protestant Germany, the figure was 100,000" (, p. 275). In Scotland, too, alleged witches were cruelly put to death. Karl Keating quotes from the : "It is well-known that belief in the justice of punishing heresy with death was so common among the 16th-century Reformers-Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, and their adherents-that we may say their toleration began where their power ended" (C.E., s.v., "Inquisition," 8:35).

[DANNO]

If any of you are interested in the principles and People and Issues involved in the NYC "Center " ...do a little home work (frankly 13 hours the last two days and I am not looking it up for ya ) --there is even alittle info on the Jewish Center you propose Dr....

go into CBS.com ...somewhere in "60 minutes" say 3-6 weeks ago ... broadcasted once a week, interviews with the native New Yorker who heads the project and (at that time the first interview) with the Imam heading up the religious connection to the project...YOU remember the same Imam the US gov't has asked to be an envoy internationally on behalf of better US- Muslim understanding, dating back to 2002 through today...

then some of you off-shore scholars can consider your perspectives :wink:

BTW ....Dr LOW....nope you're wrong ...Ground Zero is where the two towers of the Trade Center stood.... not anywhere shrapnel and debris scattered...that was proposed by some of the "Center's" opponents as a somewhat clever ruse......since one of the aircraft landing gear "flew the 2 blocks from Ground Zero and hit the building that is to be demoed for this project.... anything touched ...haha...hardly sir

But we diverge..

.let's talk more about the sign and Moobs and Unny and Twats! :twisted:

[CiaranM]

opposite ?? opposite ??? geeeezzzz !!!! :roll: :roll:

must be nearly as bad as building a christian church in a predominately muslim area like say ..... Nazareth !!! :roll:

It's not opposite ???

that's right it's not opposite .... but don't let the facts bother u !!!

[CiaranM]

For the record, ANY building of NYC which had a piece of what came down in 9/11 is considered ground zero. The Cordoba project is opposite a ground Zero building and a few blocks away from the main ground zero sites. They could choose a better place. Maybe they should build a Synagogue next to a place where Jews attacked Muslims. Sounds silly doesn't it.

now where the f**k did u pull that load of bollocks from ?? from anything i've seen ground zero was where the twin towers once stood .. maybe u should check out the definition of "ground zero" before u post f**king nonsense like that !!!

You are inconsiderate to millions of Americans feelings. It's isn't your place but you call them c*nts for wanting to keep that place American and not Islamic.

You attack people in the hope of winning arguments with bad language.

It is interesting. It's like LAPD saying we serve to protect whites and bollocks black people. Really it's that dumb.

hmmmmm ..... u really r a dumb ***** !!! i don't believe that so far i've actually expressed an opinion on the building of a "cultural centre" 2 blocks from where ground zero is .... much less called anybody ***** for wanting to keep that area "American" .... but for what it's worth my opinion is .... while not an expert on the american constitution it would appear that building the cultural centre/mosque/multi faith building (or whatever) is protected by said constitution .... however, in my opinion with rights comes certain responsibilities and (IMO) building the centre here hasn't been thought through as to regards the impact on the sensibilities/feelings of the ppl living in that area or realtives of those killed in 9/11. it would appear (or so they claim) that the ppl building the centre did not envisage the reaction it would provoke. my opinion is that they shouldn't build the centre in it's present location (not that my opinion will make much difference), but they now feel that to change location would be seen as giving in to an attack on islam.

You understand very little about Islam. I on the other hand am quite an accomplished scholar of it and have been for years.

u might be a scholar of many things but u don't appear to understand anything !!!

[luckyphil247]

I wish we could build a f*cking Mosque on ground zero... I'd have 100% more respect for the Yanks if they did.

You mean a place where you can grab yourself a girl and f*ck inside the mosque ???

No you mongtard.

Thanks for clarifying you cockhead

[eagle]

Ciaran wrote

u might be a scholar of many things but u don't appear to understand anything !!!

you can lead a horse to water..

[luckyphil247]

opposite ?? opposite ??? geeeezzzz !!!! :roll: :roll:

must be nearly as bad as building a christian church in a predominately muslim area like say ..... Nazareth !!! :roll:

It's not opposite ???

that's right it's not opposite .... but don't let the facts bother u !!!

Well then that changes things doesn't it.

The following opinion;

The sign is almost as disrespectful as as them building a mosque, oops sorry..... a "cultural centre" opposite ground zero :roll:

gets changed to;

The sign in front of the church in Nazareth is more disrespectful than them building a "cultural centre" near ground zero, :roll:

[CiaranM]

opposite ?? opposite ??? geeeezzzz !!!! :roll: :roll:

must be nearly as bad as building a christian church in a predominately muslim area like say ..... Nazareth !!! :roll:

It's not opposite ???

that's right it's not opposite .... but don't let the facts bother u !!!

Well then that changes things doesn't it.

The following opinion;

The sign is almost as disrespectful as as them building a mosque, oops sorry..... a "cultural centre" opposite ground zero :roll:

gets changed to;

The sign in front of the church in Nazareth is more disrespectful than them building a "cultural centre" near ground zero, :roll:

u would have to ask ppl offended by either the sign in Nazareth or the cultural centre their feelings on it .... i'm not personally bothered by either the sign or the "cultural centre", but i also don't think either r a particularly good idea !!!

[drlovelife8]

I wish we could build a f*cking Mosque on ground zero... I'd have 100% more respect for the Yanks if they did.

You mean a place where you can grab yourself a girl and f*ck inside the mosque ???

I would love to **** inside a mosque

[drlovelife8]

For the record, ANY building of NYC which had a piece of what came down in 9/11 is considered ground zero. The Cordoba project is opposite a ground Zero building and a few blocks away from the main ground zero sites. They could choose a better place. Maybe they should build a Synagogue next to a place where Jews attacked Muslims. Sounds silly doesn't it.

now where the f**k did u pull that load of bollocks from ?? from anything i've seen ground zero was where the twin towers once stood .. maybe u should check out the definition of "ground zero" before u post f**king nonsense like that !!!

You are inconsiderate to millions of Americans feelings. It's isn't your place but you call them c*nts for wanting to keep that place American and not Islamic.

You attack people in the hope of winning arguments with bad language.

It is interesting. It's like LAPD saying we serve to protect whites and bollocks black people. Really it's that dumb.

hmmmmm ..... u really r a dumb c*nt !!! i don't believe that so far i've actually expressed an opinion on the building of a "cultural centre" 2 blocks from where ground zero is .... much less called anybody c*nts for wanting to keep that area "American" .... but for what it's worth my opinion is .... while not an expert on the american constitution it would appear that building the cultural centre/mosque/multi faith building (or whatever) is protected by said constitution .... however, in my opinion with rights comes certain responsibilities and (IMO) building the centre here hasn't been thought through as to regards the impact on the sensibilities/feelings of the ppl living in that area or realtives of those killed in 9/11. it would appear (or so they claim) that the ppl building the centre did not envisage the reaction it would provoke. my opinion is that they shouldn't build the centre in it's present location (not that my opinion will make much difference), but they now feel that to change location would be seen as giving in to an attack on islam.

You understand very little about Islam. I on the other hand am quite an accomplished scholar of it and have been for years.

u might be a scholar of many things but u don't appear to understand anything !!!

Attack with crass language as you usually do. Ground zero extends to all buildings hit on that revolting day. Maybe you should get the understanding first.

[beej]

It's isn't your place but you call them c*nts for wanting to keep that place American and not Islamic.

Can't it be both American and Islamic...?

I really don't understand how something Islamic and be deemed un-American?!?!!?

[drlovelife8]

opposite ?? opposite ??? geeeezzzz !!!! :roll: :roll:

must be nearly as bad as building a christian church in a predominately muslim area like say ..... Nazareth !!! :roll:

It's not opposite ???

that's right it's not opposite .... but don't let the facts bother u !!!

Well then that changes things doesn't it.

The following opinion;

The sign is almost as disrespectful as as them building a mosque, oops sorry..... a "cultural centre" opposite ground zero :roll:

gets changed to;

The sign in front of the church in Nazareth is more disrespectful than them building a "cultural centre" near ground zero, :roll:

Indeed . Maybe a tribute to Gengis Khan in Atyrau or a tribute to Japanese soldiers in Nanjing........ Both seem like they would upset people. Just as the carefully re-worded 'cultural centre' is going to. It's a Mosque in disguise.

But all that is neither here nor there. Polls have shown a majority don't want it there. There are plenty of other buildings. Cordoba has a significant meaning and...................... most importantly, it's an interesting sign.

[drlovelife8]

It's isn't your place but you call them c*nts for wanting to keep that place American and not Islamic.

Can't it be both American and Islamic...?

I really don't understand how something Islamic and be deemed un-American?!?!!?

I suggest you goto to a Mosque and ask a respected Imam if the two can work together, bearing in mide America's strive for equality and Islam's strive to control women.... Nice idea, a bit like the Tories and the Liberals sharing government, desperate attempt at making 2 polar opposites 1. How can you be a conservative Liberal? Or a Liberal conservative? Or follow the spirit of the land of the free whilst being ruled by an ideology which embraces the control of women as less than equal to 2 men?

I don't get it.

[beej]

It's isn't your place but you call them c*nts for wanting to keep that place American and not Islamic.

Can't it be both American and Islamic...?

I really don't understand how something Islamic and be deemed un-American?!?!!?

I suggest you goto to a Mosque and ask a respected Imam if the two can work together, bearing in mide America's strive for equality and Islam's strive to control women.... Nice idea, a bit like the Tories and the Liberals sharing government, desperate attempt at making 2 polar opposites 1. How can you be a conservative Liberal? Or a Liberal conservative? Or follow the spirit of the land of the free whilst being ruled by an ideology which embraces the control of women as less than equal to 2 men?

I don't get it.

So you're saying that you can't be truly American if you're a Muslim?

[CiaranM]

Attack with crass language as you usually do. Ground zero extends to all buildings hit on that revolting day. Maybe you should get the understanding first.

please try and provide some credible evidence to back up that !!!

u r the first person i've seen make this claim .... although i see in one of Danno's posts he says opponents of the centre have proposed using this definition .... but it doesn't appear to be have accepted and certainly isn't widely used !!!

Introduction to ground zero definition:

Ground zero is the place above or below an explosion or detonation area. In case if underground explosions, it is the surface above the explosion point and in case of a projectile; it is the target area of the projectile.

ground zero

1. (Military) a point on the surface of land or water at or directly above or below the centre of a nuclear explosion

2. a scene of great devastation

3. (Placename) the name given to the devastated site of the collapsed World Trade Center towers in New York after September 11 2001

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

[CiaranM]

It's isn't your place but you call them c*nts for wanting to keep that place American and not Islamic.

Can't it be both American and Islamic...?

I really don't understand how something Islamic and be deemed un-American?!?!!?

I suggest you goto to a Mosque and ask a respected Imam if the two can work together, bearing in mide America's strive for equality and Islam's strive to control women.... Nice idea, a bit like the Tories and the Liberals sharing government, desperate attempt at making 2 polar opposites 1. How can you be a conservative Liberal? Or a Liberal conservative? Or follow the spirit of the land of the free whilst being ruled by an ideology which embraces the control of women as less than equal to 2 men?

I don't get it.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2008432,00.html

(Ironically, Islam's roots in New York City are in the area around the site of the World Trade Center, and they predate the Twin Towers: in the late 19th century, a portion of lower Manhattan was known as Little Syria and was inhabited by Arab immigrants — Muslims and Christians — from the Ottoman Empire.)

And yet Park51's main movers, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf and his wife Daisy Khan, are actually the kind of Muslim leaders right-wing commentators fantasize about: modernists and moderates who openly condemn the death cult of al-Qaeda and its adherents — ironically, just the kind of "peaceful Muslims" whom Sarah Palin, in her now infamous tweet, asked to "refudiate" the mosque. Rauf is a Sufi, which is Islam's most mystical and accommodating denomination.

The Kuwaiti-born Rauf, 52, is the imam of a mosque in New York City's Tribeca district, has written extensively on Islam and its place in modern society and often argues that American democracy is the embodiment of Islam's ideal society. (One of his books is titled What's Right with Islam Is What's Right with America.) He is a contributor to the Washington Post's On Faith blog, and the stated aim of his organization, the Cordoba Initiative, is "to achieve a tipping point in Muslim-West relations within the next decade, steering the world back to the course of mutual recognition and respect and away from heightened tensions." His Indian-born wife is an architect and a recipient of the Interfaith Center Award for Promoting Peace and Interfaith Understanding.

Since 9/11, Western "experts" have said repeatedly that Muslim leaders who fit Rauf's description should be sought out and empowered to fight the rising tide of extremism. In truth, such figures abound in Muslim lands, even if their work goes unnoticed by armchair pundits elsewhere. Their cause is not helped when someone like Rauf finds himself being excoriated for some perceived reluctance to condemn Hamas and accused of being an extremist himself. If anything, this browbeating of a moderate Muslim empowers the narrative promoted by al-Qaeda: that the West loathes everything about Islam and will stop at nothing to destroy it

don't u just love google/yahoo !!!

[beej]

ahhhh but you see they can't be American because they are Muslims you see.

[beej]

You understand very little about Islam. I on the other hand am quite an accomplished scholar of it and have been for years.

...................................

[CiaranM]

ahhhh but you see they can't be American because they are Muslims you see.

well the native americans thought they owned the land .... but those white peace loving christians soon showed them f**king different !!! :roll: :roll:

[beej]

ahhhh but you see they can't be American because they are Muslims you see.

well the native americans thought they owned the land .... but those white peace loving christians soon showed them f**king different !!! :roll: :roll:

Now Ciaran would you say you're a well versed scholar on American history?