is there a God?

[eagle]

wotever... I kind of think we have only one God even Budhism not belive in God and I'm a buddhist.

Just wondering why we have to seperate to many religions.. we all are going to die anyway..

Its jst a big world is all . Theyare really all the same in their basic believes

yeah same basic believes... maybe like we study in same subject but different text - different teacher.. so it turn out to be not the same..

yep, baby, but it is the life after death what religion is all about. most of the business concepts of religions are based on the fear of their potential clients..my church tax was just the risk premium i paid

Business concepts of religions? Potential clients? what you talking about? Business Adminstration? lolz ..

Satan is the father of religion; the Bible tells us that he comes as an angel of light. The Bible also identifies this world as under his control. That would account for the many religions.

Like he doing research.. which one will be the best eh?

oh well I didnt mean to disrespect the God.. even we god none.. Just my aunt and I believe in the same thing.. we got only one God above... maybe various religions coz of us humankind seperated to be many religion ourselves...?!?

whatever we believes about after death... is it really going to happen? If so its no fair for Budhist... we cant do confession and all sin gone.. actually its doesnt make sense to me about all sin can be gone and then can going to heaven after death ..follow some religions way..

if it true then i can just switch to another religion after made all the worse sins? and then I will be all clean again eh?

shhhhhhh .............. ppl believe religion - politic aint the things we should really talking about..

NIce thoughts and nice to hear from Thai lady on this subject

[babyoiy]

oh my .... ! from NashSuburban's comment

Seems I have heard from some non-budhism .... they were saying Budhism seem to be the most reasonable one. I kind of agree... coz the Buddha always give reasons for any sentence he said. Its all make sense to me.

But seriously.. I always think we're under one God only... Plz noticed Im not saying I believes, I said I think... And the main goal is completely the same... whatever religions you are..

My aunt said to me once.. stop thinking about who create/made up this world and all creature and everything...... coz u will never find out and just gonna get headache

same as about God - religion.. we just can never get exactly answer.. but whatever if we follow our religions way good even not same religion.. we'll always live happily together in this beautiful world.

Eagle : I noticed.. not many Thai girls (in TF) ever comment about Politic - Religion or serious stuff ..... but i love to babble .. haha

PEACE ... u guys dont fight too hard.. im outta here .. i need sleep *yawn*

[eagle]

oh my .... ! from NashSuburban's comment

Seems I have heard from some non-budhism .... they were saying Budhism seem to be the most reasonable one. I kind of agree... coz the Buddha always give reasons for any sentence he said. Its all make sense to me.

But seriously.. I always think we're under one God only... Plz noticed Im not saying I believes, I said I think... And the main goal is completely the same... whatever religions you are..

My aunt said to me once.. stop thinking about who create/made up this world and all creature and everything...... coz u will never find out and just gonna get headache

same as about God - religion.. we just can never get exactly answer.. but whatever if we follow our religions way good even not same religion.. we'll always live happily together in this beautiful world.

Eagle : I noticed.. not many Thai girls (in TF) ever comment about Politic - Religion or serious stuff ..... but i love to babble .. haha

PEACE ... u guys dont fight too hard.. im outta here .. i need sleep *yawn*

NIce to hear you once again !!! and I agree with your sentiments

[scutfargus]

Are you just adding a comment? I think not! You are speaking in platitudes about the supremacy of your version of God and the inferiority of other's beliefs. In my humble opinion, I find neo-conservative Christianity to be lacking depth. But bless you if it fills your heart I have no interest in converting anyone to believe what I believe. The path to God is the path of your own heart.

Quite interesting that when I express my opinion, there is just something wrong with doing that. However, when others express theirs, completely apart from any evidence and often knowledge, that's okay in your book.

I LOVE the new tolerance. It means tolerance for everyone except someone like me.

[johnno]

My aunt said to me once.. stop thinking about who create/made up this world and all creature and everything...... coz u will never find out and just gonna get headache

*yawn*

you have a very wise aunt babyoiy. and i agree about the yawn, not about sleeping but about how boring all this waffle is about who is God, were we created or evolved. who cares anyway? just card carrying members of MENSA and fartygas people, i guess :shock:

[eagle]

My aunt said to me once.. stop thinking about who create/made up this world and all creature and everything...... coz u will never find out and just gonna get headache

*yawn*

you have a very wise aunt babyoiy. and i agree about the yawn, not about sleeping but about how boring all this waffle is about who is God, were we created or evolved. who cares anyway? just card carrying members of MENSA and fartygas people, i guess :shock:

I think real mensa folks have lots more deeper things to talk about

[scutfargus]

and you believe al that of course , so who did the writing God or a man ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Both, actually. We have the written Word of God and the Living Word of God, and they are images of one another. Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man. The Bible was written by men as they were carried by the Holy Spirit. They retained their vocabulary, their writing styles, their intellect level, and yet wrote the very words of God.

Right now I am working on a paper about Jesus Christ being found in the Old Testament. I'm on pg. 14 and I am not even half way done. The entire Bible speaks of Jesus, from beginning to end. He is in the first verse and in the final verse of the Bible, and many times in between. The cross is more accurately described in Isa. 53 and Psalm 22 (both Old Testament books) than in any of the 4 gospels.

The message from beginning to end is the same. All the way back to Adam, who had to slay an innocent animal in order to cover himself ("cover" in the Hebrew is the same word as "atonement"), and all the way to our time, where we believe in Jesus Christ and trust what He did on the cross to be efficacious for us. It is all about the same man, from beginning to end.

Psa 22:1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from helping me, and from the words of my groaning?

Psa 22:2 My God, I cry in the daytime, but you don't answer; In the night season, and am not silent.

Psa 22:3 But you are holy, You who inhabit the praises of Israel.

Psa 22:4 Our fathers trusted in you. They trusted, and you delivered them.

Psa 22:5 They cried to you, and were delivered. They trusted in you, and were not disappointed.

Psa 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; A reproach of men, and despised by the people.

Psa 22:7 All those who see me mock me. They insult me with their lips. They shake their heads, saying,

Psa 22:8 "He trusts in Yahweh; Let him deliver him; Let him rescue him, since he delights in him."

Psa 22:9 But you brought me out of the womb. You made me trust at my mother's breasts.

Psa 22:10 I was thrown on you from my mother's womb. You are my God since my mother bore me.

Psa 22:11 Don't be far from me, for trouble is near. For there is none to help.

Psa 22:12 Many bulls have surrounded me. Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me.

Psa 22:13 They open their mouths wide against me, Lions tearing prey and roaring.

Psa 22:14 I am poured out like water. All my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax; It is melted within me.

Psa 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd. My tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth. You have brought me into the dust of death.

Psa 22:16 For dogs have surrounded me. A company of evil-doers have enclosed me. They pierced my hands and my feet.

Psa 22:17 I can count all of my bones. They look and stare at me.

Psa 22:18 They divide my garments among them. They cast lots for my clothing.

Psa 22:19 But don't be far off, Yahweh. You are my help: hurry to help me.

Have you ever read an account of the crucifixion in the New Testament? This was written 1000 years before it happened.

My offer to send you a free book which covers these kinds of issues in great detail is an open offer. Just email me personally, and I'll send you a copy.

[eagle]

and you believe al that of course , so who did the writing God or a man ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Both, actually. We have the written Word of God and the Living Word of God, and they are images of one another. Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man. The Bible was written by men as they were carried by the Holy Spirit. They retained their vocabulary, their writing styles, their intellect level, and yet wrote the very words of God.

Right now I am working on a paper about Jesus Christ being found in the Old Testament. I'm on pg. 14 and I am not even half way done. The entire Bible speaks of Jesus, from beginning to end. He is in the first verse and in the final verse of the Bible, and many times in between. The cross is more accurately described in Isa. 53 and Psalm 22 (both Old Testament books) than in any of the 4 gospels.

The message from beginning to end is the same. All the way back to Adam, who had to slay an innocent animal in order to cover himself ("cover" in the Hebrew is the same word as "atonement"), and all the way to our time, where we believe in Jesus Christ and trust what He did on the cross to be efficacious for us. It is all about the same man, from beginning to end.

Psa 22:1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from helping me, and from the words of my groaning?

Psa 22:2 My God, I cry in the daytime, but you don't answer; In the night season, and am not silent.

Psa 22:3 But you are holy, You who inhabit the praises of Israel.

Psa 22:4 Our fathers trusted in you. They trusted, and you delivered them.

Psa 22:5 They cried to you, and were delivered. They trusted in you, and were not disappointed.

Psa 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; A reproach of men, and despised by the people.

Psa 22:7 All those who see me mock me. They insult me with their lips. They shake their heads, saying,

Psa 22:8 "He trusts in Yahweh; Let him deliver him; Let him rescue him, since he delights in him."

Psa 22:9 But you brought me out of the womb. You made me trust at my mother's breasts.

Psa 22:10 I was thrown on you from my mother's womb. You are my God since my mother bore me.

Psa 22:11 Don't be far from me, for trouble is near. For there is none to help.

Psa 22:12 Many bulls have surrounded me. Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me.

Psa 22:13 They open their mouths wide against me, Lions tearing prey and roaring.

Psa 22:14 I am poured out like water. All my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax; It is melted within me.

Psa 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd. My tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth. You have brought me into the dust of death.

Psa 22:16 For dogs have surrounded me. A company of evil-doers have enclosed me. They pierced my hands and my feet.

Psa 22:17 I can count all of my bones. They look and stare at me.

Psa 22:18 They divide my garments among them. They cast lots for my clothing.

Psa 22:19 But don't be far off, Yahweh. You are my help: hurry to help me.

Have you ever read an account of the crucifixion in the New Testament? This was written 1000 years before it happened.

My offer to send you a free book which covers these kinds of issues in great detail is an open offer. Just email me personally, and I'll send you a copy.

SO god intrusted Man to write for him :shock: Men are numnuts, he should know this he created them. We think only of ourselfs and chase after women except the men who were wanking and writing the bible. It smacks of BS my friend. Keep studying if it works for you. An endless sea of semantics. I wish people would spend as much time and energy on heaing our worlds ecology. I mean for those of us that will stay here after ya all go to heaven.

As i have told my own brother " if all those people who say they are going to heaven are going to be there I don't want to go. I will stay here with my friends", peace

[johnno]

* YAWN * with babyoiy

so where does buhha and other forms of religeon fit in with your thinking?

didn't exist? don't care?

[eagle]

* YAWN * with babyoiy

so where does buhha and other forms of religeon fit in with your thinking?

didn't exist? don't care?

you heathen :twisted:

[johnno]

at least you didn't call me something naughty 8) :shock:

peace on you also feathered one :shock:

[johnno]

oh no, the jackbooted ones have arrived, got this e-mail from loburt......"Drop the name calling. Stick to the issues."

so people, don't make jokes here anymore, its been banned. or have i been banned?

ok, i'll stick it

[eagle]

oh no, the jackbooted ones have arrived, got this e-mail from loburt......"Drop the name calling. Stick to the issues."

so people, don't make jokes here anymore, its been banned. or have i been banned?

ok, i'll stick it

I know you didn;t mean me but your still a heathen ainlt we all :twisted:

[Loburt]

Moderator Warning

Religion and Philosophy is a potentially volatile forum with threads that tend to be controversial. People who post here tend to have deep-seated feelings and opinions.

You can attack someone's opinion all you want, but you can not attack them personally.

That includes name calling, or making fun of people's names.

Stick to the issues.

[eagle]

Moderator Warning

Religion and Philosophy is a potentially volatile forum with threads that tend to be controversial. People who post here tend to have deep-seated feelings and opinions.

You can attack someone's opinion all you want, but you can not attack them personally.

That includes name calling, or making fun of people's names.

Stick to the issues.

hey you too!!! that had nothing to do with the topic at hand

[CiaranM]

Moderator Warning

Religion and Philosophy is a potentially volatile forum with threads that tend to be controversial. People who post here tend to have deep-seated feelings and opinions.

You can attack someone's opinion all you want, but you can not attack them personally.

That includes name calling, or making fun of people's names.

Stick to the issues.

well that f**ked up my intended post !!!

[CiaranM]

Jesus Christ rose from the dead. Maybe He knows something about it?

Jesus Christ is God. Maybe He knows something about life and death?

how do U know jesus rose from the dead ?? any scientific proof of this ? or r u basing this on word of mouth from ohhhhhh 2,000 years ago.

who says jesus is god. can u prove this in any way ??

why don't u piss off to some street corner and preach to the winos and hookers and leave us alone.

there is NO evidence to prove god exists and no evidence to prove that jesus was god. if u want to believe that fine, but quit preaching to us and get a f**king life.

that wasn't too bad loburt .... was it ?? originally was going to be a lot f**king worse, believe me !!

[cs3602001]

A god as described in the Bible, Koran, Torah...no.

But each of us has something spiritual inside, if nothing more than to ask, "Why am I the only one who can see through my eyes? I am unique to all other humans on earth because I am ME! And what happens after *I* am the one to die?"

In my view, god comes from within us. He (or she) can be anything we want, but holds the keys to the mysteries of life. Will we ever know, even after death? No one knows.

Agreed!

As we learn more and more about the brain, there is an increasing amount of scientific evidence that shows a biological basis for the belief in god. That is to say (in simple terms), people have something "spiritual" in them, that aids the generation of there being "something more than this reality" / there being a God etc.

This can bounce back and fourth....

Experiments have been carried out on individuals of different religious backgrounds and beliefs by passing a magnetic field through a certain part of the brain, this producing a "spiritual experience" in a high percentage of the sample group. Each "experience" was specific to the religious beliefs taught to that individual when growing up etc....

PET Scans have also been carried out on Tibetan Monks during deep meditation with some interesting results too.

After all is said and done the question then arises why does such an area of the brain exist at all?

[Loburt]

that wasn't too bad loburt .... was it ?? originally was going to be a lot f**king worse, believe me !!

I do believe you, Ciaran, and yes you are still in bounds. Play on!

[CiaranM]

i would like scutfargus to answer a couple of very simple questions ..

1. does he believe u must be a christian to get to heaven ?

2. does he believe all non-christians go to hell ?

i don't care what god, jesus or the bible says, just two simple answers to two simple questions.

[Loburt]

bibble?

[Tinian]

We have 4 different men who wrote a history of Jesus Christ. 2 were eyewitnesses and 2 were closely associated with eyewitnesses. We have manuscripts going back to within 100 years of when they wrote their words. We have other writers of that general era who quote from the manuscripts, verifying by these quotes that the words we read in the Bible are the original words. And we have over 24,000 ancient manuscripts and portions of manuscripts of the New Testament.

There is no historical event over 400 years ago which comes even close to this kind of a witness. I realize that the numbers I posted here are just numbers to you, and I don't know that you even begin to appreciate how strongly these authetnicate the historical documents that we carry around and call the Bible.

Most of the history which we know that is over 400 years is based upon an eyewitness or someone once removed from an eyewitness. Usually we have a handful of manuscripts at best, and sometimes these are written hundreds of years later.

Let me give you a couple of examples. We have 10 copies of a manuscript written by Caesar from the same time period and these are dated 1000 years after he wrote down his words. Pliny the younger was a historian from that time period. We have 7 manuscripts and they are dated 750 years after he wrote. Do you need another ten examples, or do you get the idea?

There is no ancient book, writing, manuscript which even comes close to the Bible when it comes to verifying what was written. So, we have 4 witnesses, a ton of manuscripts, and a very short interval between our oldest manuscript and copies which we actually have. So, I am going to believe these more than I believe some contemporary writer, 2000 years removed from the fact. The historical documents even from the standpoint of simple history so far outweigh some person's opinion which disagrees with them as to almost be inarguable (is that a word?).

People choose to believe the most bizarre things. That Divinci code, a painter, over a thousand years removed from what he paints, and people look for hidden meaning and clues in what he painted as if that means something (well, the book is fiction, but some take it seriously). However, there is no historical witness like the Bible. You may not like it and you may not agree with it. God gives you free will here. But your choices are also your responsibility.

.

I've spent a fair amount of time discussing the issue of the 'historical jesus' with people that have studied theology at undergraduate and graduate/doctorate level at university. They all seem pretty clear on the fact that the quest to unearth a historical jesus in the bible is now generally deemed as a lost cause in academic circles. No doubt some of the new testament may reflect actual words or events in Jesus' life, but the criteria to determine which bits do and which bits don't are full of landmines. It often ends up being based around subjective opinions as to what one would WANT Jesus to have said and emphasising those bits. And surely you would not assert that EVERYTHING in the gospels is completely pure history? Or would you?

(This in no way, however, undermines the validity of whether Christian values are 'true' or not; it's solely about whether we can discover a historical jesus in the bible - two utterly separate things. Often people get very worked up because they assume that if one says we can't say much about jesus FROM A HISTORICAL POINT OF VIEW. this therefore entails an attack on christianity - the two are not at all the same thing.)

Importantly, one has to accept that historical veracity probably wasn't high on the list of priorities for the authors that composed the various parts of the new testament. As in nearly all religious literature of that period, narrative and hagiography play a massive role - that doesn't mean that they don't spell out spiritual truths (in fact, some might argue that the narrative genre actually highlights religious truths better than a factual document), but it does mean that a lot of the time we have to take off our historian's hats and accept that we're dealing with a genre in which questions of history are not always relevant. (In fact, Buddhism has a very similar problem with the life of the Buddha in the Pali canon and the extent to which we can unearth a historical Buddha.)

This reflects the academic situation in Britain, and I believe in Europe generally. I don't know if it reflects the academic situation in America. Are these the views of cynics? Do you see this as a temporary academic trend (though it's been around for a good couple of decades now and shows no signs of disappearing....)?

[robbie36]

A god as described in the Bible, Koran, Torah...no.

But each of us has something spiritual inside, if nothing more than to ask, "Why am I the only one who can see through my eyes? I am unique to all other humans on earth because I am ME! And what happens after *I* am the one to die?"

As always you talk a lot of sense.

Atheists believe that humans including *I* share 2 things along with every other living creature on this earth - namely that we reproduce and we die. We cannot predict the future and we may be wrong but it seems to be a good working hypothesis.

Now people are free to believe whatever they see fit but what atheists tend to find particularly galling is that the vast majority of the world's population (say 95% or more) is indoctrinated from birth into believing in life ater death and that actions taken in this life will somehow determine what happens in your next life. As far as I know this forms the basis for all organised religions.

And the problem with this indoctrination is that it leads stupid people to do stupid things (such as plough planes into the WTC) simply on the basis that they will be rewarded in the next life by their particular 'God'.

PS. I am glad Scarfartus is on the God side of this debate - it might well convert a few agnostics to atheism.

[robbie36]

What a load of patronising nonsense.Vast majority of athiests simply dont believe..you cant just lump them all into one rather sad negative anti-religious group.Most non believers couldnt give a toss ,they simply live and let live and just get on with their lives:erm ever considered doing the same? :wink:

ps Mr "i'm so concerned about Africa" man...Haven't you got better things do to like being in Niger helping out the dying kids?

Ouch!! Point taken...

Yes most atheists dont give a toss.

And yes I am anti organised religion (which most atheists are not)

But I certainly dont take a "sad negative anti-religious' view of life. Quite the opposite. If humanity can look beyond religion there are many new horizons. Unfortunately I feel that religous beliefs are blocking their progress.

[robbie36]

You mean like how we're not allowed to clone people?

Well... yes there's a start...