is there a God?

[scutfargus]

What most people do is simply make God in their own image and then worship that image--that's what is going on when you worship the "god inside you." That is both self-worship and idolatry.

Does this mean that you are a unitarian, or that you disbelieve the Christian concept of the trinity, and therefore doubt the existence of the holy ghost?

And to be really picky, if god made man in his own image, how could self-worship be idolatry? Vanity, perhaps; but not idolatry.

Since you don't seem to favor others' use of secondary sources (such as the Internet), perhaps you can attempt to answer these questions in your own words and without the benefit of quotes from the bible.

It is quite a different thing for God to make man in His shadow image and for us to make God in our image. God made us perfect, but with freewill. We choose to disobey Him. That is the idea behind fallen man. When we make God in our image, we are often attributing to God characteristics which He does not have (like, for instance, relative righteousness).

I believe in the Trinity.

Idolatry is worshiping someone or something other than God. It might be money, it might be Buddha, it might be yourself.

[Loburt]

As Ciaran correctly pointed out, the earliest documents pertaining to Jesus date at leas 100 years after his death (and there is no hard evidence, no matter what you've written in earlier posts -- so don't say we didn't read what you wrote -- to support the idea any of them were written earlier than that) so the the historical documents you refer to are in fact NOT of Jesus's time.

Furthermore, of the hundreds of gospels discovered in recent decades that were not included in the Bible, some are clearly fictional and ludicrous.

So yes, it is very possible that Ciaran's opinions 2000 years after Jesus's death are more accurate and truthful than some of the earliest documents pertaining to Jesus.

The written documents come from oral tradition.

Have you ever seen what happens when you put a chain of people in a room and someone whispers something in someone's ear and it is then passed down the chain in whispers?

What the last person repeats is always very different than what the first person said.

So it's quite ludicrous to think that what was written 100 years after Jesus's death contains accurate quotes of what he said during his life.

Scutfargas, do you have a job? Or do you sit in your cabin all day filling up websites with mindless evangelical drivel tyring to convince anyone who doesn't see it your way that they are going to burn in hell?

Only someone on SSI could afford to spend that much time doing what your doing. After all, you're the one who mentioned you were on meds.

[SgtPepper]

Ok people simmer down please.

I just want to sdt the record straight. I AM GOD. THATS RIGHT, I MADE TH UNIVRSE AND DETRMINE ALL THE LAWS OF PHYSICS IN THE UNIVERSE.

WHAT I SAY AND DO IS INFALLABLE AND I JUST WANT TO LET TH DOUBTERS AMONG YOU KNOW THIS.

UP UNTIL NOW I HAVE BEEN IN DISGUISE AND USED ANOTHER IDENTITY FROM AN ALBUM RELEASED IN THE SIXTIES

MY MESSAGE TO VERYONE IS THAT YOU ARE ALL GOING TO HEAVEN! THERE IS NO SECOND CLASS CITIZENS/SOULD IN MY HOUSE SO EVEN IF YOU BELIEVED IN ANY OTHER MAD STUFF IT IS NO PROBLEM, YOU ARE ALL STILL GOING TO BE FORGIVEN AND EVERYTHING WILL TURN OUT OK.

WELL I HAVE TO GO NOW BUT I JUST WANT TO REMOVE ANY DOUBT AMONG SOME PEOPLE WHO HAD TH NERVE TO SAY I DID NOT EXSIST.

CLEARLY THAT IS NOT THE CASE AND I AM VERY MUCH IN CHARGE OF THE WHOLE CHABANG

YOURS FAITHFULLY]

GOD

OH DONT MIND THE BAD SPELLLING OR TYPOS! THAT IS A LITTLE QUIRK I LIKE TO USE TO THROW PEOPLE OFF

[SiamHotel]

yeah SgtPepper..... liiike your nick jing jing

-- Jupiter

> aka 8)

[WiCKeDBiRD]

and so is the -Toothfairy- 8) :wink:

I have loads of proofs too that she is existing

< for instance... loads of times... there were money under my pillow ... :shock:>

But that money always "appeared" after a night time visitor had departed in the morning??? :twisted:

Back to topic please.

Mmmmm Naaahhh....

There were always money under my pillow when he was at home and when he was away ... It was not from Him.... obviously.

It was from the -Toothfairy- .... really. :shock:

[WiCKeDBiRD]

People are free to believe what they want but dont ask me to respect those beliefs.

There you go..... Nothing more to say..... :idea:

[WiCKeDBiRD]

Ya MONEY .

Awww yes the true God of western civilization brought to you by the Goddesss from Manhatton :wink:

8) :wink:

[WiCKeDBiRD]

Inext topic:the woes of capitalism

[johnno]

As Ciaran correctly pointed out, the earliest documents pertaining to Jesus date at leas 100 years after his death (and there is no hard evidence, no matter what you've written in earlier posts -- so don't say we didn't read what you wrote -- to support the idea any of them were written earlier than that) so the the historical documents you refer to are in fact NOT of Jesus's time.

Furthermore, of the hundreds of gospels discovered in recent decades that were not included in the Bible, some are clearly fictional and ludicrous.

So yes, it is very possible that Ciaran's opinions 2000 years after Jesus's death are more accurate and truthful than some of the earliest documents pertaining to Jesus.

The written documents come from oral tradition.

Have you ever seen what happens when you put a chain of people in a room and someone whispers something in someone's ear and it is then passed down the chain in whispers?

What the last person repeats is always very different than what the first person said.

So it's quite ludicrous to think that what was written 100 years after Jesus's death contains accurate quotes of what he said during his life.

Scutfargas, do you have a job? Or do you sit in your cabin all day filling up websites with mindless evangelical drivel tyring to convince anyone who doesn't see it your way that they are going to burn in hell?

Only someone on SSI could afford to spend that much time doing what your doing. After all, you're the one who mentioned you were on meds.

wow loburt, i am extremely impressed. and i am not easily impressed. misty is the only other person who has impressed me here in TF and not for the same reasons as i am impressed by your writing. she has different things that impress me, but i am impressed.

oh, did i say that i was impressed by what you wrote? but you have a bit to go before you impress me thet same as misty has impressed me. did i say that misty has different things that impress me, but i am equally impressed by what you wrote.

did i say that misty also impresses me but for diff.........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[melasinsh]

is there a God?

errmmm....after 17 pages of ranting and raving, I still have a question....is there a God or not?

2 possible answers

1. no

2.yes, (...and i assume you have proof)

I thought perhaps after 17 pages...we all deserve an answer to the original question, right?

It's definitely number 3. Maybe

[scutfargus]

As Ciaran correctly pointed out, the earliest documents pertaining to Jesus date at leas 100 years after his death (and there is no hard evidence, no matter what you've written in earlier posts -- so don't say we didn't read what you wrote -- to support the idea any of them were written earlier than that) so the the historical documents you refer to are in fact NOT of Jesus's time.

Some of the manuscripts of the Chester Beatty Papyri go back to the 2nd century. Some of the manuscripts fragments from the Oxyrhynchus Payrus manuscripts go back to the 2nd century. Are you claiming this means that they were written in the 2nd century AD? Are you kidding me?

So the writings of Caesar: are you going to tell me he wrote in 900 AD? You realize, these are the earliest manuscripts that we have written by Caesar. I guess he must be a made up person?

How about Plato? Did he write in 900 AD? This is the earliest manuscripts of Plato's writings that we have.

Okay, how about Pliny the Younger, an historian from the first century--your reasoning tells me that he must have written circa 850 AD .

Do you know anything at all about ancient manuscripts? Did you not realize that the New Testament Bible is the only ancient manuscript that we have today written within 100 years of the original writing? The earliest fragment from the New Testament is dated circa 125 AD. Do you even have a clue as to how phenomenal that is? Our NT manuscripts are actually more accurate than writings of Shakespear (sure you doubt me on this and when I lay it out for you some time, you will still doubt me--not because I am wrong, but because you do not want to believe what I tell you).

Now, if you want to claim that the NT writings were all first written after the first century, despite all the evidence to the contrary, go right ahead. If the only way you can support your views is to distort the historic evidence and the manuscripts which we have then who am I to stand in your way?

You would be disagreeing with Will Durant, probably the greatest ancient historian of this past century (and who was not a Christian). You'd be disagreeing with Cecil Adams, who, if anything, is anti-Christian. As I have said before, revisionist history is the new religion.

Furthermore, of the hundreds of gospels discovered in recent decades that were not included in the Bible, some are clearly fictional and ludicrous.

There are not hundreds and the ones that are around, which were written hundreds of years after the fact, are not included in the Bible for the exact reason that you just stated: they are clearly fictional and ludicrous.

So yes, it is very possible that Ciaran's opinions 2000 years after Jesus's death are more accurate and truthful than some of the earliest documents pertaining to Jesus.

And I am closed minded and illogical. Let me know when Ciaran opens the doors of his church, because obviously he knows more than any historian or theologian who has ever lived. So, should I believe in Ciaran for eternal life as well?

The written documents come from oral tradition.

You need to get your facts straight. This is a theory about the Old Testament. No one, except for you, thinks the New Testament is based on an oral tradition. There was all kinds of writing which took place in the 1st century. Libraries go way back before then.

So it's quite ludicrous to think that what was written 100 years after Jesus's death contains accurate quotes of what he said during his life.

You are drawing a conclusion from made-up facts.

Scutfargas, do you have a job? Or do you sit in your cabin all day filling up websites with mindless evangelical drivel tyring to convince anyone who doesn't see it your way that they are going to burn in hell?

What difference does my personal life make? You are making up historical facts, you are making claims about manuscripts that no serious historian believes; and yet, what I say is drivel. If you need to make up facts, so you can believe what you want to believe, that is fine with me. But sometime, you should investigate what Jesus said. "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the father except through Me."

Only someone on SSI could afford to spend that much time doing what your doing. After all, you're the one who mentioned you were on meds.

That was a joke, son.

Hey, where is my cheerleading squad?

[SiamHotel]

Ya MONEY .

.... haven't I told ya long b4 innocent 'blasphemous' MeL ???

[SiamHotel]

HolY 5h!t :!:

-- Donald Trump

8)

[scutfargus]

is there a God?

errmmm....after 17 pages of ranting and raving, I still have a question....is there a God or not?

2 possible answers

1. no

2.yes, (...and i assume you have proof)

I thought perhaps after 17 pages...we all deserve an answer to the original question, right?

Joh 14:8 Philip said to Jesus, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."

Joh 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you such a long time and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father. And how do you say, Show us the Father?"

Act 1:1 Truly, O Theophilus, I made the first report as to all things that Jesus began both to do and teach

Act 1:2 until the day He was taken up, having given directions to the apostles whom He chose, through the Holy Spirit;

Act 1:3 to whom He also presented Himself living after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them through forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.

It is up to you whether you believe the words of Jesus or not. If you want to spend eternity with Jesus, then trust in Him. If you want to spend eternity with Ciaran, then believe in him. Jesus said "I have come as a Light into the world, so that whoever believes on Me should not remain in darkness" (John 12:46)

And if anyone wants to call that ranting, then please do not attribute it to me, but to Jesus.

[scutfargus]

wow loburt, i am extremely impressed. and i am not easily impressed. ........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Did you put on a cheerleading outfit before you wrote this?

[johnno]

hey scutfargus, old chap (is that polite enough loburt?) can you explain something to poor dumb non-mensa member me please?

question.... how come, in a place such as jerusalem and other places mentioned in the bible, all Jesus's friends and acquantances all have lovely english names (joseph, james, john, paul, matthew, mary etc) and others don't? romans have roman names, arabs have arab names. how come in a place that is populated by arabs, romans etc, these english named people existed and are named such?

end of question.

I appreciate an easy question, J. We have all of these sorts of names because of the power of the King James Version. This was the first well-accepted translation of the Bible (it was not accepted at first, but it became accepted). The KJV stood as the English version of Scripture for nearly 400 years. There are fundamentalist pastors who, up until a decade ago, campaigned heavily for universal acceptance of the KJV (they did not like all these new-fangled English versions which came out). In the Greek and the Hebrew, there is actually not a counterpart for our letter j. So, we know all of those names in the English, but in the Greek and Hebrew, they sound very different. But the power of the KJV is so great that, even in Jewish Bible, the Tanakh (an excellent OT translation) we still find the name Joshua, for instance, rather than Yehoshua (pronounced possibly yhoh-SHOE-ah).

ahhhhhh, correct me if i am wrong but are you saying that one of the churchs has embellished the story of Jesus and God (the bible in other words) and given these good people (his apostles and mary, or maybe her real name was something like Fatima, which means "woman who abstains", she was a virgin, afterall) english names? it has always amused me how the story of Jesus, which took place in the arab peninsula, comes to name all the people he was associated with wonderful english names. what happened to the arab names?

[zeusbheld]

is there a God?

errmmm....after 17 pages of ranting and raving, I still have a question....is there a God or not?

2 possible answers

1. no

2.yes, (...and i assume you have proof)

I thought perhaps after 17 pages...we all deserve an answer to the original question, right?

dont forget (3) maybe.

the careful observer will note that i, even i, the originator of this thread, have not commented. there's a reason for that. i dont expect a convincing answer... i just wanted to put it all in one place, for your convenience, gentle reader...

zbh

the b is for benevolent.

[johnno]

after all, the gospel according to saint abdullah doesn't have quite the same ring (to an english speaking ear) as the gospel according to matthew, does it?

[DJTX]

Is there a God? I'd venture to say that nobody alive today really knows for sure. We can believe in God or not - obviously that's a personal decision.

I for one don't know. But come to think of it - I'm not taking any chances. Just in case, when that day comes and I'm standing in front of him, her, or whomever - YES THERE IS A GOD

[eagle]

is there a God?

errmmm....after 17 pages of ranting and raving, I still have a question....is there a God or not?

2 possible answers

1. no

2.yes, (...and i assume you have proof)

I thought perhaps after 17 pages...we all deserve an answer to the original question, right?

Joh 14:8 Philip said to Jesus, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."

Joh 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you such a long time and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father. And how do you say, Show us the Father?"

Act 1:1 Truly, O Theophilus, I made the first report as to all things that Jesus began both to do and teach

Act 1:2 until the day He was taken up, having given directions to the apostles whom He chose, through the Holy Spirit;

Act 1:3 to whom He also presented Himself living after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them through forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.

It is up to you whether you believe the words of Jesus or not. If you want to spend eternity with Jesus, then trust in Him. If you want to spend eternity with Ciaran, then believe in him. Jesus said "I have come as a Light into the world, so that whoever believes on Me should not remain in darkness" (John 12:46)

And if anyone wants to call that ranting, then please do not attribute it to me, but to Jesus.

i'm pretty sure Jesus isn't a member on TF...so i have no choice but to attribute it to you...sorry....

Yes I have to agree barbie. Jesus I feel was a charismatic person and a great teacher and sutfargus has been a avid quoter of verses. Personally I dont want to spend eternity with Jesus, that would be gay and i am straight.

If sutfargus you find a female saviour for me email me immediately :wink:

[scutfargus]

hey scutfargus, old chap (is that polite enough loburt?) can you explain something to poor dumb non-mensa member me please?

question.... how come, in a place such as jerusalem and other places mentioned in the bible, all Jesus's friends and acquantances all have lovely english names (joseph, james, john, paul, matthew, mary etc) and others don't? romans have roman names, arabs have arab names. how come in a place that is populated by arabs, romans etc, these english named people existed and are named such?

end of question.

I appreciate an easy question, J. We have all of these sorts of names because of the power of the King James Version. This was the first well-accepted translation of the Bible (it was not accepted at first, but it became accepted). The KJV stood as the English version of Scripture for nearly 400 years. There are fundamentalist pastors who, up until a decade ago, campaigned heavily for universal acceptance of the KJV (they did not like all these new-fangled English versions which came out). In the Greek and the Hebrew, there is actually not a counterpart for our letter j. So, we know all of those names in the English, but in the Greek and Hebrew, they sound very different. But the power of the KJV is so great that, even in Jewish Bible, the Tanakh (an excellent OT translation) we still find the name Joshua, for instance, rather than Yehoshua (pronounced possibly yhoh-SHOE-ah).

ahhhhhh, correct me if i am wrong but are you saying that one of the churchs has embellished the story of Jesus and God (the bible in other words) and given these good people (his apostles and mary, or maybe her real name was something like Fatima, which means "woman who abstains", she was a virgin, afterall) english names? it has always amused me how the story of Jesus, which took place in the arab peninsula, comes to name all the people he was associated with wonderful english names. what happened to the arab names?

The names were not made up; they were simply transliterated into English from the Greek and the Hebrew. You see the same thing done in the news every single day when they make reference to a world leader outside of the nation that you live in. Why are you trying to read so much into this.

If you need to see the name, then try the Hebrew Names Version. However, I doubt that this is what you are interested in.

[WiCKeDBiRD]

I have something to say... < I do really mean well >

In order to make this thread more interesting...

It would be nice... if you could show some pics <animated pics/cartoons are highly recommended> or any sort of cutie things upon here too.

< Something Cute and Colourful like Barney or Bob the Builder or Winney the Pooh.. >

Only plain texts are so very boring .. you know ?

[Japhrodisiac]

I have something to say... < I do really mean well >

In order to make this thread more interesting...

It would be nice... if you could show some pics <animated pics/cartoons are highly recommended> or any sort of cutie things upon here too.

< Something Cute and Colourful like Barney or Bob the Builder or Winney the Pooh.. >

Only plain texts are so very boring .. you know ?

Wow, you just blew me away babe. This is the single best post that I have read in TF for a long, long time. Mucho respect lovely Riya! Muah!

[DJTX]

Don't know if anyone can answer the question about God. You may believe or you may not - but can you prove? But maybe some of the bible experts here (assuming there are some...) can answer a question. The bible states that the first people were Adam and Eve. And that Adam and Eve had kids - Abel and Cain. According to the bible Cain killed Abel and then went out of Eden and found his wife. If Adam and Eve were the first people and they had two kids - where did Cain's wife come from?

[Japhrodisiac]

I have something to say... < I do really mean well >

In order to make this thread more interesting...

It would be nice... if you could show some pics <animated pics/cartoons are highly recommended> or any sort of cutie things upon here too.

< Something Cute and Colourful like Barney or Bob the Builder or Winney the Pooh.. >

Only plain texts are so very boring .. you know ?