Conspiracy vs Truth

[Goodghost]

Anyone promoting poorly researched conspiracy theories adds to the confusion and makes those who disagree with the official reupublican line look like idiots.

WHAT HE SAID.

keep up the work, you're bush's new best friend, goodghost.

First of all, there is no "official Republican line." And yes, I have made your posts look idiotic. It's very easy to make hyper-left wing posts look stupid. Yours were no exception.

As for conspiracy theorists being Bush's "best friends," I recall a number of occasions when our fair president urged against buying into this sort of nonsense. What else can the man do? If you choose to believe it, so be it. In the internet age, everyone has a stage. Every nutcase, lunatic, wannabe terrorist sympathiser, etc. has a platform to yell from. The key is to ignore them. If you acknowledge them, you justify their existance. It doesn't matter if you pick apart their argument and point to obvious flaws in their "evidence," if it exists. By engaging these types, you are giving them what they want: attention. That it is negative attention has no relevance. Has anyone bothered to look at the conspiracy therorist's profile? He's a clueless 26 year old kid living in BKK. He's too young to know which side is up. Just ignore his posts. He'll go away.

From 'someones' profile...

Action cures fear. This I have learned. I sucked at golf and still do. But I have gotten better. Much better. But it doesn't matter. When I have the chance, I play and enjoy it regardless. When I forgot how to attach the regulator (breathing lines) to the Scuba tank and buoyancy control device (BCD), I decided to become a Divemaster and never have the problem again. Every time I get my ass handed to me (which is all the time) in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu class, I resolve to go back again; injury or no injury. After 12+ years, I get up to be in the office before the stock market opens (6:30 AM California time) and make an effort to generate business even though I still hate getting up early. I was asked to do some movie extra work last year. Now, 12 acting classes and counting, numerous auditions, background works and a nationally released dogfood box with my picture on it, I intend to headline or support (speak) in a movie or commercial. It should be interesting....and I don't care how long it takes if ever.

Yeah... look who's talking...you dog food box guy. (& a mean guy at that too)

Clueless?... Hardly.

He'll go away? You or me? ...ME?... Doubt it.

At least I don't admit on a personal profile on the internet that I suck at anything. Golf sucker. (Who incidently lives in AMERICA)

"Our fair President" YOUR President. Not mine. Your liability. For you, your kids & your grandkids.

[zeusbheld]

First of all, there is no "official Republican line." There is a party platform and principles from which members stray from time to time.

that's obvious from seeing mccain et al veer away from bush on the permissibility of torture.

The Florida Congressional Representative who just resigned is the latest example. And yes, I have made your posts look idiotic. It's very easy to make hyper-left wing posts look stupid. Yours were no exception.

if you're talking to me, you've succeeded mainly in making yourself look manipulative and evasive..

you're the guy who 'proved' there were 'just as many experts who said global warming wasn't caused by humans' by posting a paper that debunks the alleged consensus among scientists on global warming by demonstrating that while there was indeed a consensus, some of the scientists it polled were lukewarm on it. this was what YOUR PROOF said, did you even read it, or were you spoon fed by some neocon "think tank" site?

you've suceeded in demonstrating that your alleged allegiance to reasoning is bullshit by giving it lip service and then ducking and running when anyone trots out actual facts and figures, however. so i guess if you want to see whose posts you made look stupid, check the mirror, you'll see hiim.

and if you perceive potential mccain voters as ultra-lefty, you're delusional.

As for conspiracy theorists being Bush's "best friends," I recall a number of occasions when our fair president urged against buying into this sort of nonsense. What else can the man do? If you choose to believe it, so be it. In the internet age, everyone has a stage. Every nutcase, lunatic, wannabe terrorist sympathiser, etc. has a platform to yell from. The key is to ignore them. If you acknowledge them, you justify their existance.

you realize you just contradicted yourself don't you? if the president of the united states urged against buying into this sort of nonsense he basically isn't ignoring them, he's calling attention to them.

It doesn't matter if you pick apart their argument and point to obvious flaws in their "evidence," if it exists. By engaging these types, you are giving them what they want: attention. That it is negative attention has no relevance. Has anyone bothered to look at the conspiracy therorist's profile? He's a clueless 26 year old kid living in BKK. He's too young to know which side is up. Just ignore his posts. He'll go away.

that worked really well with the swift boat veterans. kerry was a douche and wouldn't have won anyway.

[zeusbheld]

Anyone promoting poorly researched conspiracy theories adds to the confusion and makes those who disagree with the official reupublican line look like idiots.

WHAT HE SAID.

keep up the work, you're bush's new best friend, goodghost.

First of all, there is no "official Republican line." And yes, I have made your posts look idiotic. It's very easy to make hyper-left wing posts look stupid. Yours were no exception.

As for conspiracy theorists being Bush's "best friends," I recall a number of occasions when our fair president urged against buying into this sort of nonsense. What else can the man do? If you choose to believe it, so be it. In the internet age, everyone has a stage. Every nutcase, lunatic, wannabe terrorist sympathiser, etc. has a platform to yell from. The key is to ignore them. If you acknowledge them, you justify their existance. It doesn't matter if you pick apart their argument and point to obvious flaws in their "evidence," if it exists. By engaging these types, you are giving them what they want: attention. That it is negative attention has no relevance. Has anyone bothered to look at the conspiracy therorist's profile? He's a clueless 26 year old kid living in BKK. He's too young to know which side is up. Just ignore his posts. He'll go away.

From 'someones' profile...

Action cures fear. This I have learned. I sucked at golf and still do. But I have gotten better. Much better. But it doesn't matter. When I have the chance, I play and enjoy it regardless. When I forgot how to attach the regulator (breathing lines) to the Scuba tank and buoyancy control device (BCD), I decided to become a Divemaster and never have the problem again. Every time I get my ass handed to me (which is all the time) in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu class, I resolve to go back again; injury or no injury. After 12+ years, I get up to be in the office before the stock market opens (6:30 AM California time) and make an effort to generate business even though I still hate getting up early. I was asked to do some movie extra work last year. Now, 12 acting classes and counting, numerous auditions, background works and a nationally released dogfood box with my picture on it, I intend to headline or support (speak) in a movie or commercial. It should be interesting....and I don't care how long it takes if ever.

Yeah... look who's talking...you dog food box guy. (& a mean guy at that too)

Clueless?... Hardly.

He'll go away? You or me? ...ME?... Doubt it.

At least I don't admit on a personal profile on the internet that I suck at anything. Golf sucker. (Who incidently lives in AMERICA)

"Our fair President" YOUR President. Not mine. Your liability. For you, your kids & your grandkids.

rhetoric 101: a clear demonstration of the ad hominem fallacy.

his profile and his cameo on a dog food box are irrelevant to his claims, therefore your attack on him is irrelevant. textbook ad hominem. thanks for the demo.

[Goodghost]

You're welcome.

Time for an all new, mother of all cat lover's thread I think : 'What wouldn't you put your face on?

[Simmo_V2.0]

Oh god .. please don't tell me we have a 911 "Troofer" on TF. This is gonna be fun.

[zeusbheld]

wherein vbroker disproves his own point, regarding global warming.

thanks for your arrogant, unfounded claim to have made my posts "look stupid" vbroker, you motivated me to spend 15 minutes (a major time investment by tf standards) making one more post in the 'global warming' thread.

[vbroker]

wherein vbroker disproves his own point, regarding global warming.

thanks for your arrogant, unfounded claim to have made my posts "look stupid" vbroker, you motivated me to spend 15 minutes (a major time investment by tf standards) making one more post in the 'global warming' thread.

Touchy touchy are we? The "dig" wasn't directed at you. I didn't realize you considered yourself "hyper-left wing." Re-read the "offending" post and see if you can figure it out. Look carefully, you'll get it; I promise. Notice quoted TWO different posts by TWO different authors? It appears you were only one. Notice my reply in TWO different paragraghs? Got it now? Fabulous. Please forgive the unintended confusion. BTW, you're off topic with the global warming thing. Unless there is a conspiracy theory as regards global warming. My, my you seem to take this TF forum thing pretty seriously and it appears personally as well. If I reacted as you did to the conspiracy theorist's predictable personal attack I might have developed Carpal Tunnel Syndrome by now. As far as I am concerned, he made me more popular by posting my profile here. Thanks for pointing out the irrelevancy of his post(s) and I say his debunked theories for me. I won't waste any more time doing so.

As for conspiracy theorists being Bush's "best friends," I recall a number of occasions when our fair president urged against buying into this sort of nonsense. What else can the man do? If you choose to believe it, so be it. In the internet age, everyone has a stage. Every nutcase, lunatic, wannabe terrorist sympathiser, etc. has a platform to yell from. The key is to ignore them. If you acknowledge them, you justify their existance.

you realize you just contradicted yourself don't you? if the president of the united states urged against buying into this sort of nonsense he basically isn't ignoring them, he's calling attention to them.

This brings to mind the past fact and perception discussion.

Fact: Bush urges against total gullibility by believing dopey conspiracy theories.

Perception 1: By his action, he has called attention to conspiracy theories and theorists.

Perception 2: In an instant communication world, the president felt the need to address something that 15 years before would have remained in the shadows and found only by those who seek it out.

Conspiracy theories are nothing new; any more than pedophiles are new. Today's lightning fast communication provides everyone with a sounding board for all to see. This means the impressionable are targets/future victims like never before. It also means the people trading in this garbage have unprecedented access to each other and can therefore "sharpen the blade," if you will. The difference between conspiracy theorists and pedophiles is one is to be ignored and laughed at (unless you're President Bush addressing a new phenomenon); the other can't be ignored and should be in jail. Oh, and pity the poor gullible.

[zeusbheld]

wherein vbroker disproves his own point, regarding global warming.

thanks for your arrogant, unfounded claim to have made my posts "look stupid" vbroker, you motivated me to spend 15 minutes (a major time investment by tf standards) making one more post in the 'global warming' thread.

Touchy touchy are we? The "dig" wasn't directed at you. I didn't realize you considered yourself "hyper-left wing."

i found it odd that i might be lumped in with 'hyper left wing' or *any* wing, makes sense then, that was addressed to neo. btw do not mistake bluster and gamesmanship for genuinely taking personal offense.

Re-read the "offending" post and see if you can figure it out. Look carefully, you'll get it; I promise. Notice quoted TWO different posts by TWO different authors? It appears you were only one. Notice my reply in TWO different paragraghs? Got it now? Fabulous. Please forgive the unintended confusion.

no worries, however, you ask me to 'look carefully'--by now you should realize that people don't 'look carefully' on this or most other net forums.

BTW, you're off topic with the global warming thing. Unless there is a conspiracy theory as regards global warming.

i consider 'science has been hijacked by politics and there is no such thing as global warming' a conspiracy theory, so in my universe, it's on topic.

My, my you seem to take this TF forum thing pretty seriously and it appears personally as well.

appearances can be deceiving. as i said, it's mostly bluster and gamesmanship; i consider this TF forum to be a diversion--like watching a soap opera, except it talks back. i dont take things personally unless someone knows details from my real life and posts it.

i do take certain issues quite seriously, mostly science-related ones, and i have a soft spot in my liver for producing bile to direct at 9/11 conspiracies because i lived 2.25 miles from ground zero at the time, talked to many firemen etc, and not once did i hear any of them making the claims that conspiracy theorists claim they do.

If I reacted as you did to the conspiracy theorist's predictable personal attack I might have developed Carpal Tunnel Syndrome by now.

i type a LOT more for work than i do for TF; repetitive stress injuries are usually a matter of poor ergonomics. if you have a proper keyboard tray at the right angle you don't risk carpal tunnel.

As far as I am concerned, he made me more popular by posting my profile here. Thanks for pointing out the irrelevancy of his post(s) and I say his debunked theories for me. I won't waste any more time doing so.

i found his attack to be a very good example of a key concept of rhetoric.

As for conspiracy theorists being Bush's "best friends," I recall a number of occasions when our fair president urged against buying into this sort of nonsense. What else can the man do? If you choose to believe it, so be it. In the internet age, everyone has a stage. Every nutcase, lunatic, wannabe terrorist sympathiser, etc. has a platform to yell from. The key is to ignore them. If you acknowledge them, you justify their existance.

you realize you just contradicted yourself don't you? if the president of the united states urged against buying into this sort of nonsense he basically isn't ignoring them, he's calling attention to them.

This brings to mind the past fact and perception discussion.

Fact: Bush urges against total gullibility by believing dopey conspiracy theories.

Perception 1: By his action, he has called attention to conspiracy theories and theorists.

Perception 2: In an instant communication world, the president felt the need to address something that 15 years before would have remained in the shadows and found only by those who seek it out.

perception 1 is not a perception, it's a fact. if you are the president of the united states and mention something, anything, it goes out to millions of people.

as for perception 2, i tend to agree with that. kerry ignoring the swift boat guys is a prime example of how ignoring conspiracy theories can backfire.

Conspiracy theories are nothing new; any more than pedophiles are new. Today's lightning fast communication provides everyone with a sounding board for all to see. This means the gullible are targets/future victims like never before. The difference between conspiracy theorists and pedophiles is one is to be ignored and laughed at (unless you're President Bush addressing a new phenomenon); the other can't be ignored and should be in jail.

conspiracy theories are a byproduct of how we humans, as a species, are wired.

[eagle]

I'm beginning to think this thread is a consiracy in itself :shock:

[vbroker]

wherein vbroker disproves his own point, regarding global warming.

thanks for your arrogant, unfounded claim to have made my posts "look stupid" vbroker, you motivated me to spend 15 minutes (a major time investment by tf standards) making one more post in the 'global warming' thread.

Touchy touchy are we? The "dig" wasn't directed at you. I didn't realize you considered yourself "hyper-left wing."

i found it odd that i might be lumped in with 'hyper left wing' or *any* wing, makes sense then, that was addressed to neo. btw do not mistake bluster and gamesmanship for genuinely taking personal offense.

So you didn't take it personally when you incorrectly assumed I thought your posts "idiotic" and thereby called your intelligence into question? You could have fooled me with your ballistic launch back into the global warming thread where you "spen(t) 15 minutes" resurrecting a dead horse. And no, I'm not going back there as I am the only one who contributed anything beyond "opinion" pieces to support my argument. That you or anyone else doesn't like what I posted doesn't concern me. How do you justify asking this:

saying that global warming makes hurricanes etc worse is a separate idea from the idea that global warming is accelerated by human activity. it IS controversial and not at all established, along with the vast majority of doomsday effects predicted by various parties.

but to equate the more extreme interpretations of possible consequences with the basic premise that human activity accelerates global warming is tantamount to lying. perhaps you can clarify whether your intended to mislead, or you just don't know what youre' talking about?

against this lame excuse:

no worries, however, you ask me to 'look carefully'--by now you should realize that people don't 'look carefully' on this or most other net forums.

The issue isn't the question. Many of your 8418 posts are so detailed and may I say anal, I find it difficult to believe you've just grouped yourself in with the rest of the TF forum common folk. To answer the question above: I don't know what I'm talking about. Concerning global warming, politics, conspiracy theories, investment banking or anything else for that matter. I'm sure a Forum Moderator or two and many others here will all be in agreement with me now.

[frankenburner2]

....and over here in this window, we have what happens when "above average typing speed" , "good knowledge of quote box use" mix with "too much free time"

[Neo]

You could have fooled me with your ballistic launch back into the global warming thread where you "spen(t) 15 minutes" resurrecting a dead horse. And no, I'm not going back there as I am the only one who contributed anything beyond "opinion" pieces to support my argument.

Wrong again. Maybe you should go back there buddy and take a look, there are plenty of well researched factual posts that blew your flimsy statements out of the water. Ah well, it's like shooting fish in a barrel, except the fish dont know when they're dead.

[Goodghost]

Yeah, 'buddy', go back over there, go fetch.... There's a good boy....

[vbroker]

....and over here in this window, we have what happens when "above average typing speed" , "good knowledge of quote box use" mix with "too much free time"

My 60 versus your 1969 posts. Most of it rambling nonsense. Who has too much free time? Case dismissed.

You could have fooled me with your ballistic launch back into the global warming thread where you "spen(t) 15 minutes" resurrecting a dead horse. And no, I'm not going back there as I am the only one who contributed anything beyond "opinion" pieces to support my argument.

Wrong again. Maybe you should go back there buddy and take a look, there are plenty of well researched factual posts that blew your flimsy statements out of the water. Ah well, it's like shooting fish in a barrel, except the fish dont know when they're dead.

Of course, none of the "well researched factual posts" were posted by you, were they? Ah well, no matter. The only thing worse than perpetuating extreme left wing propaganda is perpetuating "for the gullible only" conspiracy theories.

Yeah, 'buddy', go back over there, go fetch.... There's a good boy....

Bye now.

[Goodghost]

Yeah, bye. Smell you later. at least I'm not on a nationally released dogfood box talking to a dog.

Someone's been eating too many Milk-Bone chewy treats.

[frankenburner2]

....and over here in this window, we have what happens when "above average typing speed" , "good knowledge of quote box use" mix with "too much free time"

My 60 versus your 1969 posts. Most of it rambling nonsense. Who has too much free time? Case dismissed.

what makes you think the "too much free time" was directed at you?

doesn't matter...glad to to know someone has actually read MOST of my 1969 posts.....

PS: the carefull observer will note(TM Zeus '06) I believe in quantity over quality, not the other way around. If Vbroker 'broke' his posts into smaller more manageable posts, he too would likely have close to 1969 posts....rather than 60 really long ones!

[frankenburner2]

1969 posts and i still don't know how to work those damn quote boxes!

[Neo]

...there are plenty of well researched factual posts that blew your flimsy statements out of the water.

Of course, none of the "well researched factual posts" were posted by you, were they? Ah well, no matter. The only thing worse than perpetuating extreme left wing propaganda is perpetuating "for the gullible only" conspiracy theories.

Actually yes I did post something quite factual as I recall.

And yes I agree, perpetuating "for the gullible only" conspiracy theories is worse than extreme left wing propaganda. Good point. Which is why I quoted respected scientific journals and research. Sadly there are others who are happy to quote "for the gullible only" conspiracy theorists instead, which can make all the critics look like idiots.

[eagle]

And no, I'm not going back there as I am the only one who contributed anything beyond "opinion" pieces to support my argument.

cough cough,

did you catch the ego flu

[zeusbheld]

So you didn't take it personally when you incorrectly assumed I thought your posts "idiotic" and thereby called your intelligence into question?

game face.

And no, I'm not going back there as I am the only one who contributed anything beyond "opinion" pieces to support my argument.

BULLSHIT.

the lone factual piece you submitted DID NOT SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENT!!!!

and that is fact not opinion.

did you even look at the numbers in the ONE link of factual information you posted? that's the real reason i would have eventually gone back there, not the post in this thread. i've just been lazy and distracted by all the coups, visa controversies, etc. going on in thailand right now.

stop giving yourself credit where credit isnt due.

That you or anyone else doesn't like what I posted doesn't concern me. How do you justify asking this:

saying that global warming makes hurricanes etc worse is a separate idea from the idea that global warming is accelerated by human activity. it IS controversial and not at all established, along with the vast majority of doomsday effects predicted by various parties.

but to equate the more extreme interpretations of possible consequences with the basic premise that human activity accelerates global warming is tantamount to lying. perhaps you can clarify whether your intended to mislead, or you just don't know what youre' talking about?

i think the question is thoroughly justifiable and fair: you posted something wherein the link you cited a) didnt support your argument and was misleading.

to me there are two options as to how this came about:

a) you are deliberately trying to mislead--in effect, it was a lie

or

you are ignorant of the relationship between the article you posted and the question on the table

which is it? or is there a third option i'm missing?

against this lame excuse:

no worries, however, you ask me to 'look carefully'--by now you should realize that people don't 'look carefully' on this or most other net forums.

The issue isn't the question. Many of your 8418 posts are so detailed and may I say anal, I find it difficult to believe you've just grouped yourself in with the rest of the TF forum common folk.

most of the 8,400 or so are sloppy one-liners and most of the detail comes from elsewhere--links, etc. and rereading it i still have to ask why, if you hadnt intended to collectively respond to neo and i, you didn't use separate quote boxes.

as for the lame excuse -- i'm not intending to duck responsibility for misreading your post, i should have caught it. it was intended as somewhat tongue in cheek, but it is a fact of life on the internet that people don't tend to carefully read posts they respond to. it wasn't intended to excuse my error so much as include myself in the derision i'm lumping upon net denizens.

To answer the question above: I don't know what I'm talking about. Concerning global warming, politics, conspiracy theories, investment banking or anything else for that matter. I'm sure a Forum Moderator or two and many others here will all be in agreement with me now.

now who is sulking? is that a real answer?

so are you saying that you didnt understand that these two questions are different:

a) are there 'just as many experts' who say global warming is not affected by human activity as there are who claim it is? and

does anthropogenic global warming cause worse storms to happen more often?

i really cannot see why you'd think they were the same question. if you care to explain, feel free. i do trust you are more informed and/or more honest in your professional life.

[Mister Moobs]

btw do not mistake bluster and gamesmanship for genuinely taking personal offense.

Interesting...

[zeusbheld]

btw do not mistake bluster and gamesmanship for genuinely taking personal offense.

Interesting...

your threshold for "interesting" is low. come over to my new pad some time dude we'll crack open a brewski and watch paint dry.