Killer was a South Korean

[beej]

Your right about this, but why did it happen?

I'm sure they did not intend to kill the South Koreans....

Mother f*cker,

The Virginia Tech killer was a South Korean National

Cho Seung Hui

Age 23

English Major

Probably had an extremely SMALL PENIS

What the f*ck

In the summer of 1950, in the first weeks of the Korean War, U.S. military forces opened fire on a group of South Korean civilian refugees at a railroad trestle in a place called No Gun Ri. Survivors estimate that up to four hundred died, mostly women and children.

Was this not just in the news as of late???

................... lol, I bet you they just chuckled and said, ''they all look the same to me'' bang bang bang bang.

[vbroker]

why can every f*cking idiot in the US by a weapon? Probably someone there should start to reconsider the weapon law :x

Let's try something different.....wait until you know what it is you are talking about, then post.

- the right to possess arms are just wrong wrong wrong. seems the us never actually learned from the past...how many massacres there have been now and how many more?

So there are no massacres in "gunless" Europe and Asia? I recall a recent incident in BKK where several people lost lives and limbs. BTW, a massacre is defined as at least four people killed in a single, related incident. Again, let's try and think first before we post, shall we?

The desire to kill begins in the White House. And it's occupant is a vehement opponent of gun control.

As I am. Further, I have no desire to kill; neither does anyone in the White House. Your politics bely you.

Mother f*cker,

The Virginia Tech killer was a South Korean National

Cho Seung Hui

Age 23

English Major

Probably had an extremely SMALL PENIS

What the f*ck

Obviously, an American citizen wouldn't dare to think of doing something like that of course.

Nor would any of you Sainted Europeans. What is this post? Am I detecting the usual American hatred and jealousy? Now I'm sorry I semi-complimented you in the USA Gun Lobby thread.

Don't use this instance to start a hate campaign against a nation.

Think about or better still educate yourself about the bigger picture

Why not? They use every other instance. Why should this be different? Thinking? That's a rare commodity in here.

Folks are wasting no time attaching this event to their favorite political causes.

The gun control folks are out in full force.

On the other hand, the NRA folks are saying this never would have happened if more students had been armed.

Big surprise about the gun control freaks. I don't know any rational pro gun commentary stating if the students were armed "this wouldn't have happened."

Guns don't kill people, people kill people............

People with guns kill people.

As do people with knives, hammers, axes, screwdrivers, ice picks, plastic bags, bats, bombs, cars, poison, crossbows, fire, rope, drugs, fists, arms, legs, etcetera. So therefore we can assume, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE.

i fail to see why any responsible citizen has the need to own several guns and hundreds of rounds of ammo !!

Not surprising coming from someone that would compare miltant extremist Islamic terrorism to Christianity under the cover of Fundamentalist Christianity. For the same reason a wealthy guy would own alot of cars, houses, toys in general. Because he can. I understand most Europeans don't grasp that. You don't need to. You just need to mind your own business.

[CiaranM]

The desire to kill begins in the White House. And it's occupant is a vehement opponent of gun control.

As I am. Further, I have no desire to kill; neither does anyone in the White House. Your politics bely you.

i fail to see why any responsible citizen has the need to own several guns and hundreds of rounds of ammo !!

Not surprising coming from someone that would compare miltant extremist Islamic terrorism to Christianity under the cover of Fundamentalist Christianity. For the same reason a wealthy guy would own alot of cars, houses, toys in general. Because he can. I understand most Europeans don't grasp that. You don't need to. You just need to mind your own business.

and ur stupidity belies U !! although i guess the White House prefers to get others to do their killing for them !!!

i have compared extemist Islam with Fundamental Christianity and will continue to do so .... there's a huge gulf between what Fundamental Christians believe in compared to "normal" Christians, but u'd need to get ur head out of ur ass before u can see that !!!

take a check on the death rates caused my firearms in the US and compare it to developed European countries and then get back to me ....

cars, houses and most toys primary function is not too kill other human beings .... I understand some Americans don't understand that because their head is that far up their own ass !!!

[grezzzy_greer]

This is extremely sad...not just for the people who were murdered and their families, but for the family of the boy who did it. Imagine bringing up a son and being proud of his life and achievements only to have it all torn to pieces and your happy memories of life with your baby boy destroyed in a senseless and preventable instance like this.

What happened can never be forgotten, least of all by those whose loved ones had their dreams and futures cut off by a deranged student, and certainly this must not be forgotten by the community at large.

There is no denying that gun control laws might have prevented this - I say "might" because it would be unreasonable to state it as an absolute, given that these things have happened elsewhere in the world. It's the apparent frequency of these rampages in the US schools that horrify the rest of the world.

The freedom that the Americans are so fond of quoting at the rest of us just doesnt seem terribly apparent to us, to be honest, from the outside many developed countries (America, Australia, the UK) look more like police states than places like Thailand, where there is much more "practical"

freedom than I have seen even in my own country of birth (Australia).

I don't actually believe there would be many from the other developed countries in the world who are jealous of America or Americans, the only people I ever hear saying anything like this are Americans; the rest of the world is no longer beating a path to your door. Please credit us with some common sense.

I am certain that gun control laws in Thailand would be useless in any case because of the type of society in which we live, but in the so-called first world, real laws would be more likely to be enforced, and I can't help thinking that the murder rate in the US would really decline.

Many murders are an "act of passion" where it happens simply because, in a moment of anger or rage, a gun is readily available, so the person grabs it and fires. The problem with having a gun and shooting someone is that saying "Oops, I'm sorry, I didn't really mean that." is a bit late when they are lying in a pool of blood, dead or dying. If it is made easy to kill, then killings will be more prevalent - simple rule of logic.

The concept that making sure everyone has a gun and would therefore be able to prevent murders or mass murders by shooting the murderer is very much akin to the principle of MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) where one country is deterred from blowing up another country with nuclear arms because they know they will, in turn, be destroyed...nice way to balance the world... so we make sure ALL the people have guns...nutters included...so that if anyone pulls the trigger someone nearby can kill or maime them?

I don't think I like the sound of that at all.

This instance occurred because the boy in question was unbalanced, he had been displaying symptoms for a long time, but no-one took any notice.

I am not saying "poor guy"... I am saying "stupid us"... the people near him, who loved him, or simply knew him, or even just taught him, could see there was something wrong, but they failed him, and they failed us, and in the end, we reap what we sow.

Community ignorance allows disturbed people to become dangers to themselves and everyone else - community apathy feeds the fire that destroys the very community itself.

........boy...re-reading that I am sorry if it sounds a bit depressing and a bit heavy, but it's a sad and depressing subject.

For those who lost their loved ones, we hope you can find comfort and the strength to continue.

For those who lost their lives, Rest In Peace.

[farang_subson]

If you read the U.S. Bill of Rights, you get bonked over the head with "keep the government out of our lives". http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/funddocs/billeng.htm . That's the overriding spirit. It's not about glorifying a leader, religion, or dogma. It's not about eliminating every dangerous appliance in people's lives. Trading a little extra freedom for safety is about as un-American as you can get...I'm sorry if the Euros (and many Americans) don't understand or respect that.

The hypocrisy comes when your typical gun-nut cites the 2nd amendment on one hand, and starts blathering about banning abortion, flag-burning, offensive videos, and gay-marriage on the other.

Vbroker, get real. Guns make it easy to kill people. That's why you don't hear about massacres being carried out by a "lone bats-man". If you want to argue for gun rights, it's simple: it's about freedom.

[Undercover]

Canada has its fair share of weirdos and sickos -- and 80% of our population live a stone's throw from the US, yet our murder rate is a fraction of that in the US. I mean, in Washington DC, the murder rate is something like 78 per 100,000 people. In Toronto, it's about 4 per 100,000. Gun control, baby!! I'm all for it!

Interesting stats on Canadian crime here at the Canadian Board of Statistics:

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/050721/d050721a.htm

If you look at the crime by province, it is clear that crime in Canada is generally rural, with the NWT having a dramatically higher rate of crime than other areas, although this seems to be changing a bit in Toronto in recent years with gangs fighting turf wars over drugs.

In the USA, the vast majority of gun-violence occurs in a very few select counties, including Washington D.C. and is primarily gang/drug sale related.

This trend is observable in other countries, such as Ireland, where according to the Irish Government, 39% of homicides by firearm were drug-related:

http://www.ndc.hrb.ie/directory/news_detail.php?cat_id=&news_id=3506&pointer=0

Most urban gun violence in the US/UK/Canada is directly related to drugs.

My personal opinion is that legalizing drugs would do a lot more to alleviate the problem than attempting to ban guns.

[beej]

So why the **** do people have to own guns that are not in anyway going to be used for hunting, or sport?

A ******* Uzi, yeah great lets go pigeon shooting!

These wepons are made for killing people, so if you sell them to people, its no big bloody suprise they use them to do just that.

vbroker, the utter cod **** you spout, its, its just.......... cod ****.

I find it sad that so many kids died, but it will keep on happening, more and more, unless guns are banned! Plain and simple, BANNED.

Unless you are using them for a) sport target shooting on a deacent size farm c) a cop!

NO one needs to own a automatic wepon, look at the gun crime figures in the US compared to the UK per capita!

[sunsnow]

Oh let it not be true. The guy had made, before the incident, some photos of himself with those guns and gear. :shock: And man, the news agencies show the photos, why on earth! Don't they want to protect the feelings of those affected. :? Here this kind of stuff would never be published. And they dont seem to be taken by himself! Someone has photgraphied him, who the heck is the other whack job.

[Loburt]

So, you're saying that news agencies should not post these photos because freedom of expression is not as important as protecting the feelings of the several dozen families.

But it was okay for youtube to refuse to remove defamatory videos because freedom of expression was more important than protecting the feelings of tens of millions of Thais?

[sunsnow]

So, you're saying that news agencies should not post these photos because freedom of expression is not as important as protecting the feelings of the several dozen families.

But it was okay for youtube to refuse to remove defamatory videos because freedom of expression was more important than protecting the feelings of tens of millions of Thais?

You must be joking with this comment. You of all ppl... :roll: This comparison must be a joke you made with a tongue in cheeck...it can't be otherwise explained.

[Loburt]

Not a joke in any way, shape or form.

[Simmo_V2.0]

The Right to bear arms concerned having an available malitia ready to fight against the Britts, the French, the Spanish and/or the Ind'yans...

.

b***it.

I'm not even a Yank and I know that the second amendment was in large part intended to keep a government fearful of its citizens. Which is a good thing.

Hurricana Katrina showed that in times of crisis the state cannot and will not defend you or your family.

[robbie36]

Personally I think it is important that we publish the rants of people who undertake these atrocities. It is important that we try to understand what it was that drove them to commit such carnage. From the little I can garner from what has been published so far he was deeply upset by the inequality of wealth on campus - those with cars, money, credit cards, trust funds and him coming from a very poor immigrant family.

Even when peoples minds are inherently unbalanced there is usually a perceived 'injustice' that is driving their actions - we would do well do understand it.

[Loburt]

I'm not even a Yank and I know that the second amendment was in large part intended to keep a government fearful of its citizens. Which is a good thing.

That's true. But it is still possible to argue that the intent was that those with arms be members of an organized militia. If the government was so oppressive, then the militia composed of ordinary citizens, would turn against it.

I'm not saying with certainty that WAS the intent, just that some argue that it was.

[Undercover]

Because of the recent carnage in Virginia, most of the comments are focused on gun laws in the US.

Well, I'm American but I've also spent a lot of time in South Africa and I think that the South African experience is relevant to the conversation because South Africa bears a lot in common with the US in certain key respects: a) a large multi-ethnic population; huge number of immigrants and c) massive quantities of firearms. It's also one of the few places on our planet more violent than the USA.

Back in the mid to late 90's when I was in South Africa, it was quite easy to carry a gun and I, like most of the people that I knew, irrespective of their race, carried one everywhere. This was for the simple reason that South Africa had an almost unimaginable level of violent crime and almost any given robbery ususally ended in a gratuitous homicide. Usually by gun, but also by knife, screwdriver, ice pick, whatever.

Car jacking was absolutely rampant. In South Africa, when you pull up to a traffic light (a "robot" in the local parlance) at night, you never pull all the way up. You leave yourself at least two car lengths of space so that you can speed away or run someone over if they try to jack you.

If you were a proper citizen you could buy your gun in a gun shop. If you were a criminal of course you bought it on the street. Thanks to decades of civil wars in Africa, there are literally tens of millions of guns floating around. When I was last in neighboring Mozambique in 2001, the price of an AK-47 was $1.00 USD. That's right, one dollar. (Although ammo was a different story.)

People in South Africa carried guns for a very simple reason - the chances of the police saving you from a life-threatening situation were essentially nil. One had to fend for oneself, in an environment where everyone had weapons. In this situation the only practical solution is to be armed yourself.

At that time in South Africa, when you walked into a bank, there was a cubbyhole kind of thing (like in elementary school) where you checked your gun and got a claim ticket.

In 2004, this all changed and the government instituted fairly draconian gun laws. The upshot of this is that now it is much more difficult for a citizen to get a gun but of course it is just as easy as ever for criminals to obtain them. This puts the average person in an awkward situation: carry a gun illegally and maybe save your life or comply with the law and get executed over the 20 Rand in your pocket.

The South African government of course blames everything on illegal immigrants (just like every other country on earth) but hasn't taken any other steps to protect its citizens. Last year the Minister of Security notoriously suggested that anyone who thought there was too much crime in SA should just "leave the country" which of course millions of people have already done.

I think that it is very hard for Europeans to relate to an environment where there are so many illegal guns available but I also think its important to understand the realities of life in these places, where life is fundamentally different from relatively gun-free places like London or Paris.

[sunsnow]

Undercover:Great experiense that you shared! Quite interesting. Thanks. Gave good ideas.

People in South Africa carried guns for a very simple reason - the chances of the police saving you from a life-threatening situation were essentially nil. One had to fend for oneself, in an environment where everyone had weapons. In this situation the only practical solution is to be armed yourself.

I guess the South African situation mentioned here might be the one that is best suitable for USA too.:?: If everyone carried gun, there would be this safety that you desribe here so nicely! And toughening the laws leaves the guns only to the criminals as you gave good real life example. No improvement there. So, maybe only way forward to improve situation that hopefully Amercians learn from this is to mandate that everyone HAS to carry a gun in the USA in future? (Ok, government should keep their fingers out of telling what ppl should do, so, better yet: government could implement a handout system where it would give out coupons to buy government supported revolvers or so on...) Maybe also import those replica AK-47 from Africa and distribute them to every car user for example at low cost. I think that way no one would use guns to do crime because they would know the other person is packing heat as the odds to get killed yourself would highten the bets (ok, it would not end gun crime, but it would dimish it a lot as it would take much more higer bets to draw the weapon out!) In the end also for example schools would save big penny when they would not need those metal detectors anymore and hire security guys to do those personal searches.

[farang_subson]

Well, we now have the cause for the massacre: secularism! That's what Rush Limbaugh says, so it must be true.

In case you Europeans don't know, Limbaugh is a hugely popular right wing talk show host. His minions proudly refer to themselves as "ditto-heads" (as in "I agree with whatever you say").

Never mind that Europe is far more atheistic than the U.S., but has far lower homicide rates. Never mind the following link, where it would appear that church attendance is positively correlated with violence: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/rel_chu_att-religion-church-attendance .(check it out...it's astonishing, actually).

Anyway, here's Rush:

Maybe there needs to be more religion and prayer at our universities, folks. Maybe there needs to be a sense on college campuses that there's something bigger than the individual. Maybe there's something larger than the professor. Maybe they're not too young to learn that there are many things in life larger than self, and maybe being able to take comfort in a relationship with that which is larger than self would have a calming effect on some of these people who go absolutely nuts and lose their sanity. But that's even arguable. But can you imagine the leftists hearing me say this now: More prayer, more religion at our university? "Separation of church and state!" would be the template there. "What are you trying to do? You're trying to force a religion on people!" No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no! You don't understand. You can't possibly because you're irreligious.

[condotown]

A news report about a parcel the shooter sent to a news agency between his first and shootings episodes.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0b5_1176937612&p=1

[zeusbheld]

cars, houses and most toys primary function is not too kill other human beings ....

you live in thailand and you still believe that cars' primary function is not to kill other human beings? not even if they're on motorbikes??

[hellotabo]

Killer was a South Korea

Killer was a TF Admin

Killer was a TF MOD

Killer was a TF Members

I wanna kill them all if I got abused. I feel the same as him

[vbroker]

The hypocrisy comes when your typical gun-nut cites the 2nd amendment on one hand, and starts blathering about banning abortion, flag-burning, offensive videos, and gay-marriage on the other.

Vbroker, get real. Guns make it easy to kill people. That's why you don't hear about massacres being carried out by a "lone bats-man". If you want to argue for gun rights, it's simple: it's about freedom.

I'm going to get real real; just for you:

Abortion: It appears your timing is a tad........WEAK. Maybe you heard about 18 April's 5-4 Supreme Court ruling banning partial birth abortion? In case you missed it:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/abortion_what_next;_ylt=AmgDRRzHMt5UAtHDEJYupRv5R9AF

This is just the beginning of at least 10 to as much as 20 to 25 years of these sort of rulings. Why? Because for the first time in over a generation, the conservatives rule the court. With any luck, Bush in his last 20 or so months in office will get an opportunity to replace Bader-Ginsberg and/or Stevens and present us a super majority. In that event, 25 years becomes the minimum. Then it won't matter as much who the president is or who runs Congress. Even the most protracted liberal understands this. It doesn't get any more real than that.

Flag Burning: Only the most heinous, pathetic, far left cowards would hide behind the First Amendment and play this game. They have their free speech right; I have the right to call them what they are.

Offensive Videos: Porn? It's free all day online. The business has moved to pay-per-view which includes the big hotel chains; that's where most money is made nowadays. Wake up.

Gay Marriage: Let's see....I've lost count....how many states have taken this issue to the people for vote and passed amendments defining marriage as a union between one man and one woman? 13? 14? 15? More are on the way. It is only the loony liberal Massachussetts Supreme Court that imposed this on its citizens.

Freedom is a part of why we have gun rights. It does not mean you have the freedom to do what ever the hell you want. Guns are an efficient way to kill people. So are bombs. Heard about those massacres? Biological agents might be another way. Remember the Congressional anthrax scare right after September 11? Save your lecture for the less than informed in here. See next quote.

So why the f*ck do people have to own guns that are not in anyway going to be used for hunting, or sport?

A f*cking Uzi, yeah great lets go pigeon shooting!

These wepons are made for killing people, so if you sell them to people, its no big bloody suprise they use them to do just that.

vbroker, the utter cod sh*t you spout, its, its just.......... cod sh*t.

I've ignored you long enough. Your posts are just as devoid of any coherence now as they ever were. I've got a question for you and the rest of the mental giants: Since you are all soooooo critical of the evil U.S. and its evil permissive gun laws, I wonder.....where is the equal and justified outrage at the DAILY Iraqi bombings and shootings that have slaughtered 10's of thousands of innocents? Just the other day 4 simultaneous bombs killed some 180 total innocents. But not a f*cking peep out of you or your pathetic European press. The dipsh*t parade will waste no time jumping on the bash America and its guns bandwagon but there is an eerie silence when it comes to speaking out against murderous Islamic terror and its civilian toll. Because it's America's and not your problem, right? Incredibly, you all are so stupid as to really believe that. Music to an Islamic Fascist's ears. You've got big balls in near unanymity when it comes to criticizing us but I don't hear the spineless Europeans (and too many Americans) chirping in unison when it comes to Islamic terror. Noooo. Instead we get the atheistic, idiotic drone about how certain Christian "strains" are as dangerous and lethal as global Islamic fanatics, among other garbage. Anything to change the subject and shift blame. Irrational and hypocritical. Only when it literally hits home (and it WILL hit home) can we ever expect any of you to maybe open your eyes. BTW, say hello to your girlfriend for me.

[farang_subson]

Predictable, Vbroker. Do you have any political opinions that weren't stamped by the conservative cookie cutter? I challenge you: list three opinions that would surprise me.

Neither the libs or the cons can make any claim to being the "party of freedom". The only difference is: which activities do the libs/cons choose to ban? Sounds like you've got a long list.

Only the most heinous, pathetic, far left cowards would hide behind the First Amendment and play this game

Tell that to John Glenn and Colin Powell.

As for the other issues of freedom, you're just saying I'm wrong because some government body sides with you. Not persuasive. On the other hand, if some government body votes to take your guns away, you'll be burying them under the floorboards.

I largely support gun rights. But my reasons are wayyy different than yours. I say, "get the government out of our lives". That's as American as it gets. You say: I agree with whatever Rush Limbaugh says.

[luckyphil247]

Dont know why so many people living outside the U.S

care so much about their gun laws . We're not the ones who live with the high risk of being shot dead .

Personally I believe guns should be totally banned in any society and only used by law enforcement . However it's obvious so many Americans are passionate about their right to bear arms , that guns are going to be around in the U.S for a long time yet .

As the world becomes one , I think the U.S will eventually ban guns and also adopt the metric system . It will happen before the turn of the century .

[farang_subson]

As the world becomes one , I think the U.S will eventually ban guns and also adopt the metric system . It will happen before the turn of the century .

What is the opposite of "orgasm"? Whatever it is, that's what Vbroker had as he read your post.

[CiaranM]

I've got a question for you and the rest of the mental giants: Since you are all soooooo critical of the evil U.S. and its evil permissive gun laws, I wonder.....where is the equal and justified outrage at the DAILY Iraqi bombings and shootings that have slaughtered 10's of thousands of innocents? Just the other day 4 simultaneous bombs killed some 180 total innocents. But not a f*cking peep out of you or your pathetic European press. The dipsh*t parade will waste no time jumping on the bash America and its guns bandwagon but there is an eerie silence when it comes to speaking out against murderous Islamic terror and its civilian toll. Because it's America's and not your problem, right? Incredibly, you all are so stupid as to really believe that. Music to an Islamic Fascist's ears. You've got big balls in near unanymity when it comes to criticizing us but I don't hear the spineless Europeans (and too many Americans) chirping in unison when it comes to Islamic terror. Noooo. Instead we get the atheistic, idiotic drone about how certain Christian "strains" are as dangerous and lethal as global Islamic fanatics, among other garbage. Anything to change the subject and shift blame. Irrational and hypocritical. Only when it literally hits home (and it WILL hit home) can we ever expect any of you to maybe open your eyes. BTW, say hello to your girlfriend for me.

u r a f**king nutcase ..... how many bombings a day were there in Iraq before ur Nazi brethen in the white house decided to invade ??

answers on a postcard please !!!