Democrats to Form New Gov.

[Neo]

(more insulting rants from Alltouristman proving beyond any doubt that democracy is fundamentally flawed in that it relies on people like him to understand what the hell is going on. Maybe the PAD had a point after all)

[allseasonsman]

(more insulting rants from Alltouristman proving beyond any doubt that democracy is fundamentally flawed in that it relies on people like him to understand what the hell is going on. Maybe the PAD had a point after all)

Except that this new tactic only underlines your character even further!

A fake quote- what next?

At least your consistent!

YOUR A VERY BOLD BOY!

[eagle]

honestly, in the highly unlikely event that i would look to TF for education (about as likely as my cat learning arabic, memorizing the Koran, and reciting it backwards for the entire student body of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (about 20,000 people, and my cat's in Bangkok), you'd be very low on list.

Beyond being a great man for wise cracks and throw away one liners, you are as likely to write as much rubbish as the next man! And you often do! Though you do often get it right too!

However I would not be up to the task of bringing you up to a decent level of education in the area of political science or economics. Your schoolboy smart a*s attitude is too much of a hindrance and you are beyond doing any real and substantive research. In any event it would have to be a a smart a*s like you to take my comment about educating someone literally as opposed to a figure of speech which underlines a certain disdain for ignorant and uninformed views expressed ? by yes some real clowns on TF.

You are very good at distraction and witty comments but you really do need to remind yourself that you are a lightweight. Funny and entertaining to be sure. But you project what you think or want people to have said as opposed to what they actually say/write far too much. As a result you tend towards cheap put downs and empty bluster far too much. It only brings us into this cycle of attack and counter attack which actually does not bring forth any new perspectives or persuasive argument. And that is not because your not capable- because clearly you are often persuasive and logical in your views. However your belligerence lets you down and renders much of what you write as forgettable superficial and frankly not worthy of your ability to transcend the sillyness of TF.

what exactly are your credentials, that you appoint yourself an educator? you read an article or two in the Economist? big f*cking deal.

A classic emotional outburst! As you have often done, you twist and misrepresent what somebody has actually wrote,and then go on to tell me what I have read and done.

I read a couple of articles of the economist then did I? Well as you are such a know it all then, that would seem to be the end of the matter? Wrong! You could have said I have read dozens of articles from the economist and you would still have been far out!

The astute observer will have noted that I gave you several links and mentioned that there were many many other sources from which to have gain information that would provide insightful and diverse range of views. Many of these expert views will generally have some broad consensus or areas of agreement. The experts I refer to are the students and graduates, professors in the relevant fields, such as economics, political science etc etc. It had not occurred to some of the clowns on this site that somebody in Dublin could be in daily contact with dozens of such people from within Thailand and all over the world on a regular basis! Thailand has Universities with many well informed and learned students and academics.

Then there is the fact that someone [some of the clowns some live there and think they know it all- most people who live there are of course not clowns- just some who feel free to make an issue of someone not living there, and making all manner of stupid ignorant assumption as result] could not conceive or consider that somebody in Dublin could not have family living in Thailand [like a brother married to a Thai lady! - Now why would I have that on my profile!] and as a result have an emotional attachment to the country to such an extent that one would be open to many perspectives and updates about many aspects of Thailand and it's political developments.

However when all is said and done Vbroker is actually quite correct and very perceptive! Why do any ODF take any of this so seriously. I have no problem with argument [best way to learn often] or people not agreeing. However when the arguments are so weak and there is such little good argument made, why wouldn't anyway get fed up with such lame efforts. I could easily have put forward plenty of arguments against many of the points of view I have expressed but I was rather hoping to see them coming from some here on TF.

That didn't happen and so Vbroker is spot on when he has a go at me! He done so by at least putting things in perspective. Is it really so hard for people to passionately disagree and not take it so personally. If someone writes rubbish then can people not say I think this for reason a-b-c etc etc etc

without misrepresenting what some wrote or what their meaning was.

I guess that means you have a degree in bla bla bla :roll:

[PeeMarc]

honestly, in the highly unlikely event that i would look to TF for education (about as likely as my cat learning arabic, memorizing the Koran, and reciting it backwards for the entire student body of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (about 20,000 people, and my cat's in Bangkok), you'd be very low on list.

Beyond being a great man for wise cracks and throw away one liners, you are as likely to write as much rubbish as the next man! And you often do! Though you do often get it right too!

However I would not be up to the task of bringing you up to a decent level of education in the area of political science or economics. Your schoolboy smart a*s attitude is too much of a hindrance and you are beyond doing any real and substantive research. In any event it would have to be a a smart a*s like you to take my comment about educating someone literally as opposed to a figure of speech which underlines a certain disdain for ignorant and uninformed views expressed ? by yes some real clowns on TF.

You are very good at distraction and witty comments but you really do need to remind yourself that you are a lightweight. Funny and entertaining to be sure. But you project what you think or want people to have said as opposed to what they actually say/write far too much. As a result you tend towards cheap put downs and empty bluster far too much. It only brings us into this cycle of attack and counter attack which actually does not bring forth any new perspectives or persuasive argument. And that is not because your not capable- because clearly you are often persuasive and logical in your views. However your belligerence lets you down and renders much of what you write as forgettable superficial and frankly not worthy of your ability to transcend the sillyness of TF.

what exactly are your credentials, that you appoint yourself an educator? you read an article or two in the Economist? big f*cking deal.

A classic emotional outburst! As you have often done, you twist and misrepresent what somebody has actually wrote,and then go on to tell me what I have read and done.

I read a couple of articles of the economist then did I? Well as you are such a know it all then, that would seem to be the end of the matter? Wrong! You could have said I have read dozens of articles from the economist and you would still have been far out!

The astute observer will have noted that I gave you several links and mentioned that there were many many other sources from which to have gain information that would provide insightful and diverse range of views. Many of these expert views will generally have some broad consensus or areas of agreement. The experts I refer to are the students and graduates, professors in the relevant fields, such as economics, political science etc etc. It had not occurred to some of the clowns on this site that somebody in Dublin could be in daily contact with dozens of such people from within Thailand and all over the world on a regular basis! Thailand has Universities with many well informed and learned students and academics.

Then there is the fact that someone [some of the clowns some live there and think they know it all- most people who live there are of course not clowns- just some who feel free to make an issue of someone not living there, and making all manner of stupid ignorant assumption as result] could not conceive or consider that somebody in Dublin could not have family living in Thailand [like a brother married to a Thai lady! - Now why would I have that on my profile!] and as a result have an emotional attachment to the country to such an extent that one would be open to many perspectives and updates about many aspects of Thailand and it's political developments.

However when all is said and done Vbroker is actually quite correct and very perceptive! Why do any ODF take any of this so seriously. I have no problem with argument [best way to learn often] or people not agreeing. However when the arguments are so weak and there is such little good argument made, why wouldn't anyway get fed up with such lame efforts. I could easily have put forward plenty of arguments against many of the points of view I have expressed but I was rather hoping to see them coming from some here on TF.

That didn't happen and so Vbroker is spot on when he has a go at me! He done so by at least putting things in perspective. Is it really so hard for people to passionately disagree and not take it so personally. If someone writes rubbish then can people not say I think this for reason a-b-c etc etc etc

without misrepresenting what some wrote or what their meaning was.

If indeed you are so knowledgeable and have your finger on the Thai pulse (read: doubt here), why would you waste/spend so much time and energy scribing lengthy opinions about all of this here on TF? Seems to me, given TF is just a social/dating/oddball site which rarely has any serious content or people, that you are just barking at the moon here. If you want in-depth debate, I'm sure there would be far better places than here. If you feel a real, passionate need to impart your 'worthy' opinions, views and knowledge, why not do it in a place where it matters or where it would be appreciated?

Its rather obvious that the majority of the time on TF you're going to get wise cracks, stirrers, firebrands and tossers.

Just sayin' :roll:

[SweetieBabie]

why would you waste/spend so much time and energy scribing lengthy opinions about all of this here on TF?

Seconded that! He surely has a lot to say.

[CiaranM]

(more insulting rants from Alltouristman proving beyond any doubt that democracy is fundamentally flawed in that it relies on people like him to understand what the hell is going on. Maybe the PAD had a point after all)

Except that this new tactic only underlines your character even further!

A fake quote- what next?

At least your consistent!

YOUR A VERY BOLD BOY!

and u r still a f**king wanker !!!

[CiaranM]

why would you waste/spend so much time and energy scribing lengthy opinions about all of this here on TF?

Seconded that! He surely has a lot to say.

cut and paste doesn't take that long .... and low life jackeens like this can muti-task .... deal drugs, steal ur car and pimp out their sister all at the same time !!!!

[CiaranM]

As far as informed opinion, I have read a lot by political scientists and lecturers in Thailand and the opinion against Avashit is generally damning. Anyone who lives here would know (and I have this from my Thai friends) that there is corruption on all sides of Thai politics, yet there was a deliberately partisan operation by the courts (and certain unnameable others) to remove certain factions from power.

There. I've just wasted my breath again. But you can say goodbye to Avashit in January.

can u provide some on this damning "informed" opinion ???

[PeeMarc]

I agree PeeMarc, but by the same token, I could ask you the same question too. I find your posts generally intellectually stimulating and interesting.

Thanks, and it's ok to ask me the same question. I guess I have learnt (sometimes the hard way) in the past that TF really isn't the place to delve into serious topics to any great length, and certainly not the place to try to shift anyones opinions about them. There comes a point in most forums where enough is enough and it just gets worn out and boring for most people. (and you well know, being boring or too serious isn't particularly popular here in Thailand)

I did actually put a few comments on this thread 2 days ago, but then I deleted them straight away. I'd had a few PMs from some Thai friends/people here who'd completely mis-read or misunderstand some other comments I or others had made and were getting emotional. I just figured enough is enough.

Actually, I really liked zues' pic he had for a while, with the guy banging away at his keyboard because 'someone's wrong on the internet'. That kind of sums up how pointless it can be. But I agree its a free world and if ASM (or anyone) wants to stand on his little soap box and bang on, then ok. Whatever.

Generally, i find this place amusing most days, and life's just too short to get too serious with it. I just couldn't be arsed to spend the time barking at the moon or debating **** for too long in this kind of environment. Much better to do with some good people, face to face, with a few laughs, great wine and food on some endless night.

[Dr_Mike]

I agree PeeMarc, but by the same token, I could ask you the same question too. I find your posts generally intellectually stimulating and interesting.

Thanks, and it's ok to ask me the same question. I guess I have learnt (sometimes the hard way) in the past that TF really isn't the place to delve into serious topics to any great length, and certainly not the place to try to shift anyones opinions about them. There comes a point in most forums where enough is enough and it just gets worn out and boring for most people. (and you well know, being boring or too serious isn't particularly popular here in Thailand)

I did actually put a few comments on this thread 2 days ago, but then I deleted them straight away. I'd had a few PMs from some Thai friends/people here who'd completely mis-read or misunderstand some other comments I or others had made and were getting emotional. I just figured enough is enough.

Actually, I really liked zues' pic he had for a while, with the guy banging away at his keyboard because 'someone's wrong on the internet'. That kind of sums up how pointless it can be. But I agree its a free world and if ASM (or anyone) wants to stand on his little soap box and bang on, then ok. Whatever.

Generally, i find this place amusing most days, and life's just too short to get too serious with it. I just couldn't be arsed to spend the time barking at the moon or debating sh*t for too long in this kind of environment. Much better to do with some good people, face to face, with a few laughs, great wine and food on some endless night.

Marc, when you wanna meet up over some beers, (in cans) or some wine ;-)and let our girls gossip about TF?

[PeeMarc]

Marc, when you wanna meet up over some beers, (in cans) or some wine ;-)and let our girls gossip about TF?

mate, you've been threatening that for about a year and we're beginning to believe you and sass are just cardboard cut-outs or something. Wine is fine, but I never drink beer out of a can (chilled glass only please), but my dog does occasionally eat out of a can.

You are welcome up at the 'farm' whenever you like.

[Dr_Mike]

Marc, when you wanna meet up over some beers, (in cans) or some wine ;-)and let our girls gossip about TF?

mate, you've been threatening that for about a year and we're beginning to believe you and sass are just cardboard cut-outs or something. Wine is fine, but I never drink beer out of a can (chilled glass only please), but my dog does occasionally eat out of a can.

You are welcome up at the 'farm' whenever you like.

Of course I don't drink anything out of a can. ;-)

I've got a few creases and Sassy did have a staple in her butt. ;-)

Let's meet up at Ban kru noi on the 21st!!!

[Neo]

I've got a few creases and Sassy did have a staple in her butt. ;-)

I've heard of people getting their stomachs stapled. :shock:

[Dr_Mike]

I've got a few creases and Sassy did have a staple in her butt. ;-)

I've heard of people getting their stomachs stapled. :shock:

Did it hurt? ;-)

Wish you could join us NEO!!!

[PeeMarc]

I've got a few creases and Sassy did have a staple in her butt. ;-)

I've heard of people getting their stomachs stapled. :shock:

on some of these forums sometimes, I do wish some people would get their arses stapled

[Dr_Mike]

I've got a few creases and Sassy did have a staple in her butt. ;-)

I've heard of people getting their stomachs stapled. :shock:

on some of these forums sometimes, I do wish some people would get their arses stapled

Speaking of that....

We should all meet up for some fun: Whiskers, Condo Don, Stegee, Bass_bkk, Neo, Jeff, CiaranM, Brian, Rob, Bob, Eagle and a few others and start a staple club. ;-)

[LakeGeneve]

I've got a few creases and Sassy did have a staple in her butt. ;-)

I've heard of people getting their stomachs stapled. :shock:

on some of these forums sometimes, I do wish some people would get their arses stapled

But mate then your post count would be about 2/3rd of what it is now.

Perhaps the staple option could be a penalty between a yellow and a red ? :shock:

[LakeGeneve]

One ring to unite them all, hopes Abhisit

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva was the ''lord of the ring'' as he pondered the band of gold an elderly Isan woman gave him last year. She told him it was a symbol of fellowship between him and people in all regions of the country.

At a televised press conference at Democrat party headquarters last night, Mr Abhisit raised the gold ring he said he had received from 84-year-old grandma Niam during a visit to Ubon Ratchathani province.

''When I was there on an election campaign,'' Mr Abhisit said tearfully, ''... she gave me this ring and said I was now engaged to northeasterners.''

He was recalling the meeting under a tree beside farmland in Muang Samsip district on Aug 8 last year.

''I don't know if grandma Niam is watching. But I'd like to tell her today that the man who received the ring from her will work for her, her relatives, her northeastern people and all her Thai compatriots with fairness, dedication and honesty,'' he said in

a clear message to rural people, including those in the Northeast where the Democrats struggle to win votes.

''I do know that one man can neither do everything nor solve every problem. And I know that from now on I will not be able to make everyone love me, agree with me or even support me.''

Sorry for that I "Copy and Paste" It's from Bangkok Post. I read this morning.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/181208_News/18Dec2008_news04.php

actually, I heard his speech in Thai version

Compared with Thaksin, Samak, and Somchai speech... Abhisit is the WINNER.

I remember about Thaksin once he talked about provinces which supported him were good, and he would give budget to support them... such a bias speech.

Abhisit was my teacher when I was studying communication arts.

From what I know he was a nice teacher. So I hope his ideals not change.

and hope he can do what he said.

It's not perfect time to become Mr.PM for him. Many problems that he's gonna get through. I think Nawin Chidchob and his gang will be big problem in the near future, hope he can manage it.

Yes, I think that was a brilliant touch to his speech, the part about the old woman in Isan and the ring. It's just the right type of message needed now for the country.

And as you pointed out, exactly the opposite of the divisive message we heard before from another PM.

It's very early in the game, but this is a good sign and a good start.

Thanks for psoting this bcool as I missed that in the speech. Seem to be a nice bit of symbolism. The PM and the diverse Cabinet really have a huge mountain of problems and quite a few people to repay & keep happy.

I am very interested to see what the Dems policy will be in the south given how bad the situation has been and the failed policies of recent times only worsening the situation.

It will be very interesting to see how long they last and what Mr Buriram & his lot, and Mr Suphanburi & his lot, end up doing given their track record.

Oh and let's not forget all those reds shirts and heading down the highway to 'greet' Mark - "Red shirts being mobilised for siege"

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/worldhotnews/read.php?newsid=30091202

[PeeMarc]

I've got a few creases and Sassy did have a staple in her butt. ;-)

I've heard of people getting their stomachs stapled. :shock:

on some of these forums sometimes, I do wish some people would get their arses stapled

But mate then your post count would be about 2/3rd of what it is now.

how rather observant of you. I had no idea you've been checking out my arse.

[CiaranM]

Letter to Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra

October 27, 2004

We write to urge your government to immediately launch an independent and impartial criminal investigation of Thai security forces implicated in the deaths of at least 85 people in Narathiwat province this week. Security forces shot and killed seven protesters and at least 78 protesters were suffocated or crushed to death as they were being transferred to detention facilities. Some 1,200 people are still held by military authorities, without access to legal representation and with questionable medical attention. This incident marks a major escalation of the violence in predominantly Muslim southern Thailand, where more than 400 people have already been killed since the beginning of the year.

Your government should act urgently to prosecute to the full extent of the law those responsible for these deaths (up to and including the highest levels of the chain of command) and to compensate appropriately the victims of human rights violations by Thai security forces.

Since your government assumed power, Thai security forces have increasingly used excessive force and operated with impunity, particularly in southern Thailand. There has been no accountability for over two thousand extrajudicial executions carried out by security forces in the ?war on drugs? launched by your government; there has been no accountability for the unnecessary use of lethal force by security forces who killed some 110 militants armed only with machetes, most aged between 15 and 20, in Kruesi Mosque in southern Thailand on April 28; and there has been no accountability for the March 18 ?disappearance? of Somchai Neelapajit, a prominent human rights lawyer representing two Thai Muslims facing terrorism charges, who is strongly suspected of having been abducted and killed by security forces. Each incident fostered the atmosphere of impunity in which security forces in Narithawit seemed to be operating this week.

Preliminary information received by Human Rights Watch indicates that Thai security forces used excessive force in breaking up the demonstration in front of Takbai police station on October 26. Contrary to your assertions immediately after the incident, witnesses and media accounts report that police and military forces fired live ammunition at protesters who did not pose a serious threat to the police or to others. Aside from the seven protesters killed by gunfire, we have received reports of several people seriously injured with bullet wounds. Other witnesses and protesters say they were beaten after they were taken into custody by security forces and that they were thrown face down into military trucks and piled four or five high. Early forensic reports suggest that some detainees died as a result of broken necks.

The United Nations Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials states that law enforcement officials, in carrying out their duty, shall as far as possible apply non-violent means before resorting to the use of force. Whenever the lawful use of force is unavoidable, law enforcement officials shall use restraint and act in proportion to the seriousness of the offense. The legitimate objective should be achieved with minimal damage and injury, and preservation of human life respected.

We welcome your quick appointment of a commission of inquiry to investigate this incident. For this inquiry to help stem the already rising cycle of violence in southern Thailand, it must be ? and be perceived to be ? a credible and legitimate exercise, and not, as you publicly suggested, simply an effort to yield ?lessons for the future.? The results of this commission of inquiry must be given greater weight than the conclusions of the government-appointed commission that investigated the killings at the Kruesi Mosque in southern Thailand in April. That commission found that the level of force and type of weapons used by security forces were ?disproportionate to the threat posed by the militants,? but to date there has been no public accountability for those events.

Mr. Prime Minister, Thailand had made remarkable gains toward improved respect for human rights over the past decade. But during your tenure, Thailand has witnessed a growing disregard for the rule of law and human rights. Your government?s inadequate responses to previous human rights abuses have created an environment in which security forces trample the rule of law and violate human rights without fear of accountability. The predictable rise of a climate of impunity, and the resulting increase in violence, helped set the stage for the tragic deaths in southern Thailand this week. In order to counter this trend, you must move immediately to provide full accountability and respect for human rights throughout Thailand.

We look forward to your urgent attention to this grave matter,

Brad Adams

Executive Director, Asia Division

Human Rights Watch

now how can u support a thug who was responsible for the murder of thousands of his own country men and was responsible for the escalation of the conflict in the south ??

oh yeah .... he introduced 30 baht health care for all which the hospitals couldn't afford and gave out cheap loans that ppl didn't realise they were supposed to pay back !!

mind u he wasn't all bad .... one f**king family made millions ..... sorry make that billions during his time in office !!

[LakeGeneve]

I've got a few creases and Sassy did have a staple in her butt. ;-)

I've heard of people getting their stomachs stapled. :shock:

on some of these forums sometimes, I do wish some people would get their arses stapled

But mate then your post count would be about 2/3rd of what it is now.

how rather observant of you. I had no idea you've been checking out my arse.

I heard on the TF grapevine that even for a hetro guy it was worth a quick 1/3rd look !

[CiaranM]

As far as informed opinion, I have read a lot by political scientists and lecturers in Thailand and the opinion against Avashit is generally damning. Anyone who lives here would know (and I have this from my Thai friends) that there is corruption on all sides of Thai politics, yet there was a deliberately partisan operation by the courts (and certain unnameable others) to remove certain factions from power.

There. I've just wasted my breath again. But you can say goodbye to Avashit in January.

can u provide some on this damning "informed" opinion ???

Here are a few you might follow up. I have already posted a lot of what they said, so I am not going to bother again. They vary a little in what they say, but generally, a favourable outcome is not predicted.

Some political science professors who have commented:-

Sombat Chanthonwong, Thammasat University

Giles Ji Ungpakorn, Chulalongkorn University

Thawee Suraritikul, Sukhothai University

Sukhum Nuansakul, Ramkhamhaeng University

Panithan Wattanayagorn, Chulalongkorn University

Chris Baker, Chulalongkorn University

Thawee Suraritikul, Sukhothai University

Anyway, I am going to follow PeeMarc's advice and butt out (thanks, Marc.) There are too many imbeciles on these forums to make debate useful or worthwhile. Have fun shooting anything that moves now that you guys have emerged from hiding after the airport fiasco. Sadly, Thailand is f**ked and I have better things to do.

so basically there's ******* nothing there but a list of names .... highly enlightening !!

u do talk some complete and utter bollocks at times !!!

what f**king shooting ? thailands f**ked ?? get a grip !! u guys really don't have a clue.

i don't usually like to quote bigkus .... but if it's so f**ked why the f**k r u still here ???

[Loburt]

As I know and have spoken to some of the academics on that list, I know for a fact that while they have some reasonable criticisms of Abhisit, their opinions of him are not negative, nor do they think he's a bad choice to lead to country.

[Loburt]

Anyone who lives here would know (and I have this from my Thai friends) that there is corruption on all sides of Thai politics, yet there was a deliberately partisan operation by the courts (and certain unnameable others) to remove certain factions from power.

There is really only one unnameable in this country.

If you have evidence that HM was part of a deliberately partisan operation to remove certain factions from power, then present it.

Otherwise, stop slandering, in a very cowardly fashion, someone who has done a tremendous amount of good for this country.

[Neo]

As I know and have spoken to some of the academics on that list, I know for a fact that while they have some reasonable criticisms of Abhisit, their opinions of him are not negative, nor do they think he's a bad choice to lead to country.

Also, I don't think it's fair to call them representative of the general opinion of political scientists and lecturers in Thailand. AFAIK (correct me if I'm wrong here Loburt) they are largely pro-Thaksin, and Giles' book would not have been banned by his peers if they shared his opinions.

I think the best way to get a clearer perspective would be:

1 - read the details of what has happened, from the 1932 coup to the early personal life of Thaksin, and the political and personal lives of military leaders, PAD leaders and the privy council. Find out about who has really been calling the shots, why, and why it's not obvious.

2 - Talk to close Thai friends, the ones who can tell you things that are not written down anywhere.

Anyone who does that will see it's an extremely complicated situation, and that there are good reasons for the varied opinions of Thai people on these matters.