Mister Moobs Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Same thing. Been reading a bit on the subject of Uranium and Nuclear Fusion and the whole Nuclear subject from it's inception to the current era of attempted ban/non-proliferation and the Iran/NK conundrum. So, any opinions out there? I won't lead anyone. I've always been under certain assumptions about the origins of the Nuke capability of Pakistan as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Who gave man the bomb ? No one on earth is responsible or trust worthy enough for the bomb !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Because if it?s not love Then it?s the bomb, the bomb, the bomb, the bomb, the bomb, the bomb, the bomb That will bring us together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Moobs Posted July 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 The Earth gave man the Uranium. It was sitting there awaiting discovery. It has possibilities both peaceful and bellicose. We've done both. As is our wont... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 i don't recall how pakistan got it, but if i recall correctly the soviets kinda pulled a prometheus. kgb pwns the cia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 The Earth gave man the Uranium. It was sitting there awaiting discovery. It has possibilities both peaceful and bellicose. We've done both. As is our wont... And lo god be gave man the ability to f*ck up :shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 The Earth gave man the Uranium. It was sitting there awaiting discovery. It has possibilities both peaceful and bellicose. We've done both. As is our wont... And lo god be gave man the ability to f*ck up :shock: ******* up is one of those concepts that, had it not existed, we would have had to invent.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Moobs Posted July 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Hell, we took the ball from the Europeans and ran with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Hell, we took the ball from the Europeans and ran with it. and by hell, you showed us olde worlde types just how to perfect the practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Hell, we took the ball from the Europeans and ran with it. and by hell, you showed us olde worlde types just how to perfect the practice. you give us too much credit sirrah. it was a combination of a) you just plain didn't have the technology and you euroclowns are sooooo good at ******* up that you can't even get ******* up right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Hell, we took the ball from the Europeans and ran with it. and by hell, you showed us olde worlde types just how to perfect the practice. you give us too much credit sirrah. it was a combination of a) you just plain didn't have the technology and you euroclowns are sooooo good at f*cking up that you can't even get f*cking up right. careful there Z; you are beginning to sound like Jackboot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Moobs Posted July 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Hell, we took the ball from the Europeans and ran with it. and by hell, you showed us olde worlde types just how to perfect the practice. You Brits or Scots or Irish or whatever you're calling yourselves this week need to make up your minds. Are you part of Europe or not. One day you are. The next, you're not. Make up your minds, ya wishy washy twats... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Hell, we took the ball from the Europeans and ran with it. and by hell, you showed us olde worlde types just how to perfect the practice. You Brits or Scots or Irish or whatever you're calling yourselves this week need to make up your minds. Are you part of Europe or not. One day you are. The next, you're not. Make up your minds, ya wishy washy twats... of course we are part of Europe... oh hold on, no we're not... yes we are no yes oh f*ck off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Not sure how Pakitan got it, but Pakistan probably did a deal and swapped it for 50,000 coolies to work in the Bradford textile mills. Sadly, the mills no longer exist but the bomb does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Hell, we took the ball from the Europeans and ran with it. and by hell, you showed us olde worlde types just how to perfect the practice. you give us too much credit sirrah. it was a combination of a) you just plain didn't have the technology and you euroclowns are sooooo good at f*cking up that you can't even get f*cking up right. careful there Z; you are beginning to sound like Jackboot. and you're beginning to sound like a euroclown :wink: if you go down that road you'll be spouting off about 9/11 conspiracies and "yeah zeitgeist gets some things wrong but don't you think it raises some interesting points?" next... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodKarma Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 could someone please tell me where da he*l is pakitan anyway... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnie Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 could someone please tell me where da he*l is pakitan anyway... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Moobs Posted July 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 DAMN!!! Typos are a beeeee---ATCH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Moobs Posted July 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 OK, in the book Uranium by Tom Zoellner, Tom states that the Pakis stole the tech to create the bomb from Holland. A Paki national was working at a reactor. Dude had a low level clearance, BUT, because he was "likable" and all cuddly and huggable, he was allowed access to sensitive areas to which he was not cleared. While there, he took photos and made copies of blueprints and machinery and diagrams, etc. Even enlisting the assistance of others working at the plant. He did all of this because while he (Abdul Qadeer Khan) was working at the Nuke reactor, Bhutto announced that Pak would be pursuing Nuke Capability due to India's recent realization of Nuke Capability. A. Q. Khan contacted Bhutto and told him that he could get him the specs and he officially became a high level Pak spy. Even after the plant officials and gov't were notified in Amsterdam, they did nothing and accused the "whistle blower" of making "wild accusations. This was back in '75. Was Europe all PC and culturally sensitive even back then. lol Later, Khan purchased the equipment and parts such as spec aluminum tubes and such from companies in Germany and Switzerland. These companies were aware of the activities and were suspicious but blew it off with a "well, if we don't sell it to him someone else will" shrug and continued to sell the equipment to him. Even though they suspected that it was being used to build a Paki Bomb. Gotta love that. Afterward, Khan set up dummy companies in places like Dubai and started aiding countries like North Korea, Lybia and Iran in their efforts to build the bomb. Even after the German media exposed him, he was allowed to continue purchasing from European companies all of the sensitive materials that go into making the Nukes. The book states that the exposure only helped because after the articles and programs ran in Germany, European companies started calling HIM to get his business. Sounds like a most excellent non-proliferation treaty that's out there doesn't it. lol Holland later convicted Khan of espionage "in absentia." But Khan hasn't gone back so it's a toothless effort on the part of the Dutch. and before you guys write him off as a neo-con apologist. lol he's as liberal as they come in the US. His former place of employment was the San Francisco Chronicle. You can't get hired in Sf if you have a smidgen of rightist thinking in your brain. hahaha He has been featured on The Daily Show with Jonathan Stewart talking about this book. It was an interesting read. I have always thought that we gave Israel the bomb. Around the time of the '73 War. And I thought that we gave Pak the tech in exchange for cooperation against the Soviets in Afghanistan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Moobs Posted July 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 http://www.tomzoellner.com/uranium-by-tom-zoellner.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 OK, in the book Uranium by Tom Zoellner, Tom states that the pakistanis stole the tech to create the bomb from Holland. A pakistani national was working at a reactor. Dude had a low level clearance, BUT, because he was "likable" and all cuddly and huggable, he was allowed access to sensitive areas to which he was not cleared. While there, he took photos and made copies of blueprints and machinery and diagrams, etc. Even enlisting the assistance of others working at the plant. He did all of this because while he (Abdul Qadeer Khan) was working at the Nuke reactor, Bhutto announced that Pak would be pursuing Nuke Capability due to India's recent realization of Nuke Capability. A. Q. Khan contacted Bhutto and told him that he could get him the specs and he officially became a high level Pak spy. Even after the plant officials and gov't were notified in Amsterdam, they did nothing and accused the "whistle blower" of making "wild accusations. This was back in '75. Was Europe all PC and culturally sensitive even back then. lol Later, Khan purchased the equipment and parts such as spec aluminum tubes and such from companies in Germany and Switzerland. These companies were aware of the activities and were suspicious but blew it off with a "well, if we don't sell it to him someone else will" shrug and continued to sell the equipment to him. Even though they suspected that it was being used to build a pakistani Bomb. Gotta love that. Afterward, Khan set up dummy companies in places like Dubai and started aiding countries like North Korea, Lybia and Iran in their efforts to build the bomb. Even after the German media exposed him, he was allowed to continue purchasing from European companies all of the sensitive materials that go into making the Nukes. The book states that the exposure only helped because after the articles and programs ran in Germany, European companies started calling HIM to get his business. Sounds like a most excellent non-proliferation treaty that's out there doesn't it. lol Holland later convicted Khan of espionage "in absentia." But Khan hasn't gone back so it's a toothless effort on the part of the Dutch. and before you guys write him off as a neo-con apologist. lol he's as liberal as they come in the US. His former place of employment was the San Francisco Chronicle. You can't get hired in Sf if you have a smidgen of rightist thinking in your brain. hahaha He has been featured on The Daily Show with Jonathan Stewart talking about this book. It was an interesting read. I have always thought that we gave Israel the bomb. Around the time of the '73 War. And I thought that we gave Pak the tech in exchange for cooperation against the Soviets in Afghanistan. why would anyone declare him a neo -con apologist Dave? Think you sometimes get a wee bit paranoid bout this whole con v liberal thang. The facts on Khan are there for anyone to see, though his conviction was overturned later on a 'technicality'. Nothing new on covert supplying of parts and equipment either, though I would say that over the years, US firms have been as much to blame as Euro firms; pursuit of profit transcends national boundaries, non proliferation treaties and toothless UN resolutions every time!! Am sure there was some tech exchanges with the Pakistanis during Afghanistan but they already were nuclear by then and I still think that particular corner of the world is the most likely to press a button or buttons one day, far more likely than the pit bull posturing of North Korea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Moobs Posted July 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 why would anyone declare him a neo -con apologist Dave? Think you sometimes get a wee bit paranoid bout this whole con v liberal thang. Facetious: 1 : joking or jesting often inappropriately : waggish <just being facetious> 2 : meant to be humorous or funny : not serious <a facetious remark> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Moobs Posted July 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Oh, and I agree with the rest of it. Never said that the US was innocent. God knows that no one here on TF falls prey to that fallacy. I think it sometimes appropriate to point out that it's more widespread and not only an American or US business character flaw. Even in this instance, you felt the need to point out that "America does it too." As if the iniquity of the Great Satan hasn't been shouted to the rooftops of TF.com. lol :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Oh, and I agree with the rest of it.Never said that the US was innocent. God knows that no one here on TF falls prey to that fallacy. I think it sometimes appropriate to point out that it's more widespread and not only an American or US business character flaw. Even in this instance, you felt the need to point out that "America does it too." As if the iniquity of the Great Satan hasn't been shouted to the rooftops of TF.com. lol :wink: actually think it's more than 'America does it' or 'Europe does it'. Let's face it; multi- national corporations have yearly incomes in excess of most countries' gdps, and the tangled web of corporate ownership is now, imho, beyond ascribing bationalities to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 why would anyone declare him a neo -con apologist Dave? Think you sometimes get a wee bit paranoid bout this whole con v liberal thang. Facetious: 1 : joking or jesting often inappropriately : waggish <just being facetious> 2 : meant to be humorous or funny : not serious <a facetious remark> Irony: rony (from the Ancient Greek) is a literary or rhetorical device, in which there is an incongruity or discordance between what one says or does and what one means or what is generally understood. Irony is a mode of expression that calls attention to the character's knowledge and that of the audience. There is some argument about what qualifies as ironic, but all senses of irony revolve around the perceived notion of an incongruity between what is expressed and what is intended, or between an understanding or expectation of a reality and what actually happens, "when the literal truth is in direct discordance to the perceived truth." :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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