Are Thai guys too mollycoddled?

[SweetieBabie]

Give me a handsome mama's boy any day, i can make him into a man. :wink:

[digitalcat]

Give me a handsome mama's boy any day, i can make him into a man. :wink:

I THOUGHT YOU LIKE THE ROUGH INDIVIDUALISTIC TYPES?

[PeeMarc]

There is an old joke:

A capitalist comes to a tropical paradise and sees a native sleeping under a palm tree filled with ripe fruit.

He wakes the native and tell him, how can you sleep?

Go collect the fruits and sell them, when you have enough money hire other people to collect fruits and sell them. Start a company make tons of money become wealthy!

The native asked what for?

So when you are old you can sleep all day under the palm tree in paradise.

Anyway, Marc I understand your point of of view. I am just as disgusted with lazy useless people who exploit the good nature and hard work of others to sustain themselves. But that resentment comes from the hard work that one has put in to stake his independence and it's that because we feel an subjective injustice is being done.

When I was about 8 Chernobyl blew up and my parents sent me to Sakhalin (the Russian island above Japan) to live with my uncle in the dead of nowhere. My uncle thought it was a good idea to make me into a man from a mama's boy by teaching me to catch, kill, gut, clean and cook chicken and fish. I am very glad he spared the pigs that year. When I was almost 18 I left my house and supported myself all the way up to this point. I ever borrowed money from my family for school or any other needs.

I can say that I did miss out on the beauty of having my a*s wiped for me, and my laundry done, and my meals being more than fried chicken bought on the corner of MalcomX and MLK Blvd. There is something to be said about having a close knit family that comes to your aid at your whimper. I resent those guys and I am a bit jealous. Maybe our hard earned independence was time poorly spent in the light of lazy, pampered boys that cant wipe their own a*s.

occassionally, you do blow me away with your perspective mate. Well thought and well said (especially so early on a sunday morning)

[petey]

When I was about 8 Chernobyl blew up and my parents sent me to Sakhalin (the Russian island above Japan) to live with my uncle in the dead of nowhere. My uncle thought it was a good idea to make me into a man from a mama's boy by teaching me to catch, kill, gut, clean and cook chicken and fish. I am very glad he spared the pigs that year. When I was almost 18 I left my house and supported myself all the way up to this point. I never borrowed money from my family for school or any other needs.

I can say that I did miss out on the beauty of having my a*s wiped for me, and my laundry done, and my meals being more than fried chicken bought on the corner of MalcomX and MLK Blvd. There is something to be said about having a close knit family that comes to your aid at your whimper. I resent those guys and I am a bit jealous. Maybe our hard earned independence was time poorly spent in the light of lazy, pampered boys that cant wipe their own a*s.

Vlad, I think your Uncle's approach was the best one. It's best to be self sufficient and competent.

I haven't had enough time in Thailand to offer a pertinent opinion on this topic. I will state that I have talked with my wife about the large number of women we see going to work into the office buildings and have wondered where were the men.

[petey]

Give me a handsome mama's boy any day, i can make him into a man. :wink:

I THOUGHT YOU LIKE THE ROUGH INDIVIDUALISTIC TYPES?

That's exactly what he will be after she's done with him! :-)

[Crustyjuggler]

Interesting thread PeeMarc. My take on this would be to put yourself in the position of an unskilled Thai male worker. Imagine your options are....

Drive a motorbike taxi

Open bottles all night

Mindnumbing 12 hour shifts in a factory

Have a long lie and see what Mum has made for lunch

Unless the incentive is there to go out and get a decent wage people aren't going to do it. One day the circumstances in their life will change and they will have to. Unless that happens they'll never bother.

People are the same in the west. If they have no skills and they're looking at a poverty pay job then many take the option of social security. Free house and free money, from the government rather than their mother/family.

Doesn't seem so different to me - Thai guys live at home, falangs get a free house and dole money. Same same but different.

Rather than snipe at the people who take the easy way out. I would look at the situation slightly differently. I can understand why they do that. They don't have any (or can see) opportunities. If they had the chance of a decent standard of wage through work then I'm sure most would grab it with two hands. Both in Thailand and the West.

Anyway I don't want to sound like I'm sticking up for layabouts too much. Just that I can understand their position. Which is hopefully a temporary phase in their life. The real men are the guys that do the sh*t jobs and manage to raise a family on it. 8)

But isn't that the problem here, waiting for the incentive? Vision and creating ones own opportunities should come from the basics of education. Its the face thing that hinders everything, you can't point out an individuals mistakes without them loosing face. From a very young age i constantly strived to do a little better because mistakes i made were pointed out and i had just enough vision pushed on me via education, and trust me my education wasn't so great. I've seen the classrooms here where not a single child speaks out or questions a particular teaching, it's a truly awful situation and amounts to nothing more than the breading of sheep. Thailand needs teachers not shepherds. Seriously, how many Thais here have been inspired and motivated by particular teacher at school?

[PeeMarc]

in my own life, i look back to see what gave me successes in achieving my dreams...

- Vision and focus

- Dogged persistance (keep getting up whenever knocked down or fail)

- Energy and hard work

- Confidence

- (blind) Faith

In contrast, at times when not having all these 5 things is why i have failed at various times too.

Whether poor, rich or middle class, these still apply iMHO.

If a mother, or family mollycoddles a child too much (as for example i see with many thai guys here daily), they are actually destroying some of the very things that will help that boy be the best he can be. We can blame the thai education system, but i think these things come from family and upbringing.

And these are the future leaders in Thailand.

[sinderella]

For me it's not about Thai or not Thai.

Men or Women

I saw many farang are likely to be the same with those you explained.

Grow up is something that happen or don't.

It's individual.

[PeeMarc]

For me it's not about Thai or not Thai.

Men or Women

I saw many farang are likely to be the same with those you explained.

Grow up is something that happen or don't.

It's individual.

completely agree. I am not trying to compare. But you know that Thai is a very patriach society historically. Men have far more power and privilege here than women (often unwarrented and undeserved). And you know that it is often unfairly the burden of many women here to take care, clean up after, take responsibility for and serve men who otherwise could act differently.

Youll notice i am not entirely blaming these thai men or boys, since it is also women here who allow them, teach them and bring them up to be this way.

[fr_funboarder2]

and is it any wonder why corruption is so widespread here when these same guys just continue to find the easy way out of everything?

(ie Thai Way #467: If you don't get caught or found out, you haven't done anything wrong.)

so what are the first 466 thai ways ? can you give us a list ?

[PeeMarc]

and is it any wonder why corruption is so widespread here when these same guys just continue to find the easy way out of everything?

(ie Thai Way #467: If you don't get caught or found out, you haven't done anything wrong.)

so what are the first 466 thai ways ? can you give us a list ?

probably. But i would get a lifetime ban or get shot by drive by.

(Thai way #253. Never ever **** with Thai ego)

[PJack]

For me it's not about Thai or not Thai.

Men or Women

I saw many farang are likely to be the same with those you explained.

Grow up is something that happen or don't.

It's individual.

it is about Thai or not Thai in this example. boys are not mollycoddled in the States to this degree.. Not unless they are Thai kids, that is. I was told that once I left for college at age 18 I was always welcome to visit for as long as I wanted but if I moved back in then I was expected to pay rent. And this sounded fair to me. Not because they needed the money but because it was about growing up and M+D knew it was important to have experience supporting oneself. They were right, too.

that said. I wish my gf would mollycoddle me a bit.

also, I kind of like it that women do everything around here (in Thailand). I much prefer engaging with them than thai males.

[maidai]

Thai girls submissive always pleasing? no way

isnt that the reason why we like them so much

Women spoils the man, and guys dont like this? O please

as i said, that is why farang like Thai women, U have this type of confort over generations then Farangs too will be lazy

[PeeMarc]

Thai girls submissive always pleasing? no way

isnt that the reason why we like them so much

Women spoils the man, and guys dont like this? O please

as i said, that is why farang like Thai women, U have this type of confort over generations then Farangs too will be lazy

try reading the topic.

[digitalcat]

Thai girls submissive always pleasing? no way

isnt that the reason why we like them so much

Women spoils the man, and guys dont like this? O please

as i said, that is why farang like Thai women, U have this type of confort over generations then Farangs too will be lazy

try reading the topic.

It's about you 'omes

[GoodKarma]

Interesting thread PeeMarc. My take on this would be to put yourself in the position of an unskilled Thai male worker. Imagine your options are....

Drive a motorbike taxi

Open bottles all night

Mindnumbing 12 hour shifts in a factory

Have a long lie and see what Mum has made for lunch

Unless the incentive is there to go out and get a decent wage people aren't going to do it. One day the circumstances in their life will change and they will have to. Unless that happens they'll never bother.

People are the same in the west. If they have no skills and they're looking at a poverty pay job then many take the option of social security. Free house and free money, from the government rather than their mother/family.

Doesn't seem so different to me - Thai guys live at home, falangs get a free house and dole money. Same same but different.

Rather than snipe at the people who take the easy way out. I would look at the situation slightly differently. I can understand why they do that. They don't have any (or can see) opportunities. If they had the chance of a decent standard of wage through work then I'm sure most would grab it with two hands. Both in Thailand and the West.

Anyway I don't want to sound like I'm sticking up for layabouts too much. Just that I can understand their position. Which is hopefully a temporary phase in their life. The real men are the guys that do the sh*t jobs and manage to raise a family on it. 8)

I agree with dumper - eastern societies are a bit different than western societies...to ask the east to mimic the west and acheive the same results is a bit unfair...in all societies you have your lazy and your productive citizens male and female...I see this same phenomenom in the US. you have grown men 32 -35 living at home rent free and playing x-box all day bumming money off of mom and dad. and even asking me for dough too my arshe is even younger than them they should be loaning me money not the other way around.. not that I need to borrow any..

I believe this is a global thing not just a Thai thing. It appears to take a different twist in Thailand because eastern societies have a different cultural set up than the west and this phenom is handled a bit differently. mom's tend to nurture their sons a bit more. also unlike the west eastern cultures emphasize more on a family unit helping each of its members out unlike the west's the motto is when you hit 18 your right to manhood is to get out and get a job get your own apartment weither you have the skills or not. young man it's time to go.Don't read me wrong there is nothing wrong with either approach.

however carry on with the tread these are some very interesting experiences that I have read. from what I have read please be careful this is how some sterotypes are created. to just lump all thai males into one basket. here's my personal experience my first ex thai girlfriends pop worked long hours in the rice fields I actually went to work with him for 2 days.. so I know for a fact there are some hard working thai men...

I have seen it with my own eyes. his rice crops actually put her and one of her brothers through school. and her and her brother are putting her youngest brother through school....most thai cabbies work very hard as well. very unskilled job thailand has too many taxis now more than enough. street vendors also hustle as well. by the way.. nothing personal but stop chopping down maidai... him being a thai male I really would like to hear his point of view.

in my oppinion there are some very productive thai males out there I suggest you look a bit harder...and you will see this...

[maidai]

Thai girls submissive always pleasing? no way

isnt that the reason why we like them so much

Women spoils the man, and guys dont like this? O please

as i said, that is why farang like Thai women, U have this type of confort over generations then Farangs too will be lazy

try reading the topic.

I c u didnt get the point :roll:

Thai guys are lazy because their women spoil them

but am sure you got that :idea:

[falangboy]

The coddling actually extends to females in general. I have several female friends who are constantly looking after their brothers and/or boyfriends, who are, in turn, constantly doing things that would make me say enough is enough. Obviously its a different cultural perspective but it is one that drives westerners a little nutty. Not because the women are helping the people they love, but because, in our eyes, they are not helping them but encouraging them to continue doing idiotic things and not taking any responsibility in their lives. As others have stated, this is not all and maybe not even most people in Thailand, but I've seen it enough to know that it is pretty common.

[bigKus]

I believe this is a global thing not just a Thai thing. It appears to take a different twist in Thailand because eastern societies have a different cultural set up than the west and this phenom is handled a bit differently. mom's tend to nurture their sons a bit more. also unlike the west eastern cultures emphasize more on a family unit helping each of its members out unlike the west's the motto is when you hit 18 your right to manhood is to get out and get a job get your own apartment weither you have the skills or not. young man it's time to go

No, its not a thai thing. its global and individual. I wonder if they dont have 'mollycoddly' in farang lands or whatever worse.

I working together with 80 % staff of company are (thai) men, i feel comfortable with their gentlemen behavior and outstanding performance handling their jobs being a leader in their family, wife, gf.

[petey]

I agree with dumper - eastern societies are a bit different than western societies...to ask the east to mimic the west and acheive the same results is a bit unfair...in all societies you have your lazy and your productive citizens male and female...I see this same phenomenom in the US. you have grown men 32 -35 living at home rent free and playing x-box all day bumming money off of mom and dad. and even asking me for dough too my arshe is even younger than them they should be loaning me money not the other way around.. not that I need to borrow any..

I believe this is a global thing not just a Thai thing. It appears to take a different twist in Thailand because eastern societies have a different cultural set up than the west and this phenom is handled a bit differently. mom's tend to nurture their sons a bit more. also unlike the west eastern cultures emphasize more on a family unit helping each of its members out unlike the west's the motto is when you hit 18 your right to manhood is to get out and get a job get your own apartment weither you have the skills or not. young man it's time to go.Don't read me wrong there is nothing wrong with either approach.

however carry on with the tread these are some very interesting experiences that I have read. from what I have read please be careful this is how some sterotypes are created. to just lump all thai males into one basket. here's my personal experience my first ex thai girlfriends pop worked long hours in the rice fields I actually went to work with him for 2 days.. so I know for a fact there are some hard working thai men...

I have seen it with my own eyes. his rice crops actually put her and one of her brothers through school. and her and her brother are putting her youngest brother through school....most thai cabbies work very hard as well. very unskilled job thailand has too many taxis now more than enough. street vendors also hustle as well. by the way.. nothing personal but stop chopping down maidai... him being a thai male I really would like to hear his point of view.

in my oppinion there are some very productive thai males out there I suggest you look a bit harder...and you will see this...

Well said!!

[GoodKarma]

Well said!!

thx petey...

just relating my observations and my personal experiences

...however I really feel for Pmarc..it's not easy being the boss..people that run a business especially with a small staff workers are only human they occasionally have some crazy family issues going on sometimes..they will ask you for cash advances etc. running a business it's never easy you have to make sure you get profit for the business which goes right back into the business. you can only give so much. then you have to make payroll even when business isn't booming. these peoples family's and well being depends on you it's a lot of responsibility. and as for those 2 bums.. the professional x-box players ..they will always think you have a deep pocket.

[eagle]

Are farangs who get taken by bar girls too coddled. It's such common knowledge about the hustlers out there. A few dollars for an enlightening experience ain't so bad. Hell I have a hard time getting friends to loan me 50 bucks.

[digitalcat]

One thing that I don't understand is why do cultural relativists have to kill any point for the sake of political correctness.

This is a cultural observation very specific to Thai culture. YES, every culture has mooches, some more than others. There are different kind of mooches within one group.

When someone makes a cultural observation he/she is not saying ALL ____ people are this. Just enough to make it noticeable. Sure there are plenty of counter examples, but they don't disprove that this phenomenon exists.

I'll use my own culture as an example... Russians drink vodka, often in excess.

Not all Russians drink,

Not all drink vodka some like Rum

Not all drink in excess

Not only Russian drink vodka, most Slavic people love to drink.

There will always be one dude who will say "hey MAN, I know this one Russian guy never had a drink. Good for him good for you. Now what's your point?"

It neither disproves that Russians drink nor provides any solid proof that my statement is not true. If I say Russians are cannibalistic, you may have an easier time disproving my point.

Someone else will say "There are drunks all over the world, the Irish are infamous for benders"... Very good point, there's a chance that the Slavic people may have Irish ancestry.

Anyway. The point was Thai moms, sisters and girlfriends spoil their sons, brothers, and boyfriends. Some of those men become life long mooches. Some grow up to be great guys. Not all Thai ladies spoil their men. This does not stop this from being an observable cultural phenomenon.

Flipping PC people make me rant at @ 8am

[SweetieBabie]

Flipping PC people make me rant at @ 8am

Somebody woke up on wrong side of the bed.

[petey]

One thing that I don't understand is why do cultural relativists have to kill any point for the sake of political correctness.

This is a cultural observation very specific to Thai culture. YES, every culture has mooches, some more than others. There are different kind of mooches within one group.

When someone makes a cultural observation he/she is not saying ALL ____ people are this. Just enough to make it noticeable. Sure there are plenty of counter examples, but they don't disprove that this phenomenon exists.

I'll use my own culture as an example... Russians drink vodka, often in excess.

Not all Russians drink,

Not all drink vodka some like Rum

Not all drink in excess

Not only Russian drink vodka, most Slavic people love to drink.

There will always be one dude who will say "hey MAN, I know this one Russian guy never had a drink. Good for him good for you. Now what's your point?"

It neither disproves that Russians drink nor provides any solid proof that my statement is not true. If I say Russians are cannibalistic, you may have an easier time disproving my point.

Someone else will say "There are drunks all over the world, the Irish are infamous for benders"... Very good point, there's a chance that the Slavic people may have Irish ancestry.

Anyway. The point was Thai moms, sisters and girlfriends spoil their sons, brothers, and boyfriends. Some of those men become life long mooches. Some grow up to be great guys. Not all Thai ladies spoil their men. This does not stop this from being an observable cultural phenomenon.

Flipping PC people make me rant at @ 8am

Vlad, what constitutes Political Correctness? Offering a counter observation is just a valid as the original observation.

Using your own example, what if a person states that all Russians are drunks and do nothing but consume vodka. The next 50 people reply, "yeah that's right, I know ..... and they are total alcoholics, isn't it terrible". Is it being PC for the next person then to say, "hmmmm... that's not been my experience."?

Offering differing opinions challenges "group think" and avoids stereotyping.

And by no means do I believe that any offense was meant by the original poster and the rest of responses. I find the topic very interesting because of the quality of the replies.