Hundreds die in Iran from Flu and Meningitis!

[Hobbes]

Last time I checked, this site hadn't turned into Burkafriends.com yet?! :shock: :roll:

As far as that blinkered gent goes...

Human Rights Watch on violations in Iran

and

Human Rights Watch on violations in the Gaza

Amnesty International on violations in Iran

and

Amnesty International on violations in the Gaza

The UN Human Rights Council on prisoner treatment in Iran

and

The UN Human Rights Council on the fact-finding mission led by Justice Richard Goldstone regarding war crimes committed in the Gaza

The fact-finding missions report

Now, that would indicate to me that these liberal, tree-hugging, commie-loving do-gooders call out on anyone who's bend on pulling out toe nails or roasting testicles (or just sniping at white-flag waving civilians for the fun of it). But then you are blinkered and wouldn't be able to take notice of such unbiased, level-headed conduct since none can exist in your little world. :roll:

If I'm counting correctly than that would make it:

USSR - 2

USA (Kentucky Badlands) - 0

Have pleasant dreams.

8)

[Mister Moobs]

I can only take your priorities as those issues that you get your panties in wad about and scream loudest about in the liberal press as opposed to a report buried on a website that no one reads and you had to google search for...

[LakeGeneve]

Reports from Tehran families in recent days of receiving the bodies of relatives arrested at opposition rallies who later died from violent treatment in prison have fueled anger at the government.

Among the dead is Mohsen Rouhalamini, the son of a prominent conservative and adviser to presidential candidate Mohsen Rezai. His family said he died of cardiac arrest and bleeding in his lungs, and that his face had been smashed.

News of his death in prison last week spurred fury across political lines, prompting even some progovernment newspapers and lawmakers to charge the regime with excessive use of force and violence in crushing its opposition. Opposition leaders warned of a backlash and urged the government of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to reverse its actions.

"People will not forgive these acts. How could it be possible that someone goes into a prison, then his body comes out?" opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi said Monday in a meeting with teachers.

Some of the families say they are speaking out despite being warned against speaking to the media and holding funerals and memorial services. On receiving the bodies, they say, they were told to sign consent forms that named the cause of death as meningitis, flu or bacterial infection.

Sounds like Iran learned well from the good old USSR...but hey, they get free University education.

Ah, the good old days of the Soviet Union. How we all long for them. Everyone went to University for free. Everyone had a full belly. Truth was universal and brotherly love. Big Brother loved us all.

Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave...

I mean, what the f*ck?

You post something that, for once, right and left probably could agree on, and that (given you say you are opposed to military intervention in Iran) there could have been some intelligent debate on but you turn it into another you vs them furore.

After your little spat with DC in another thread, you just HAD to slip in another attack on the USSR.

Then it's another go at the goddamn liberals.

Then it's another go at the goddamn Europeans.

Then it's another go at goddamn anyone who disagrees with you.

Do you know what would happen if I was playing a gig and just kept putting the needle back to the beginning of the same record?

a) bottles would be thrown

the gig would be empty very quickly

Well you are turning into the internet equivalent of the 'one tune dj'

You are like the boy who cried 'wolf', except in this case it is better being the boy who cried 'liberal'.

You are so used to posting provocative statements that even when you post something of interest you have to add the soupcon of controversy.

You really need to get hold of some of that prime Afghani black, roll a fat one and chill the f*ck out!!!!

True. But sometimes, I wonder why the portion of the population who is so die hard in defense of Hamas against the terror that is Israel completely ignores the same abuses taking places when it is Arab on Arab or Muslim on Muslim or in this case Persian on Persian.

Israel kills an Arab/Muslim. Immediate outcry.

Any Arab/Muslim country kills a Arab/Muslim or any of their minorities and this same community of folks completely ignores it.

Can you tell me that this is not true?

Hell, beej will dig up any number of articles that puts America in bad light. But he'll spare not a minute to entertain the thought of similar reprehensible behavior in the world of Islam.

So I do what I do.

Perhaps, I should not.

Either way, if I had posted that with no comment, the immediate reply would have been a link from beej of some "atrocity" that was committed by America. And the conversation would have went that way as anti-Americanism is the favored topic of most of the political minded folks on TF. It is their life blood.

I think you answered your own rhectorical question there.

FOX Breaking News: White, hetero, male American fights for a voice against the oppressive dominant paradigm!

[Hobbes]

I can only take your priorities as those issues that you get your panties in wad about and scream loudest about in the liberal press as opposed to a report buried on a website that no one reads and you had to google search for...

Yes you are right, that Goldstone report was not easy to find and yet Israel and Hamas have their pant in a twist over it.

As for the rest...are you serious??? Is that the best come back/excuse you can come up with???

F*ck me, that is to easy to be even mildly satisfying. :roll:

No Google needed if you're a campaigner and now where to get information about the 'bad guys'. Just type hrw.org or amnesty.org in your web browser. Select the country you want information on and bingo.

Sure those blinkers aren't chafing? :roll:

:twisted:

[Mister Moobs]

So I do what I do.

Perhaps, I should not.

I think you answered your own rhectorical question there.

but then you'd have nothing to "whinge" about...

[Mister Moobs]

No Google needed if you're a campaigner and now where to get information about the 'bad guys'. Just type hrw.org or amnesty.org in your web browser. Select the country you want information on and bingo.

Yet, you've never taken time to post any of that. Instead, opting to spend your time bashing America.

Tells the tale. Do it not?

You'd much rather bash the easy target that won't target back. Brava! Mr. Knight!

[Hobbes]

No Google needed if you're a campaigner and now where to get information about the 'bad guys'. Just type hrw.org or amnesty.org in your web browser. Select the country you want information on and bingo.

Yet, you've never taken time to post any of that. Instead, opting to spend your time bashing America.

Tells the tale. Do it not?

You'd much rather bash the easy target that won't target back. Brava! Mr. Knight!

May want to read your initial posts again?!

You asked in your ideological laden rants why the 'liberals' don't speak out against the human rights violations in Iran.

I showed that you are, as usual, incite, provoke and just plain and simple talk through your derriere. And it may have eluded you but I have just taken the time to just post all of 'that' information. :roll:

If you represent what America (or correctly the USA) stands for, then no bashing is needed.

8)

[LakeGeneve]

So I do what I do.

Perhaps, I should not.

I think you answered your own rhectorical question there.

but then you'd have nothing to "whinge" about...

You have a funny habit of doing that Dave. You regularly accuse others of the conduct you engage in. You whine and play the victim that everyone is against you, complain to the mods (BTW, how is that official complaint of yours going?) and spit the dummy, yet it is everyone else who is a whinger.

You makes allegations that you cannot substantiate as you provide no proof, you blow things out of proportion and call people liars, yet when proved that you were wrong you do not acknowledge it as a REAL GI Joe would. Then you continue with your fabrications as you seem to truely believe that everything you type on the internet is the ONLY truth.

Your modus operandi is to post all manner of provocatively worded threads on your 3 or 4 pet issues expressing diatribes & views that are clearly intended to bait others and that we have read numerous times, yet you then complain again when some TF members disagree with you. But no it is never you, you never whine, nor whine, nor whine! It is always all those 'mean other' people who express some disagreement with some of your views.

Everyone here is happy to have the odd intense discussion where we air our views. But I have never seen anyone provoke so much and then act like a crybaby when others disagree with some of his views. It is really breathtakingly absurd that someone would consistently act in such a manner for so long. I guess it is really, really hard when someone feels that the whole world is against you and one has to keep posting the same tired issues in the hope something will get a reaction and you'll be noticed.

But none of this will mean anything to you, you'll just ignore it and continue your rants and diatribes. Maybe it is time to start the IJDC in the hope you'll just start talking to yourself in your boredom and give us all some peace and quiet for a while?

[Mister Moobs]

blah blah blah

sing that to the tune of the Smurfs

[Stramash]

blah blah blah

sing that to the tune of the Smurfs

[Mister Moobs]

No Google needed if you're a campaigner and now where to get information about the 'bad guys'. Just type hrw.org or amnesty.org in your web browser. Select the country you want information on and bingo.

Yet, you've never taken time to post any of that. Instead, opting to spend your time bashing America.

Tells the tale. Do it not?

You'd much rather bash the easy target that won't target back. Brava! Mr. Knight!

May want to read your initial posts again?!

You asked in your ideological laden rants why the 'liberals' don't speak out against the human rights violations in Iran.

I showed that you are, as usual, incite, provoke and just plain and simple talk through your derriere. And it may have eluded you but I have just taken the time to just post all of 'that' information. :roll:

If you represent what America (or correctly the USA) stands for, then no bashing is needed.

8)

I concede that the news is out there. Alas, it's in the fine print as opposed to posted on billboards as was Abu Ghraib and the like.

LG, I don't think that "everyone is against me." As a matter of fact, I know that some people are with me. It's the simple matter that I know who on this board is Tranzy-prog anti-Americans. You for instance. Hobbes. Beej. And a few others. It matters little that you disagree with me. I just like to throw it in your face every now and then.

A clue.

I have posted threads to which no one has replied. Guess what happened to them???

They quickly sank to the bottom.

That's the simple solution.

Yet, you reply and post whining rants about me whining. What's the diff?

[Stramash]

Dave, just a small point.

Do you not think it is completely natural for people to be concerned about human rights abuse, torture, political corruption, discrimination etc etc etc in our OWN societies and countries more than those in others?

Do we not have to sort out our own systems so we really can hold them up to others as shining examples of how to be before we tell others to change?

It does not mean that those problems are ignored, it just means that our own are prioritised first.

I have yet to see someone post that they support Hamas, or the Taliban or the Wahabbis, yet because the liberals and loony left choose to concentrate on changing the systems they are a part of, and can seek to influence, you constantly seem to level this accusation.

We should sort out our own houses before preaching to others that they must change, especially if we are telling them to be 'more like us'.

[eagle]

Want to invade Iran next do we now Moobs?

Is it next on your list?

Maybe wait till you've failed in Afghanistan before moving on to f*ck up the next country.

Eagle,

no complaints about beej. He's would have posted that same anti-American drivel no matter my second post or my title.

No words of wisdom for beej?

Come now. Let's spread the wealth.

Or is it as I say, you only care to whisper those sweet nothing into the ears of those who are not wholly aligned in Liberalism as are you? In this, you differ little from Neo and LG.

Thank your buddy BUsh for all the anti american BS your so on about. You get what you give and he screwed the american rep. YOu don't help the american rep either. Arrogance ,intimidation sheez so full of you...etc

and thank your buddy Clinton for so f*cking up the intelligence community during his tenure that by the time Georgey boy came to power, it was an idiot being advised by idiots.

Had there been the level of intelligence and analysts etc there were pre Clinton, there probably would not have been all the flawed bs on WMDs etc.

Sorry the FBI and CIA have been corrupt idiot smack dealers for decades. Don't try to lay it on Clinton. The only thing he did was make it ok to get some head cause it ain't sex.

[eagle]

Want to invade Iran next do we now Moobs?

Is it next on your list?

Maybe wait till you've failed in Afghanistan before moving on to f*ck up the next country.

Eagle,

no complaints about beej. He's would have posted that same anti-American drivel no matter my second post or my title.

No words of wisdom for beej?

Come now. Let's spread the wealth.

Or is it as I say, you only care to whisper those sweet nothing into the ears of those who are not wholly aligned in Liberalism as are you? In this, you differ little from Neo and LG.

I'd say Beej has it right. Afghanistan isn't going so well I'm hearing from the generals. But I don't think Obama is going to invade so easy. yea spread the wealth from wall street back to the people who got ripped off in the biggest bankjob in history ..........

[beej]

Essential watching ''Taxi to the Dark Side'' if we are going to rant about human rights abuses and pretend we are whiter than white.

Torrent Link for the Download...

http://www.mininova.org/tor/1855507

[Neo]

Want to invade Iran next do we now Moobs?

Is it next on your list?

Maybe wait till you've failed in Afghanistan before moving on to f*ck up the next country.

Eagle,

no complaints about beej. He's would have posted that same anti-American drivel no matter my second post or my title.

No words of wisdom for beej?

Come now. Let's spread the wealth.

Or is it as I say, you only care to whisper those sweet nothing into the ears of those who are not wholly aligned in Liberalism as are you? In this, you differ little from Neo and LG.

I'd say Beej has it right. Afghanistan isn't going so well I'm hearing from the generals. But I don't think Obama is going to invade so easy. yea spread the wealth from wall street back to the people who got ripped off in the biggest bankjob in history ..........

US in Afghanistan failure warning

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8266072.stm

more anti-American drivel from the muzzie loving terrorist supporting BBC

[LakeGeneve]

No Google needed if you're a campaigner and now where to get information about the 'bad guys'. Just type hrw.org or amnesty.org in your web browser. Select the country you want information on and bingo.

Yet, you've never taken time to post any of that. Instead, opting to spend your time bashing America.

Tells the tale. Do it not?

You'd much rather bash the easy target that won't target back. Brava! Mr. Knight!

May want to read your initial posts again?!

You asked in your ideological laden rants why the 'liberals' don't speak out against the human rights violations in Iran.

I showed that you are, as usual, incite, provoke and just plain and simple talk through your derriere. And it may have eluded you but I have just taken the time to just post all of 'that' information. :roll:

If you represent what America (or correctly the USA) stands for, then no bashing is needed.

8)

I concede that the news is out there. Alas, it's in the fine print as opposed to posted on billboards as was Abu Ghraib and the like.

LG, I don't think that "everyone is against me." As a matter of fact, I know that some people are with me. It's the simple matter that I know who on this board is Tranzy-prog anti-Americans. You for instance. Hobbes. Beej. And a few others. It matters little that you disagree with me. I just like to throw it in your face every now and then.

Not sure that I would characterise myself as anti-American; more anti-military industrial complex for sure, which the Americas do better than all. I do admit to having a tad degree of latent racism with most white americans (which is not uncommon is Oz) due to social conditioning. Unfortunately, many end up fulfilling the stereotype of being ignorant, fat and whiny folks.

However, of course all prejudices are based on stupidity as are mine, so I give every fat, ignorant yank I meet a fair go. Fortunately, some turn out to surprise. Very few though. Luckily working in international work I have met some great americans but the latent racism persits a little. It gets reinforced a little looking at some of the dynamics from afar of the current health care debate. At times people ask me if I am American which I find highly offensive

I went out for 6 months with a highly intelligent, very attractive, young white american lawyer many years ago. We were working togther in the same law firm. When we started going out the first thing I said to her was that I was a little bit racist when it comes to white americans. She gave me a good slap on the cheek and told me I was an idiot for thinking such a thing. I agreed that I was an idiot but just wanted to honest & get it out there before we got more involved.

Her response was fair enough and anyone being critical of my disposition is correct but I am human with my plentiful faults. As some commented in the Racism thread discussion we had last year due anyone who says they are completely free of racism or social prejudices against others is usually fooling themselves. I am getting there slowly.

That's the simple solution.

Yet, you reply and post whining rants about me whining. What's the diff?

Yes I agree it is the simple solution so perhaps refrain from restarting the same topic over and over and over again please.

The diff is that your whining about people disagreeing with you, that is your consistent response. Whereas I am trying to highlight the contradiction about the fact that you say you don't care about people disagreeing yet play the whiny victim when they do. Accept the disagreement and move on is my thought. I think that GAV summed it up quite well in his post.

[Mister Moobs]

as you wish...I concede.

[Mister Moobs]

as you wish...I concede.

[eagle]

L G wrote;

You have a funny habit of doing that Dave. You regularly accuse others of the conduct you engage in.

American republican , you can tell by the way he walks

dam liberals ......

[aurinkoukko]

Some of the families say they are speaking out despite being warned against speaking to the media and holding funerals and memorial services. On receiving the bodies, they say, they were told to sign consent forms that named the cause of death as meningitis, flu or bacterial infection.

Sounds about right, we got the same in China. Here kids go to "treatment for internet addiction" and return in body bags. You know going cold turkey from the Internetz can kill ya.

[Mister Moobs]

L G wrote;

You have a funny habit of doing that Dave. You regularly accuse others of the conduct you engage in.

American republican , you can tell by the way he walks

dam liberals ......

American Imperialist -- I'd rather kill all whom I say are the enemy. Then turn in and take out those enemies.

All enemies foreign AND domestic...

[Mister Moobs]

US in Afghanistan failure warning

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8266072.stm

more anti-American drivel from the muzzie loving terrorist supporting BBC

These folks are merely echoing GEN McChrystal. GEN McChrystal is merely repeating what has been known for sometime. The Bush era strategy was not working. McChrystal has also state that "all is not lost" and "victory is still achieveable. That seems to be lost in all the gnashing of teeth by those of your political bent. You guys always seem to concentrate on the "losing" message. Like the good old days of the Cold War. Now a days, it seems that the Soviets weren't so bad. The gulags were a lie, the genocide, regicide, purges, pogroms and democide were all a lie and everyone had free health care, free University education and it was a great land of milk and honey. So say the great minds of TF.

Why are you now denying that which you so proudly proclaimed at one time, Neo? :wink:

USSR - 39,000,000

US - 0

[Mister Moobs]

Dave, just a small point.

Do you not think it is completely natural for people to be concerned about human rights abuse, torture, political corruption, discrimination etc etc etc in our OWN societies and countries more than those in others?

Do we not have to sort out our own systems so we really can hold them up to others as shining examples of how to be before we tell others to change?

It does not mean that those problems are ignored, it just means that our own are prioritised first.

I have yet to see someone post that they support Hamas, or the Taliban or the Wahabbis, yet because the liberals and loony left choose to concentrate on changing the systems they are a part of, and can seek to influence, you constantly seem to level this accusation.

We should sort out our own houses before preaching to others that they must change, especially if we are telling them to be 'more like us'.

Iain, I agree somewhat. What turns my stomach is the defense of Hamas here. Yes, Israel crosses the line of destructive force many times. When you've been defending your people from decimation since the creation of your country, I would think that it would be difficult to be "proportionate" in response. What is proportionate to staving off Hamas is different than that which is "proportionate" to staving off Hamas with the support of every other Muslim Nation in the region.

If those critics of Israel spent half as much time condemning Hamas as they did Israel, I'd agree with you. Such is not the case. To many, Israel is wrong and Hamas is simply ignored. How many headlines do you see regarding Hamas shooting rockets into Israel. It's rare until Israel responds. At that time, the headlines are screaming not about Hamas shooting rockets but the Israeli response to the rocket attacks. How often is it front page news that hezbollah or hamas is killing Israelis. How often is it front page news that Israel is attacking.

Israel looks at these things historically. There have been other "wars of attrition" on the borders with Israel. That's exactly the reason that Israel took the Sinai and the Golan Heights. It's the same reason that Hezbollah took to attacking Israel from Lebanon. It's exactly the reason that Israel believes it needs the wall and land to separate them from the Palestinians.

Hezbollah attacks. Minimal headlines. The world barely notices and mostly only to shrug it's shoulders.

Hamas attacks. It's more of the same.

Israel retaliates. The world headlines explode. Front page news.

Now, I'm sure that those who abhor Israel will get on here and tell me I'm lying or I don't know what I'm talking about and that's fine by me. Insult away. In my opinion, this accommodation that the Left has made with Hamas and their ilk is tacit approval of the strategy of Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran and their ilk. I think the same of the press and organizations such as Amnesty Int'l, etc.

If one is always condemning one side of a disagreement. Never condemning the other or doing so only half heartedly. One is in effect taking sides. There is no way around it.

It's like saying that the Soviet Unions support of Egypt was not taking sides against Israel in the '73 War.

China wasn't taking sides with North Korea in '50 either.

Truman wasn't taking sides in '49 by not seeing Ho Chi Minh.

France wasn't taking sides in '76 by speaking out against British atrocities against America.

The US isn't taking sides when speaking out against atrocities in Iran.

Al Jazeera isn't taking sides showing the videos of the insurgency.

Carter wasn't taking sides by speaking out on behalf of the Shah in '78.

US citizens weren't taking sides by speaking out in support of Hitler in denying and covering up his actions. And some did.

The Western press wasn't taking sides in the 30s and 40s when they denied the effects of Stalin's programs and bought fully into the Soviet propaganda that covered up the Ukraine situation.

The Western Press wasn't taking sides when they wrote glowing reviews of Mao and downplayed his megalomania and genocidal tendencies.

The American press wasn't taking sides when they wrote of the savagery of the Indian Tribes in the West and glossed over the actions of US Gov't and it's Military Commanders.

I'm sorry but I don't buy it. When you make a conscious decision to attack one side while ignoring the actions of the other, you are acting in support of that other whether you want to conveniently blind yourself to that or not.

Yes, we need to clean up our own back yard and front yard as well. As you say that. I have to think that Europe is now perfect. As I find it odd that I read constant harping about America on here and rarely see a post about European countries and their problems. When I post something that concerns a problem in Europe, it's simply ignored as inconvenient or heads go swiftly into the sand.

The first post that I replied to here on TF was a post by an Austrian complaining about Americans and it's been pretty non-stop since I've been here. Yet, I am supposed to believe that there is no anti-American sentiment on TF. If it is "natural for people to be concerned about human rights abuse, torture, political corruption, discrimination etc etc etc in our OWN societies and countries more than those in others" then guys like Hobbes, beej, Neo and a few others think that it the US is their own society. Even to the extent of disregarding their immediate States. Unless Germany, France/Britain (wherever beej is from) and NZ have reached National Nirvana and Social-Welfare Utopia.

I posted an article about Europe companies being in worse financial state and in more debt than British and US companies. It was ignored. Now, if that article had stated the opposite, the Euros of the board would have jumped all over it whilst stating the superiority of the Euro Social Welfare system. :wink:

Now, I'm certain that this will be met with the accusations of whinging and whining. Fine. As you wish (not you Iain).

I'm used to the double standard by now. :wink:

[CiaranM]

US in Afghanistan failure warning

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8266072.stm

more anti-American drivel from the muzzie loving terrorist supporting BBC

These folks are merely echoing GEN McChrystal. GEN McChrystal is merely repeating what has been known for sometime. The Bush era strategy was not working. McChrystal has also state that "all is not lost" and "victory is still achieveable. That seems to be lost in all the gnashing of teeth by those of your political bent. You guys always seem to concentrate on the "losing" message. Like the good old days of the Cold War. Now a days, it seems that the Soviets weren't so bad. The gulags were a lie, the genocide, regicide, purges, pogroms and democide were all a lie and everyone had free health care, free University education and it was a great land of milk and honey. So say the great minds of TF.

Why are you now denying that which you so proudly proclaimed at one time, Neo? :wink:

USSR - 39,000,000

US - 0

now apart from DC defended his home country u will now produce evidence of the great minds of TF saying all of this .... won't u !!!

what's that .... u can't ..... well there's a f**king surprise.

this Dave in essence is why it's impossible to take u seriously and makes u an object of ridicule rather than someone u can have a reasoned debate with .... u make up ****, lie and then accuse ppl of saying stuff they haven't said anywhere or anytime !!

and then best of all u quote stuff and provide links which f**king contradict what U r actually saying !!!!

but it's not all bad .... does give me something to laugh at from time to time !!