Immigrants

[luckyphil247]

I'm against immigration because on a certain day of the week during a certain time, I can't go swimming at the local swimming pool. They have it reserved for muslim women only.

I'm against immigration because when a fellow worker prays, I have to work harder in their absence. Yet I don't get the same extra breaks.

I'm against immigration because a plan to build a proposed pub/hotel was ruled out because it was too close to residents that are muslim.

But more importantly, I'm against immigration because my local KFC store won't serve pork anymore :roll:

*It should also be noted that the fact I don't have any muslim friends nor do I intend to make any muslim friends in the near future or in my life time, should in no way imply that I am racist and/or bigoted. Afterall, Australia is still a free country and BBQ chops and beer isn't a crime (yet)

So you'll be sending your Thai wife back then.

Ermmmmmmmmm, she cooks a mean Penang Moo!!!, oh derrrrrrrrr :roll:

[English_Bob]

Ermmmmmmmmm, she cooks a mean Penang Moo!!!, oh derrrrrrrrr :roll:

She'd better switch to Penang Neua or Gai pretty damn quick before the New Aussie Settlers find out.

[LakeGeneve]

well maybe the aboriginies are a tad pissed off with all dem white fellas running around like it's their own country and imposing their 'culture' on the place......

Dat white fella "Kevin07" already apologised for dat

No he didn't.

He apologised to a specific group of indigenous Australians known as the Stolen Generations and for the specific role of the Federal government in taking children away from their families.

You may to consider spending less time getting worked up about serious issues like your 'lack of fast food options' and more time in understanding recent goings on in the Australian parliament.

[luckyphil247]

well maybe the aboriginies are a tad pissed off with all dem white fellas running around like it's their own country and imposing their 'culture' on the place......

Dat white fella "Kevin07" already apologised for dat

No he didn't.

He apologised to a specific group of indigenous Australians known as the Stolen Generations and for the specific role of the Federal government in taking children away from their families.

You may to consider spending less time getting worked up about serious issues like your 'lack of fast food options' and more time in understanding recent goings on in the Australian parliament.

Pork Precedes Politics Pal,

[LakeGeneve]

well maybe the aboriginies are a tad pissed off with all dem white fellas running around like it's their own country and imposing their 'culture' on the place......

Dat white fella "Kevin07" already apologised for dat

No he didn't.

He apologised to a specific group of indigenous Australians known as the Stolen Generations and for the specific role of the Federal government in taking children away from their families.

You may to consider spending less time getting worked up about serious issues like your 'lack of fast food options' and more time in understanding recent goings on in the Australian parliament.

Pork Precedes Politics Pal,

Ah I see now, I have had it back the front.

I always thought that people only got involved in politics to make pork? :wink:

[PeeMarc]

well maybe the aboriginies are a tad pissed off with all dem white fellas running around like it's their own country and imposing their 'culture' on the place......

Dat white fella "Kevin07" already apologised for dat

No he didn't.

He apologised to a specific group of indigenous Australians known as the Stolen Generations and for the specific role of the Federal government in taking children away from their families.

You may to consider spending less time getting worked up about serious issues like your 'lack of fast food options' and more time in understanding recent goings on in the Australian parliament.

Pork Precedes Politics Pal,

Ah I see now, I have had it back the front.

I always thought that people only got involved in politics to make pork? :wink:

or get porked.

[luckyphil247]

Ermmmmmmmmm, she cooks a mean Penang Moo!!!, oh derrrrrrrrr :roll:

She'd better switch to Penang Neua or Gai pretty damn quick before the New Aussie Settlers find out.

Could you imagine in years to come, people buying Pork on the black market. Shady characters wearing trench coats, having a quick look around before they approach you and then they open up their coat to show all the different varieties of Pork.

"I'll have 2 packs of smoked ham, one piece of bacon and that chop" while you slip 'em a 50 and start walking away discretely.

But, you can't help yourself, so you go back for some Pancetta and Prosciutto. Before you know it, cops come out and you're both busted :cry:

[LakeGeneve]

well maybe the aboriginies are a tad pissed off with all dem white fellas running around like it's their own country and imposing their 'culture' on the place......

Dat white fella "Kevin07" already apologised for dat

No he didn't.

He apologised to a specific group of indigenous Australians known as the Stolen Generations and for the specific role of the Federal government in taking children away from their families.

You may to consider spending less time getting worked up about serious issues like your 'lack of fast food options' and more time in understanding recent goings on in the Australian parliament.

Pork Precedes Politics Pal,

Ah I see now, I have had it back the front.

I always thought that people only got involved in politics to make pork? :wink:

or get porked.

Isn't that what the young parliamentary interns are for? Getting porked by the pork barrelling pollies?! I seriously misunderstood this whole pork thing.

Next thing you know someone will be making some ludicrous, irrational suggestion that in the future one can only procure pork via a black market......

[kaunitz]

Geez!

I went through my original post again and still I think it was very clear. Unfortunately, one or the other tried to turn my words in my mouth.

Oh, I said that this has nothing to do with Thailand - yes, and I can explain it: In Thailand, people are proud of themselves and they never would change for other influences, something that governments in Europe are doing. Let's just assume that Thai government takes the habits of Central European governments, what would happen:

- Buddha shrines in school areas would have to disappear because they could disturb other religions (see European Court of Justice judgement, recently on crucifixes in Italy)

- Public institutions would have to speak rather English (or another European language) than Thai.

- Due to security reasons, all food stalls and small businesses would have to disappear from busy (and also not so busy) roads - oh yeah, tell this to those who are fighting to make a living out of this!

- Dropping garbage outside garbage containers (even if they are full and you want to deposit your garbage right beside of the container) leads to a significant fine

- in (at least some) primary schools, you would have to speak English (or another European language) as Thai is nopt understood

- calling white people "farang" would bring you into the smell of being racist

Do you really want this???

But, transferred back again on Central European culture and understanding, exactly this happens! Isn't there a loop-hole in the law to kill stupid politicians???

So please, read and understand my original post first before picking on me (although, I have a wide back and thick skin on that!)

[kaunitz]

Oh yeah, and before I forget:

Wherever you go, you HAVE to adapt to the local culture. This does not mean that you turn to muslim in Damascus or that you adore Thai food. But it implies that you do not offend people there: In Arabic countries, you will accept that people are coming closer to you than you as a European want and you will not talk to women unless a close family member is present. In Thailand, you will smile and apply the Wai and you will take off your shoes wherever indicated (these are only some examples and are by far not complete). And in return, I expect the same from people coming to Austria/Europe, if they are not "only" tourists! I always tried to accustom myself to the local habits also, although I was "only" a tourist.

And I will never accept that people (from wherever they are coming from) are throwing garbage out of the windows, try to attract friends by blocking the lane and honking the horn etc., etc...

Oh, by the way: There are great examples of integration in my country, too: The garage that is changing my tyres is completely run by non-Austrians, but all of them speak at least a German that you can communicate with and their work is great! They tell you if your tyres are still good or if you need new ones and thay show you why - something that in "Austrian" garages might nor happen....

Did I make myself clear finally, English_bob? (no personal war here, but you were the one questioning me!)

[DANNO]

how about a question that we can answer...

since when has Kentucky Fried Chicken been dealing in Pig?

And did Col. Sanders approve this? (now we need Mr. Moobs)

:wink:

[kaunitz]

how about a question that we can answer...

since when has Kentucky Fried Chicken been dealing in Pig?

And did Col. Sanders approve this? (now we need Mr. Moobs)

:wink:

Well, if the pig is speaking chicken language....

[English_Bob]

I still haven't said if you are right or wrong yet, but you STILL haven't answered how your life is affected.

I gave you three options - two of which I agreed with and one I didn't - but you didn't address those either.

From your posts I can only find small things...

1) Litter thrown

2) Car horns

3) Blocked lanes

4) Sheep slaughtered

These may affect you, but is it fair to blame ALL immigrants?

Don't Austrians do at least the first three?

And I asked you to show examples of what your government is doing to force you to accept another culture.

It seems as though the answers are

1) government departments are multi-lingual and

2) some schools have a high proportion of foreign students - some of whom don't speak German.

Again, I don't feel that this is eroding Austrian culture and I don't feel that your life is being affected negatively.

The immigrants fixing your car probably arrived without speaking German, but learnt it at a later stage. Now they are part of your community - running a business which you are happy to patronise.

Don't you think the children in school who don't speak German yet, will learn?

As there is a Thai-analogy running here, let me continue.

Thai signs are written in Thai script (which I can read slowly) and in Latin script. Fifty years ago that wasn't the case. But some Government decided, "Let's make things easier for the foreigners in our country." And guess what? It IS easier.

As immigrants, farangs have made great contributions to Thailand opening many businesses and providing services for Westerners and Thais alike. Are the immigrants in Austria ONLY providing services for other immigrants? Do white Austrians go to their restaurants? Get their tyres changed at their garages?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your posts are not clear.

I know you think, "It's obvious, isn't it?"

But it's not. I live in Thailand. I don't read Austrian newspapers or watch Austrian TV. I don't see what you see every day. I have only YOUR information on which to base my answers.

So you MUST provide specific examples of

1) How is your life negatively affected by immigrants

2) How is the Austrian government forcing you to accept other cultures.

And stop being so defensive - I'm not fighting with you. I haven't disagreed with you yet. I just want more information before I make up my mind.

[beej]

Geez!

I went through my original post again and still I think it was very clear. Unfortunately, one or the other tried to turn my words in my mouth.

It kind of confused me as well.

Oh, I said that this has nothing to do with Thailand - yes, and I can explain it: In Thailand, people are proud of themselves and they never would change for other influences, something that governments in Europe are doing. Let's just assume that Thai government takes the habits of Central European governments, what would happen:

It happens, look how much Thailand has changed in the past 15 years. The Western influence is here for everyone to see. BUT its embraced, something maybe we can do in the west, rather than shout and scream about the changing situation, why not embrace it, like the Thai's have.

- Buddha shrines in school areas would have to disappear because they could disturb other religions (see European Court of Justice judgement, recently on crucifixes in Italy)

Whats wrong with this, a bit of respect for religious tolerance.

- Public institutions would have to speak rather English (or another European language) than Thai.

I've seen this here.

- Due to security reasons, all food stalls and small businesses would have to disappear from busy (and also not so busy) roads - oh yeah, tell this to those who are fighting to make a living out of this!

Its called health and safety/taxation, it'll happen in Thailand one day. I can't say I agree with it, but it will.

- Dropping garbage outside garbage containers (even if they are full and you want to deposit your garbage right beside of the container) leads to a significant fine

And so it should, find another bin you messy **** bag.

- in (at least some) primary schools, you would have to speak English (or another European language) as Thai is nopt understood

errr I think they call them international schools?

- calling white people "farang" would bring you into the smell of being racist

It will happen, its all part of the change, and education of a nation.

Do you really want this???

Some of it yes, some of it no.

Its change, and its what happens, its part of out evolution as an individual nation.

So please, read and understand my original post first before picking on me (although, I have a wide back and thick skin on that!)

I thought I did, I thought it was a dig at middle eastern people moving to Austria and how you wanted them to be kept out?

Am I right?

I've woken up to Church bells for years, they annoy the **** out of me, a Mosque would do the same, but I'm tolerant enough to respect people religions.

I'm proud that the UK is a multi national country, made up of people of all colours and creeds, from every nation in the world, and taken in as one of our citizens. I love going to their respective areas to buy food, and spices which I can't find in our super markets, hearing their language, drinking some mint tea. Its better than boring old fish and chips England.

Yes there is a higher crime rate amongst the Asian/African but this is because of our discrimination against them in the labor market, it'll change slowly, it always does.

[SweetieBabie]

Beej own this thread.

[English_Bob]

- Buddha shrines in school areas would have to disappear because they could disturb other religions (see European Court of Justice judgement, recently on crucifixes in Italy)

Whats wrong with this, a bit of respect for religious tolerance.

See, I think that part is wrong - I don't agree that churches should make way for mosques because it might offend the Muslims.

BUT I need the WHOLE story - which mosque, which church, who asked for the church not to be built, who decided not to build it.

- Due to security reasons, all food stalls and small businesses would have to disappear from busy (and also not so busy) roads - oh yeah, tell this to those who are fighting to make a living out of this!

Its called health and safety/taxation, it'll happen in Thailand one day. I can't say I agree with it, but it will.

Look at life expectancy - in the West it's much higher because human life is valued over profit. Therefore if street vendors are causing a danger, they will be closed down and / or relocated to a market or pedestrianised area.

I thought I did, I thought it was a dig at middle eastern people moving to Austria and how you wanted them to be kept out?

Am I right?

Yes there is a higher crime rate amongst the Asian/African but this is because of our discrimination against them in the labor market, it'll change slowly, it always does.

I disagree - I think Asian and Black and Caucasian crime isn't caused by discrimination... There are certain crimes that are historically linked to races.

Asian crime - is often high-tech, scams, fraud, extortion and usually perpetrated against other Asians.

Black crime - is drug related, violent, rape, burglary and car theft and victims are of all races.

White crime - fraud, embezzlement, sexual abuse, less violent and usually perpetrated against other Causcasians.

Certain crimes 'go with' certain races, regardless of society.

Although interestingly, there are very few black serial killers - they tend to be white.

[CiaranM]

I'm against immigration because on a certain day of the week during a certain time, I can't go swimming at the local swimming pool. They have it reserved for muslim women only.

I'm against immigration because when a fellow worker prays, I have to work harder in their absence. Yet I don't get the same extra breaks.

I'm against immigration because a plan to build a proposed pub/hotel was ruled out because it was too close to residents that are muslim.

But more importantly, I'm against immigration because my local KFC store won't serve pork anymore :roll:

how do u think ur ancestors got to australia .... i'll bet the aborigines wish they hadn't bothered !!!

[beej]

- Buddha shrines in school areas would have to disappear because they could disturb other religions (see European Court of Justice judgement, recently on crucifixes in Italy)

Whats wrong with this, a bit of respect for religious tolerance.

See, I think that part is wrong - I don't agree that churches should make way for mosques because it might offend the Muslims.

BUT I need the WHOLE story - which mosque, which church, who asked for the church not to be built, who decided not to build it.

Church/Mosque, one or the other makes no difference to me, and my life personally.

I think kaunitz is saying that the Christian cross has to be removed from Schools in Austria because Muslim Children attend these school and they find it offensive.

I agree that the Christian Cross has no place in Schools or anywhere other than places of worship. These symbols should not be forced upon our youth.

[LakeGeneve]

Oh yeah, and before I forget:

Wherever you go, you HAVE to adapt to the local culture. This does not mean that you turn to muslim in Damascus or that you adore Thai food. But it implies that you do not offend people there: In Arabic countries, you will accept that people are coming closer to you than you as a European want and you will not talk to women unless a close family member is present. In Thailand, you will smile and apply the Wai and you will take off your shoes wherever indicated (these are only some examples and are by far not complete). And in return, I expect the same from people coming to Austria/Europe, if they are not "only" tourists! I always tried to accustom myself to the local habits also, although I was "only" a tourist.

And I will never accept that people (from wherever they are coming from) are throwing garbage out of the windows, try to attract friends by blocking the lane and honking the horn etc., etc...

Oh, by the way: There are great examples of integration in my country, too: The garage that is changing my tyres is completely run by non-Austrians, but all of them speak at least a German that you can communicate with and their work is great! They tell you if your tyres are still good or if you need new ones and thay show you why - something that in "Austrian" garages might nor happen....

Did I make myself clear finally, English_bob? (no personal war here, but you were the one questioning me!)

I am joining in the chorus of confusion here. I am a bit slow on the uptake as at first I was wondering why Australians are speaking German and why they are slaughtering the sheep and not shagging them.

Trying to make a point here about how people we all get confused by our own ignorance of other cultures, places and their people. People often engage in stereotypes when they don't know the specifics. Hence, you would have been asked many a time about the beaches in Austria as I have been asked sometimes about the ski fields in the Alps or how it feels ot have Hilter born in my country.

I do agree that it is good to try to respect local culture when visiting another place especially if one wants to gain insight into another culture but I do also agree with beej that one doesn't have to adopt it. Culture is fluid not fixed and all communities evolve as differing influences shape them.

I see many Australians in my travels act in stupid ways in foreign places but I also see many enjoy their new abodes but immersing themselves in local customs and enriching the experience.

EB has attempted a few times to illicit some clear and more specific information regarding your concerns. He may well share in some of those concerns and may others. But frankly, you have referred to pretty petty local council type examples - garbage, blocking lanes and honking horns - which in limited my experience, having lived in about 10 countries, people complain about these issues everywhere regardless of race, creed, class or religion. So your examples seem rather petty and without more context the link to immigration appears tenuous?

What is at the heart of your concern exactly?

[beej]

I'm against immigration because on a certain day of the week during a certain time, I can't go swimming at the local swimming pool. They have it reserved for muslim women only.

I'm against immigration because when a fellow worker prays, I have to work harder in their absence. Yet I don't get the same extra breaks.

I'm against immigration because a plan to build a proposed pub/hotel was ruled out because it was too close to residents that are muslim.

But more importantly, I'm against immigration because my local KFC store won't serve pork anymore :roll:

how do u think ur ancestors got to australia .... i'll bet the aborigines wish they hadn't bothered !!!

Bet the poor mother ******* Aborigines were pissed they couldn't use the pool on Thursdays!

[CiaranM]

why don't u f**k off and invade poland ... should solve all ur problems !! :roll: :roll: :roll:

[CiaranM]

I'm against immigration because on a certain day of the week during a certain time, I can't go swimming at the local swimming pool. They have it reserved for muslim women only.

I'm against immigration because when a fellow worker prays, I have to work harder in their absence. Yet I don't get the same extra breaks.

I'm against immigration because a plan to build a proposed pub/hotel was ruled out because it was too close to residents that are muslim.

But more importantly, I'm against immigration because my local KFC store won't serve pork anymore :roll:

*It should also be noted that the fact I don't have any muslim friends nor do I intend to make any muslim friends in the near future or in my life time, should in no way imply that I am racist and/or bigoted. Afterall, Australia is still a free country and BBQ chops and beer isn't a crime (yet)

So you'll be sending your Thai wife back then.

who gets to keep the baby ???

[Neo]

I'm against immigration because on a certain day of the week during a certain time, I can't go swimming at the local swimming pool. They have it reserved for muslim women only.

I'm against immigration because when a fellow worker prays, I have to work harder in their absence. Yet I don't get the same extra breaks.

I'm against immigration because a plan to build a proposed pub/hotel was ruled out because it was too close to residents that are muslim.

But more importantly, I'm against immigration because my local KFC store won't serve pork anymore :roll:

*It should also be noted that the fact I don't have any muslim friends nor do I intend to make any muslim friends in the near future or in my life time, should in no way imply that I am racist and/or bigoted. Afterall, Australia is still a free country and BBQ chops and beer isn't a crime (yet)

So you'll be sending your Thai wife back then.

who gets to keep the baby ???

Those who are entitled to be there of course.... the Aborigines

[beej]

I disagree - I think Asian and Black and Caucasian crime isn't caused by discrimination... There are certain crimes that are historically linked to races.

Asian crime - is often high-tech, scams, fraud, extortion and usually perpetrated against other Asians.

Black crime - is drug related, violent, rape, burglary and car theft and victims are of all races.

White crime - fraud, embezzlement, sexual abuse, less violent and usually perpetrated against other Causcasians.

Certain crimes 'go with' certain races, regardless of society.

Although interestingly, there are very few black serial killers - they tend to be white.

But all of these crimes exists in non mixed areas of the UK/US/EU

Just committed more by certain ethnic groups, why? I personally believe it is still because of racial discrimination, and lack of education in the poorer areas.

Poorer because the percentage of someone from an Arab/African background to get a higher paid job in the UK is far less than a Caucasian. Its a downward spiral, and a racially charged spiral thats being made worse by Nationalist parties and Nationalist media.

[LakeGeneve]

- Buddha shrines in school areas would have to disappear because they could disturb other religions (see European Court of Justice judgement, recently on crucifixes in Italy)

Whats wrong with this, a bit of respect for religious tolerance.

See, I think that part is wrong - I don't agree that churches should make way for mosques because it might offend the Muslims.

BUT I need the WHOLE story - which mosque, which church, who asked for the church not to be built, who decided not to build it.

- Due to security reasons, all food stalls and small businesses would have to disappear from busy (and also not so busy) roads - oh yeah, tell this to those who are fighting to make a living out of this!

Its called health and safety/taxation, it'll happen in Thailand one day. I can't say I agree with it, but it will.

Look at life expectancy - in the West it's much higher because human life is valued over profit. Therefore if street vendors are causing a danger, they will be closed down and / or relocated to a market or pedestrianised area.

I thought I did, I thought it was a dig at middle eastern people moving to Austria and how you wanted them to be kept out?

Am I right?

Yes there is a higher crime rate amongst the Asian/African but this is because of our discrimination against them in the labor market, it'll change slowly, it always does.

I disagree - I think Asian and Black and Caucasian crime isn't caused by discrimination... There are certain crimes that are historically linked to races.

Asian crime - is often high-tech, scams, fraud, extortion and usually perpetrated against other Asians.

Black crime - is drug related, violent, rape, burglary and car theft and victims are of all races.

White crime - fraud, embezzlement, sexual abuse, less violent and usually perpetrated against other Causcasians.

Certain crimes 'go with' certain races, regardless of society.

Although interestingly, there are very few black serial killers - they tend to be white.

Dave this is a little bizarre. You make the very pertinent point that the OP needs to give more specific info and context regarding his generalised info.

Then you go and undermine your point and contradict yourself by engaging in some pretty darn poor generalised racially based criminalogical summary which contains no specific statisical reference, criminal jurisdiction basis nor relevence to a specific place. It really it rather meaningless and about as useful as the OP expressing some vague concerns about immigration and using the example of people blocking lanes.

Pretty flimsy mate and completely out of the norm for you.

I have done some criminology research in the distant past, (I am not a criminalogist), worked in criminal law for a number of years and international law the last 10. One cannot say that people of certain races generally commit certain crimes without drawing from a specific set of data for a specific period of time in a specific criminal jurisdiction. I think you will acknowledge that, no?

And even that doesn't get you far and any data can be suspect, poorly aggregated and difficult to compare with other jurisdictions. I guess you and beej are talking about England or the UK but that doesn't even get one far as regional differences in offender profiles can be very stark.

For example, offending rates and convicted offender profiles can be very greatly from one suburb to another in one city, say London, so I cannot fathom how you arrive at such an all encompassing statement. Your racial profile may be true for one place but not necessary another just miles away. More patently, your profile is not going to fit so well in Japan, Kenya or Chile. Very dodgy stuff to try to encompass it all in one.

I am genuinely interest to know exactly which criminogical research you based your statement on - hopefully more than The Sun - and more importantly which place in the world are you referring to pls? Cheers