Israel does it again...

[CiaranM]

FFS ... show some evidence that the f**king blockade is legal !!! get a f**king grip !! the only violent attack was f**king murdering scumbag terrorists attacking a boat in international waters !! but then again ... jews fighting back against the nazis in the warsaw ghetto were probably asking for it also !!!

next thing u'll be telling us that somali pirates r just misunderstood !!!

Calm down... I read the link posted which definitely makes the legality or illegality less than black and white. You know Israel are going to find lawyers to make a technical case for the blockades.

There was definitely violence from the people on the boat. The video evidence clearly shows people being badly beaten by multiple assailants and one guy being thrown from the boat.

I think there was definitely an element of provocation from the flotilla. Without being on the scene, it's impossible for me to say whether the soldiers' reaction was disproportionate.

if u r being attacked by pirates u r entitled to defend urself .... whether this was wise or not is debatable !!!

ehhhhhhhh .... the provocation was from pirates attacking a ship in international waters !!! :roll: :roll:

[English_Bob]

if u r being attacked by pirates u r entitled to defend urself .... whether this was wise or not is debatable !!!

ehhhhhhhh .... the provocation was from pirates attacking a ship in international waters !!! :roll: :roll:

But they weren't pirates. They were commandos armed with automatic weapons - it's not debatable - attacking them was not wise.

The soldiers weren't going to steal anything or kill anyone. If they'd gone on the boat and found nothing that contravened their blockade (which THEY consider legal), they'd have left them to continue.

Of course the people on the boat knew that Israel would react... Israel told them that.

[CiaranM]

if u r being attacked by pirates u r entitled to defend urself .... whether this was wise or not is debatable !!!

ehhhhhhhh .... the provocation was from pirates attacking a ship in international waters !!! :roll: :roll:

But they weren't pirates. They were commandos armed with automatic weapons - it's not debatable - attacking them was not wise.

The soldiers weren't going to steal anything or kill anyone. If they'd gone on the boat and found nothing that contravened their blockade (which THEY consider legal), they'd have left them to continue.

Of course the people on the boat knew that Israel would react... Israel told them that.

no matter what way u try to spin it they were pirates .... armed commandos attacking a ship in international waters is piracy !!!

i don't think israel considers it's blockade legal ... but i also think they don't f**king care !!

[beej]

The soldiers weren't going to steal anything or kill anyone. If they'd gone on the boat and found nothing that contravened their blockade (which THEY consider legal), they'd have left them to continue.

This sadly isn't the case.

It all goes into an Israeli port when its turned over and may or may not make it into Gaza..... see what happened to the ship yesterday, the one aptly named after the girl crushed by an Israeli bulldozer.

[digitalcat]

Aaaaaarrrrrrrr ya be pirates eh?

You really like that term, me too makes me want to join the Israli army a bit. Hello I am a pirate commando ninja! Best titile ever.

I think you are mixing things up. Does the act of killing someone automatically make you a murderer? If someone breaks into your house and you kill them in process of defending yourself, are you a murderer? You did shoot them, but no one besides that person's family will feel that way.

In this case the soldiers aren't a bunch of Somali assholes on a speed boat trying to steal the boats contents for their personal benefit. Or for that matter ghosts searching for their lost gold to break a curse. The flotilla made it clear they were going into the Gaza, Israel made it clear they were not going to let that happen. What happened as poorly executed as it was, was going to happen on way or another. The did not think it through but the end result was inevitable.

So no, as romantic as it sounds not piracy.

[CiaranM]

Aaaaaarrrrrrrr ya be pirates eh?

You really like that term, me too makes me want to join the Israli army a bit. Hello I am a pirate commando ninja! Best titile ever.

I think you are mixing things up. Does the act of killing someone automatically make you a murderer? If someone breaks into your house and you kill them in process of defending yourself, are you a murderer? You did shoot them, but no one besides that person's family will feel that way.

In this case the soldiers aren't a bunch of Somali assholes on a speed boat trying to steal the boats contents for their personal benefit. Or for that matter ghosts searching for their lost gold to break a curse. The flotilla made it clear they were going into the Gaza, Israel made it clear they were not going to let that happen. What happened as poorly executed as it was, was going to happen on way or another. The did not think it through but the end result was inevitable.

So no, as romantic as it sounds not piracy.

this boat was not entering israel waters .... it was piracy !!! they may not be somali assholes ... but they r still pirates and murdering assholes !!

and they were not "breaking into any israel house" .... in fact to use ur example .... the israelis were burglars breaking into someone elses house and then murdering them when they tried to resist .... so yes as well as piracy it was also murder !!

[English_Bob]

The analogies don't work...

They can't be pirates because they aren't stealing. They can't be burglars for the same reason. The 'house' analogy doesn't work either... they weren't sneaking in under cover of darkness, they were going to look for weapons that could be used against their own people.

I'm not trying to 'spin' anything here - I just don't think it's as simple as 'murderers on a boat'. Yesterday's incident shows how the operation could have been done without deaths.

The Palestine and Israel conflict has too many incidents and characters to boil down into good guys and bad guys. Hamas have shown their violent nature many times.

[digitalcat]

Aaaaaarrrrrrrr ya be pirates eh?

You really like that term, me too makes me want to join the Israli army a bit. Hello I am a pirate commando ninja! Best titile ever.

I think you are mixing things up. Does the act of killing someone automatically make you a murderer? If someone breaks into your house and you kill them in process of defending yourself, are you a murderer? You did shoot them, but no one besides that person's family will feel that way.

In this case the soldiers aren't a bunch of Somali assholes on a speed boat trying to steal the boats contents for their personal benefit. Or for that matter ghosts searching for their lost gold to break a curse. The flotilla made it clear they were going into the Gaza, Israel made it clear they were not going to let that happen. What happened as poorly executed as it was, was going to happen on way or another. The did not think it through but the end result was inevitable.

So no, as romantic as it sounds not piracy.

this boat was not entering israel waters .... it was piracy !!! they may not be somali assholes ... but they r still pirates and murdering assholes !!

and they were not "breaking into any israel house" .... in fact to use ur example .... the israelis were burglars breaking into someone elses house and then murdering them when they tried to resist .... so yes as well as piracy it was also murder !!

I used the house analogy to give an example of labels, such as murder. that was an example of killing someone yet not being called a murderer. Hence Israel is an example of boarding a ship with force not being piracy.

I gave a better analogy earlier about sharing a driveway with a neighbor that wants to kill you.

[CiaranM]

The analogies don't work...

They can't be pirates because they aren't stealing. They can't be burglars for the same reason. The 'house' analogy doesn't work either... they weren't sneaking in under cover of darkness, they were going to look for weapons that could be used against their own people.

I'm not trying to 'spin' anything here - I just don't think it's as simple as 'murderers on a boat'. Yesterday's incident shows how the operation could have been done without deaths.

The Palestine and Israel conflict has too many incidents and characters to boil down into good guys and bad guys. Hamas have shown their violent nature many times.

forcibly entering and taking over a boat in international waters is piracy. forcibly .... at gun point .... making ppl go somewhere they don't want to go is kidnap. taking goods illegally from someone who owns those goods or is entrusted with their care IS stealing ... so the analogies DO work.

and anybody who really believes that israel was taking over that boat to search for weapons is either deluded, brain washed or stupid !! u can be damm f**king sure isreal knew exactly what was on that boat !!!

yesterdays incident shows what happens IF u choose to allow israel to carry out piracy without resistance !!! ie ... allow them to do whatever the f**k they want whenever the f**k they want to do it !! something the international community has allowed israel to do for far too long !!

[beej]

They raided a ship full of 500 people in international waters at the dead of night with a tiny handful of commandos zipped in by Helicopters.

Thats ******* retarded, plain and simple.

If they had broken the illegal blockade and were in Israeli waters then things might have been slightly different.

[digitalcat]

The analogies don't work...

They can't be pirates because they aren't stealing. They can't be burglars for the same reason. The 'house' analogy doesn't work either... they weren't sneaking in under cover of darkness, they were going to look for weapons that could be used against their own people.

I'm not trying to 'spin' anything here - I just don't think it's as simple as 'murderers on a boat'. Yesterday's incident shows how the operation could have been done without deaths.

The Palestine and Israel conflict has too many incidents and characters to boil down into good guys and bad guys. Hamas have shown their violent nature many times.

forcibly entering and taking over a boat in international waters is piracy. forcibly .... at gun point .... making ppl go somewhere they don't want to go is kidnap. taking goods illegally from someone who owns those goods or is entrusted with their care IS stealing ... so the analogies DO work.

and anybody who really believes that israel was taking over that boat to search for weapons is either deluded, brain washed or stupid !! u can be damm f**king sure isreal knew exactly what was on that boat !!!

yesterdays incident shows what happens IF u choose to allow israel to carry out piracy without resistance !!! ie ... allow them to do whatever the f**k they want whenever the f**k they want to do it !! something the international community has allowed israel to do for far too long !!

SOOOO if tomorrow you get pulled over by a police and you resist and they arrest you at gun point. They tow your car and charge you for the tow, as well as hold you for 24 hours and release you without any charges but confiscating your beloved beer. That's racketeering, piracy and kidnapping? Right, international waters. Got you. That's your whole point isn't it? AND having a different opinion than you is deluded, brain washed or stupid. Got you. May I see your PHD in Middle East Studies, International Politics or post World War 2 Zionism? No? Really? So your opinion is just your opinion equally liable to being considered deluded, brain washed or stupid?

Ok good. We are done talking.

[CiaranM]

The analogies don't work...

They can't be pirates because they aren't stealing. They can't be burglars for the same reason. The 'house' analogy doesn't work either... they weren't sneaking in under cover of darkness, they were going to look for weapons that could be used against their own people.

I'm not trying to 'spin' anything here - I just don't think it's as simple as 'murderers on a boat'. Yesterday's incident shows how the operation could have been done without deaths.

The Palestine and Israel conflict has too many incidents and characters to boil down into good guys and bad guys. Hamas have shown their violent nature many times.

forcibly entering and taking over a boat in international waters is piracy. forcibly .... at gun point .... making ppl go somewhere they don't want to go is kidnap. taking goods illegally from someone who owns those goods or is entrusted with their care IS stealing ... so the analogies DO work.

and anybody who really believes that israel was taking over that boat to search for weapons is either deluded, brain washed or stupid !! u can be damm f**king sure isreal knew exactly what was on that boat !!!

yesterdays incident shows what happens IF u choose to allow israel to carry out piracy without resistance !!! ie ... allow them to do whatever the f**k they want whenever the f**k they want to do it !! something the international community has allowed israel to do for far too long !!

SOOOO if tomorrow you get pulled over by a police and you resist and they arrest you at gun point. They tow your car and charge you for the tow, as well as hold you for 24 hours and release you without any charges but confiscating your beloved beer. That's racketeering, piracy and kidnapping? Right, international waters. Got you. That's your whole point isn't it? AND having a different opinion than you is deluded, brain washed or stupid. Got you. May I see your PHD in Middle East Studies, International Politics or post World War 2 Zionism? No? Really? So your opinion is just your opinion equally liable to being considered deluded, brain washed or stupid?

Ok good. We are done talking.

try and read my post properly next time ... ok ?? :roll: :roll:

israel boarded that ship to prevent the illegal blockade being broken !!!

[beej]

History of Israel, from a slightly Arab slanted side of the table, but still some good facts.

[DJTX]

f*ck I love Fox News.... do people REALLY watch this sh*t?

http://politicalcorrection.org/fpmatters/201006040001

Millions watch Beck and thats scary. Fox supposedly has high ratings and a friend of mine who fixes appliances says everywhere he goes people have it on the TV. JOn Stewart hacks on Fox constantly !

What is really scary is the same guy that owns Fox owns all of the following:

Film

20th Century Fox

Twentieth Century Fox Español

Twentieth Century Fox International

Twentieth Century Fox Television

Fox Searchlight Pictures

Fox Studios Australia

Fox Studios Baja

Fox Studios Los Angeles

Fox Television Studios

[edit] Television

[edit] Broadcast/Production assets

20th Century Fox Television

20th Television

bTV

Foxtel

Fox Broadcasting Company

Fox International Channels Italy

Fox Kids (1990-2002)

Fox Sports Australia

Fox Telecolombia

Fox Television Stations

Fox Television Studios

Imedi TV

Latvijas Neatkarīgā Televīzija

MyNetworkTV

STAR TV

TV5 Rīga

Sky 1

sky 1 HD

sky 2

sky 3

sky sports and sky sports HD

sky movies and sky movies HD

[edit] Cable Assets

Big Ten Network (49%)

Fox Business Network

Fox College Sports

Fox Movie Channel

Fox News Channel

Fox Soccer Channel

Fox Sports Enterprises

Fox Sports en Español

Fox Sports Net

FUEL TV

FX Networks

Fox Reality

National Geographic Channel (50%)

National Geographic Channel UK (50%)

Speed Channel

SportSouth

LAPTV (Latin America — co-owned with Paramount Pictures/Viacom, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer/MGM Holdings and Universal Studios/NBC Universal)

Telecine (Brazil — co-owned with Globosat Canais, Paramount Pictures, MGM, Universal Studios and DreamWorks);

[edit] Direct broadcast satellite Assets

BSkyB [united Kingdom] (39.1%)

Sky Deutschland (39.96%)

SKY Italia

SKY Network Television [New Zealand] (43.65%)

Foxtel [Australia] (25%)

Star TV [india & Greater China] (100%)

Tata Sky [india] (20%)

[edit] Internet

Fox Interactive Media

AmericanIdol.com

AskMen.com

Fox.com

Foxsports.com

GameSpy

Hulu.com

kSolo

IGN

Drownedinsound.com

MySpace

MyNetworktv.com

NewRoo.com

Strategicdatacorp.com

Scout.com

SpringWidgets

WhatIfSports

Beliefnet

News Digital Media

Slingshot Labs

Authonomy via HarperCollins

[edit] Magazines and Inserts

InsideOut

donna hay

News America Marketing

SmartSource

[edit] Newspapers and Information Services

[edit] United Kingdom

News International

The Sun

News of the World

The Times

Sunday Times

thelondonpaper (a free newspaper which closed in September 2009)

[edit] Australasia

News Limited

The Daily Telegraph (Sydney)

The Sunday Telegraph (Sydney)

The Australian (national)

The Weekend Australian (national)

The Advertiser (Adelaide)

Sunday Mail (Adelaide)

The Sunday Times (Perth)

Herald Sun (Melbourne)

Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne)

mX (Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane)

The Courier-Mail (Brisbane)

The Cairns Post (Cairns, Queensland)

Geelong Advertiser

Gold Coast Bulletin

The Mercury and Sunday Tasmanian (Hobart)

Northern Territory News (Darwin)

The Sunday Territorian (Darwin)

Australian Associated Press (45%)

Papua New Guinea

Papua New Guinea Post-Courier

Fiji

The Fiji Times

[edit] United States

New York Post

Community Newspaper Group

The Brooklyn Paper

Courier-Life Publications

TimesLedger Newspapers

Bronx Times Reporter Inc.

[edit] International

Dow Jones & Company

Consumer Media Group

The Wall Street Journal - the leading US financial newspaper.

Wall Street Journal Europe

Wall Street Journal Asia

Barron's - weekly financial markets magazine.

Marketwatch - Financial news and information website.

Far Eastern Economic Review

Financial News

Enterprise Media Group

Dow Jones Newswires - global, real-time news and information provider.

Factiva - provides business news and information together with content delivery tools and services.

Dow Jones Indexes - stock market indexes and indicators, including the Dow Jones Industrial Average.

Dow Jones Financial Information Services — produces databases, electronic media, newsletters, conferences, directories, and other information services on specialised markets and industry sectors.

Betten Financial News — leading Dutch language financial and economic news service.

Local Media Group'

Dow Jones Local Media Group (formerly Ottaway Community Newspapers) - 8 daily and 15 weekly regional newspapers.

Strategic Alliances

STOXX (33%) - joint venture with Deutsche Boerse and SWG Group for the development and distribution of Dow Jones STOXX indices.

Vedomosti (33%) - Russia's leading financial newspaper (joint venture with Financial Times and Independent Media).

SmartMoney (50%)

FiLife.com (50%)

[edit] Books

HarperCollins

HarperCollins India (40%) joint venture with India Today Group

Zondervan Publishing

Youth Specialties — organisation helping youth workers worldwide through training seminars and conventions, resources and the internet.

Inspirio — religious gift production.

[edit] Miscellaneous

National Rugby League (NRL) (50%)

Ansett Australia, Until 2000 (50%)

Curb Records

Jamba! - Mobile Entertainment/Mobile Handsets Personalisation/Games.

News Outdoor Group - Largest outdoor advertising company in Eastern Europe with over 70,000 ads including billboards and bus shelters, operating in Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Hungary, India, Israel, Poland, Romania, Russia (96 cities), Turkey & Ukraine.

Maximedia Israel (67%)

Mosgorreklama (50%) - Russia sign and marketing material manufacturer

Kamera Acikhava Reklamclik (?) - leading outdoor advertising company in Turkey

NDS Group (49%) - DRM and conditional access company.

[Stramash]

Modern definitions of piracy include the following acts:

* Boarding

* Extortion

* Hostage taking

* Kidnapping of people for ransom

* Murder

* Robbery

* Sabotage resulting in the ship subsequently sinking

* Seizure of items or the ship

* Shipwrecking done intentionally to a ship

Now Israel tick at least 2 of those boxes (boarding and seizure of items and/or ship - we will leave murder out just now).

Now you can get into an argument on the semantics between 'stealing' and confiscation' but, at the end of the day, not all the goods on the ships will reach Gaza.

Putting aside all arguments on the legality of the blockade etc, the facts is that the Israelis boarded a ship in a hostile manner in International Waters.

This by modern definitions IS an act of piracy!!

Incidentally, I did notice that one of the IDF commanders on TV was wearing an eye patch, so this proves the 'pirate theory' once and for all.

[English_Bob]

Tch - I missed the 'eyepatch evidence'.

Is there any 'parrot' or 'hook hand' evidence to really close the case?

Did the Israelis steal any pieces of eight?

[Stramash]

Tch - I missed the 'eyepatch evidence'.

Is there any 'parrot' or 'hook hand' evidence to really close the case?

Did the Israelis steal any pieces of eight?

no but several barrels of rum were spotted that evening in Tel Aviv...

[kaunitz]

Incidentally, I did notice that one of the IDF commanders on TV was wearing an eye patch, so this proves the 'pirate theory' once and for all.

Is Moshe Dayan back???

[DJTX]

The world, including the muslim community is extremely upset about Israel. So when are we going to hear the worldwide uproar and indignation about these?

Baghdad, Iraq (CNN) -- A suicide car bomb attack, targeting a police station in southwest Baghdad, killed four people and wounded 13 others on Sunday, police said.

The attack was directed at the Amel police station, authorities said.

Among the dead were two police officers, police said. Eight other officers were among those wounded in the blast.

Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Suspected insurgents placed a bomb in a cart and remotely detonated it while a police vehicle drove by in Afghanistan's Kandahar province Sunday morning.

The ensuing explosion killed two civilians and a police officer, the provincial governor's office said. Eleven others were wounded.

The bomb was placed in front of a mosque in the Panjwai district, the governor's office said.

Sardar Mohammad Zazai, the province's police chief, said insurgents are increasingly leaving bombs in crowded areas to exact a high civilian toll.

On Saturday, a bicycle bomb exploded in front of the Red Cross office in the southern Afghan province, killing a policeman and injuring 11 people, authorities said.

Militants placed the makeshift bomb on a bicycle and detonated it by remote control at noon, Zazai said.

[beej]

Israel will reject a proposed international commission to investigate its deadly raid on a Gaza aid flotilla, its ambassador to the US has said.

[Stramash]

The world, including the muslim community is extremely upset about Israel. So when are we going to hear the worldwide uproar and indignation about these?

Baghdad, Iraq (CNN) -- A suicide car bomb attack, targeting a police station in southwest Baghdad, killed four people and wounded 13 others on Sunday, police said.

The attack was directed at the Amel police station, authorities said.

Among the dead were two police officers, police said. Eight other officers were among those wounded in the blast.

Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Suspected insurgents placed a bomb in a cart and remotely detonated it while a police vehicle drove by in Afghanistan's Kandahar province Sunday morning.

The ensuing explosion killed two civilians and a police officer, the provincial governor's office said. Eleven others were wounded.

The bomb was placed in front of a mosque in the Panjwai district, the governor's office said.

Sardar Mohammad Zazai, the province's police chief, said insurgents are increasingly leaving bombs in crowded areas to exact a high civilian toll.

On Saturday, a bicycle bomb exploded in front of the Red Cross office in the southern Afghan province, killing a policeman and injuring 11 people, authorities said.

Militants placed the makeshift bomb on a bicycle and detonated it by remote control at noon, Zazai said.

Mate, start a thread about indignation at Muzzie terrorist attacks and there will be plenty posts, but this particular thread is about the illegal boarding and the illegal blockade. And if you read through even the most vehement anti Israel posts, you will not see one bit of support for Hamas, quite the opposite (i do believe I called them monkeyfuckers).

There is no doubt that Hamas are evil bastards controlled from Syria and Iran, but that does not alter the inhumane conditions caused by the blockade.

[kaunitz]

The world, including the muslim community is extremely upset about Israel. So when are we going to hear the worldwide uproar and indignation about these?

Baghdad, Iraq (CNN) -- A suicide car bomb attack, targeting a police station in southwest Baghdad, killed four people and wounded 13 others on Sunday, police said.

The attack was directed at the Amel police station, authorities said.

Among the dead were two police officers, police said. Eight other officers were among those wounded in the blast.

Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Suspected insurgents placed a bomb in a cart and remotely detonated it while a police vehicle drove by in Afghanistan's Kandahar province Sunday morning.

The ensuing explosion killed two civilians and a police officer, the provincial governor's office said. Eleven others were wounded.

The bomb was placed in front of a mosque in the Panjwai district, the governor's office said.

Sardar Mohammad Zazai, the province's police chief, said insurgents are increasingly leaving bombs in crowded areas to exact a high civilian toll.

On Saturday, a bicycle bomb exploded in front of the Red Cross office in the southern Afghan province, killing a policeman and injuring 11 people, authorities said.

Militants placed the makeshift bomb on a bicycle and detonated it by remote control at noon, Zazai said.

Mate, start a thread about indignation at Muzzie terrorist attacks and there will be plenty posts, but this particular thread is about the illegal boarding and the illegal blockade. And if you read through even the most vehement anti Israel posts, you will not see one bit of support for Hamas, quite the opposite (i do believe I called them monkeyfuckers).

There is no doubt that Hamas are evil bastards controlled from Syria and Iran, but that does not alter the inhumane conditions caused by the blockade.

1+!

[Geee]

both sides are wrong, yes it happens

[DJTX]

The world, including the muslim community is extremely upset about Israel. So when are we going to hear the worldwide uproar and indignation about these?

Baghdad, Iraq (CNN) -- A suicide car bomb attack, targeting a police station in southwest Baghdad, killed four people and wounded 13 others on Sunday, police said.

The attack was directed at the Amel police station, authorities said.

Among the dead were two police officers, police said. Eight other officers were among those wounded in the blast.

Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Suspected insurgents placed a bomb in a cart and remotely detonated it while a police vehicle drove by in Afghanistan's Kandahar province Sunday morning.

The ensuing explosion killed two civilians and a police officer, the provincial governor's office said. Eleven others were wounded.

The bomb was placed in front of a mosque in the Panjwai district, the governor's office said.

Sardar Mohammad Zazai, the province's police chief, said insurgents are increasingly leaving bombs in crowded areas to exact a high civilian toll.

On Saturday, a bicycle bomb exploded in front of the Red Cross office in the southern Afghan province, killing a policeman and injuring 11 people, authorities said.

Militants placed the makeshift bomb on a bicycle and detonated it by remote control at noon, Zazai said.

Mate, start a thread about indignation at Muzzie terrorist attacks and there will be plenty posts, but this particular thread is about the illegal boarding and the illegal blockade. And if you read through even the most vehement anti Israel posts, you will not see one bit of support for Hamas, quite the opposite (i do believe I called them monkeyfuckers).

There is no doubt that Hamas are evil bastards controlled from Syria and Iran, but that does not alter the inhumane conditions caused by the blockade.

I did not say at all the Israel was justified in what they did. I disagree completely with their actions (in Gaza) and they should be held to accont. But my point here is that we never hear the same level of outcry from most of the world, the muslim community especially, about terrorist attacks.

OK, let's narrow it down. When is the last time anyone cried out when a suicide bomber killed people in Israel? When is the last time anyone cried out when rockets were fired into Israel?

Sorry mate, the two problems are really one big problem and they are connected. BTW I doubt there are any forums on TF that talk about Hamas rockets, etc. to the extent this one is being discussed Everything is too one sided...

[beej]

When is the last time anyone cried out when a suicide bomber killed people in Israel? When is the last time anyone cried out when rockets were fired into Israel?

Maybe if the Arabs came over to the US en masse and pushed you all into the least fertile areas of your state, because the UN/UK said they could, then they used their military might to evict you from your family homes and land, built a wall around you so no one could get out and nothing could get in unless they permitted it, then they slowly took more and more of your land bulldozing your homes, and cutting your water/power/gas if you resisted for days on end crushing what little economy you have, starving your people, and preventing them from getting medical supplies.

Would you fight back?

Oh and those TERRIBLE rockets Hammas launch at Israel.... do you know how many people they have killed in the past 10 years... less than the number of people that were murdered by Israeli soldiers last week.