Are Thai prostitutes blameless?

[The Punisher]

A couple of inflamatory posts today on prostitution in Thailand. It's a topic thats been discussed before, but rarely, in my opinion, with much depth of reason.

It appears to me that peoples' views are heavily influenced by their own experience and involvement with the sex trade.

Those who are involved with (ex)prositutes, particularly in long term relationships, seem more likely to defend their 'choice' of profession.

Those with bad experiences, no experience, or who think of themselves as somewhat pious, have little or no compassion at all.

Of course there are plenty of others in the middle, I consider myself to be one of them. At the end of the day, I just wouldn't take the gamble. As a 32 year old man I want a girl I can build a life with, make a future with. It is highly unlikely that I would find a compatible career orientated prositute that wasn't going to hit me up for buffalo maintainence.... nevermind all the other personal qualities I desire in a life partner.

Perhaps things would be different if I was 50+ and had done all the hard work already. Perhaps divorced already I might be just looking for someone to cook, clean, and provide a degree of companionship (in spite of the language and cultural barriers). The fact that she is 20 years my junior and looks better than all my mates wives back home (and better than I could ever hope to do there also) is an added bonus too. I don't mind that I have to support her and her family each month, because she shows me she loves me. That my mates say it is just for money doesn't matter. True bliss, or true ignorance, it doesn't matter.

Maybe you can relate to one off these 2 scenarios, maybe yours is something different, but answer me this....

Would you get involved with a prostitute? Are they bad people because of what they do? Does Thailand as a whole have to take responsibility for making viable alternatives available for girls who for whatever the reason are selling sex to earn a living?

[Loburt]

This would have been a better post without your "scenarios." You might be surprised how many guys in your age range send money to bar girls every month. Stereotypes of any type don't help.

[I_am_George]

This would have been a better post without your "scenarios." You might be surprised how many guys in your age range send money to bar girls every month. Stereotypes of any type don't help.

You also might be surprised at how many guys in your range also send money to non-bar girls, so what is the difference?

Im sure the money is probably for the same purpose at the end of the day...........

[Loburt]

We're not talking about non bar girls or what the money is used for. The point was about the stereotypes, and I don't think it was too difficult to understand.

[The Punisher]

This would have been a better post without your "scenarios." You might be surprised how many guys in your age range send money to bar girls every month. Stereotypes of any type don't help.

I disagree Loburt, and I never said only old men do this and young men do that. The 1st scenario is how I actually feel now. The 2nd one is how I might feel if I were in a different situation. Whether I am a living stereotype or not is beside the point.

[I_am_George]

We're not talking about non bar girls or what the money is used for. The point was about the stereotypes, and I don't think it was too difficult to understand.

Ah there is nothing difficult about your point whatsoever. I was only trying to point out that we could maybe generalise this into any girls and money, but perhaps that was a bit difficult to understand.

I didnt realise other peoples points werent allowed in forums, silly me :roll:

carry on

[tony_mai_dee]

i don't think thePunisher was making any unreasonable stereotypes...

he merely said that for him, a bg would not be his first (or even last) choice of long term partner, and for very good reason...whereas he could imagine that if he was older and 'going for it a second time around' he may think differently

don't see anything wrong with that

and actually, his statement is pretty much in line with what most older guys i know doing the bg partner thing say themselves - 'first time around I was looking for an equal and a friend....now my requirements are different'

[Loburt]

Well, Giles, it does play to a stereotype. And there are many many exceptions to that stereotype. You may not be the typical 32 year old who lives or travels to Thailand.

My feeling is that if you want to start a discussion to try and get to some truth about the problem of prostitution in Thailand, it's best not to start with a stereotype about prostitutes or their clients.

Then again, this is TF and so it shouldn't be expected that we'll get to any truth here.

[I_am_George]

Would you get involved with a prostitute? Are they bad people because of what they do? Does Thailand as a whole have to take responsibility for making viable alternatives available for girls who for whatever the reason are selling sex to earn a living?

To answer the questions......

Would I get involved with a prostitute?

No, Im not against having a bar girl as a friend, but no more than that.

Are they bad people because of what they do?

Not in my opinion, as long as they are not ripping people off etc.

Does Thailand as a whole have to take responsibility for making viable alternatives available for girls who for whatever the reason are selling sex to earn a living?

Does Thailand actually want to take responsibility and offer alternatives? I believe the Bar Girl scene forms a large part of the Thailand Tourist industry, would it be in the countries best interests to take this part of the industry away and risk losing lots of bucks from sex tourists who will go elsewhere? Personally I do think they should take more interest and offer alternatives to girls who would be prepared to accept them, and at least control the sex industry if they cannot make it disappear.

[The Punisher]

Well, Giles, it does play to a stereotype. And there are many many exceptions to that stereotype. You may not be the typical 32 year old who lives or travels to Thailand.

My feeling is that if you want to start a discussion to try and get to some truth about the problem of prostitution in Thailand, it's best not to start with a stereotype about prostitutes or their clients.

Then again, this is TF and so it shouldn't be expected that we'll get to any truth here.

You still don't get it. I was talking about myself, 1 person, and 1 actual and 1 future possible situation. How does this play to sterotypes?

[CuTieGirL]

I think it's a matter of choice. It's true that working as a prostitute probably be an easy money as a career choice. But it's not like there's no other jobs out there to choose from. It's up to you whether u rather work hard and earn every thing u got. Or work illegally, no pride but loads of cash to spend.

I've met one beautiful girl in Samui Island. She works in a salon which is next to a ***** house. And she's way better looking than those in the place next door. Out of the curiousity, I asked her why she wouldn't work there when she would earn more money than she does here. She said, She doesn't want to work there...working for a salon has less money but she has her pride. And she's happy with it. I bet life is hard for many people. But there's always other way out. (Similarly to those who committed suicide...why would they do it?)

Funny thing for me of How people feel OK about this. Especially Foreigners and Farangs. No offense, but It WOULDN't be ok for them in their country to date a prostitute in their country. (Imagine if you are from US, would you date a US prostitute? Why it's not the right thing to do? And why dating a Thai prostitute is acceptable?) So what makes means of acceptable any different here?

Someone told me that it's acceptable because dating these women make them feel like they have a compassion for the poor. So why don't they have compassion for the poor for prostitute in their own country?

[sawadee2k]

i think they have a choice,ok there are poor families/situations but if you really dont want to do anything you dont do it!!no matter what money someone gives you!!

its like a drug dealer an easy way out for the right type of person,risk a bit of stress and hard times but you have good money with the right custmoers and you can drink/party everynight!!

any of the girls can get a real job like everyone else in thailand and live ok!!

[CuTieGirL]

Maybe there should be another forum on this.

Are men feel proud when they had a prostitute or pay to have sex with someone?

I mean there's no chemistry there. She's a total stranger. Does it really feel good doing it? Or it's just another way out of desperation?

[The Punisher]

Maybe there should be another forum on this.

Are men feel proud when they had a prostitute or pay to have sex with someone?

I mean there's no chemistry there. She's a total stranger. Does it really feel good doing it? Or it's just another way out of desperation?

Don't forget, men have 2 heads and 2 brains

[Neo]

Maybe there should be another forum on this.

Are men feel proud when they had a prostitute or pay to have sex with someone?

I mean there's no chemistry there. She's a total stranger. Does it really feel good doing it? Or it's just another way out of desperation?

For most men having sex with a stranger is exciting. And as for paying, I think it's far better if guys who just want sex go with a bar girl instead of lying to good girls to get a shag.

[The Punisher]

That might be the case for more and more prostitutes here in Thailand that they have simply made that choice for that way of living, but be sure that there is still girls getting forced into this, human tafficking is a big problem in Thailand, go to a Thai brothel and be sure that the Burmese - Cambodian - Laotian girls there are there on their own free will.

And the prostitution you see is only the top of the iceberg

Of course this is an all to real situation. But how many farang living or on holiday here in Thailand actually come to face-to-face with this type of thing? It appears that your typical bar girl catering to farang comes, for one reason or another, from a farm somewhere up in Isaan.

[kfg_johnny]

i think they have a choice,ok there are poor families/situations but if you really dont want to do anything you dont do it!!no matter what money someone gives you!!

its like a drug dealer an easy way out for the right type of person,risk a bit of stress and hard times but you have good money with the right custmoers and you can drink/party everynight!!

any of the girls can get a real job like everyone else in thailand and live ok!!

Walk a mile in their shoes... do what they do for 1 night...and then say the same thing afterwards please.

I hate people who take a pompus western approach to a global issue of poverty and prostiution.

You cannot choose who your family is, you cannot choose where you were born, and that affects other choices later in life.

If you are from a poor family up country in Thailand, Vietnam or any other contry, you cannot choose to get a good education to get a good job. The options are simply not there.

If you have the choice, which most westerners do... thats fine. Become judgemental.

But many Thais and not just those who you see at the go-go's and bar beers, don't have that choice. They can't have the choice to leave the environment they are in, simply because of economics...which then dictates other choices.

Pride is a hard pill to swallow when you are too hungry to think.

As for the whole art of Prostitution... Think about this for one moment....

Business men and others who do business or any form of commerce have to sell ourselves everyday to make money. I am just one of the few lucky ones that has the "choice" to do it with a computer, paper and a pen...That was because I had the opportunity and was lucky enough to be given a choice.

[Neo]

That might be the case for more and more prostitutes here in Thailand that they have simply made that choice for that way of living, but be sure that there is still girls getting forced into this, human tafficking is a big problem in Thailand, go to a Thai brothel and be sure that the Burmese - Cambodian - Laotian girls there are there on their own free will.

And the prostitution you see is only the top of the iceberg

Of course this is an all to real situation. But how many farang living or on holiday here in Thailand actually come to face-to-face with this type of thing? It appears that your typical bar girl catering to farang comes, for one reason or another, from a farm somewhere up in Isaan.

You might be surprised. A friend used to manage a gogo bar in Bangkok and he told me how the girls are treated in various bars. Some had a 'lock in' policy.. i.e. the girls are locked up after work until they start again the next day. In some bars if they try to run away something bad happens such as their parents farm being reappropriated to the bar owner. As a punter it's hard to tell which bars treat the girls well and which bars abuse them.

[kfg_johnny]

Don't forget, men have 2 heads and 2 brains

No.. men have 2 heads and only 1 brain....

and most of the time we use the head WITHOUT the brain to think..

:shock:

[The Punisher]

Walk a mile in their shoes... do what they do for 1 night...and then say the same thing afterwards please.

I hate people who take a pompus western approach to a global issue of poverty and prostiution.

You cannot choose who your family is, you cannot choose where you were born, and that affects other choices later in life.

If you are from a poor family up country in Thailand, Vietnam or any other contry, you cannot choose to get a good education to get a good job. The options are simply not there.

If you have the choice, which most westerners do... thats fine. Become judgemental.

But many Thais and not just those who you see at the go-go's and bar beers, don't have that choice. They can't have the choice to leave the environment they are in, simply because of economics...which then dictates other choices.

Pride is a hard pill to swallow when you are too hungry to think.

As for the whole art of Prostitution... Think about this for one moment....

Business men and others who do business or any form of commerce have to sell ourselves everyday to make money. I am just one of the few lucky ones that has the "choice" to do it with a computer, paper and a pen...That was because I had the opportunity and was lucky enough to be given a choice.

A thoughtful and straight to the point post, I agree with much of what you say. Two pointsa I would like to make though.

1) I know 2 girls from heartbreaking family breakgrounds who have never turned a trick in their lives. If they had, I bet many would have sais 'they never had a choice'.

2) There are more non-bargirls from poor upcountry families than there are bargirls.

[beej]

WTF, this is a stupid forum topic.

A prostitute is a prostitute where ever shes from.

With out the male urge to **** there would be no prostitutes. Would it not be better to post a topic, are men blameless for ******* prostitutes?

[asfalt]

In my eyes, we are all prostitutes...and the state is the pimp!!

[moo_noy]

Funny thing for me of How people feel OK about this. Especially Foreigners and Farangs. No offense, but It WOULDN't be ok for them in their country to date a prostitute in their country. (Imagine if you are from US, would you date a US prostitute? Why it's not the right thing to do? And why dating a Thai prostitute is acceptable?) So what makes means of acceptable any different here?

Someone told me that it's acceptable because dating these women make them feel like they have a compassion for the poor. So why don't they have compassion for the poor for prostitute in their own country?

beat me to it,why not date a hooker in your home county they do the same thing

[The Punisher]

WTF, this is a stupid forum topic.

A prostitute is a prostitute where ever shes from.

With out the male urge to f*ck there would be no prostitutes. Would it not be better to post a topic, are men blameless for f*cking prostitutes?

You almost made a decent post, but you didn't think it through and had to have a potty mouth.

Your point is valid re without demand there would be no supply. Therefore one must ask what alternatives would the Thai girls who are now prostitutes have. Is prostitution a form of social crutch that means the country doesn't need to address poverty as a cause of prostitution.

[Neo]

Funny thing for me of How people feel OK about this. Especially Foreigners and Farangs. No offense, but It WOULDN't be ok for them in their country to date a prostitute in their country. (Imagine if you are from US, would you date a US prostitute? Why it's not the right thing to do? And why dating a Thai prostitute is acceptable?) So what makes means of acceptable any different here?

I don't think it is acceptable. A guaranteed way to ruin work or business relationships (and possibly even lose a job) would be to turn up at a work party in Thailand with a bargirl. It seems that farangs in Thailand are either unaware of how unnacceptable their behaviour is or don't care because they are far from home. I think that some farangs become so ensconsed in the bargirl scene that they mistake it for Thai culture and behave as if they are in a girlie bar everywhere they go. I find it embarrassing to be farang when some farang walks into the restaurant with his semi naked bargirl and slaps her on the ass in front of the other diners.