The ultimate restoring democracy in Thailand thread...

[Hobbes]

...by a simple show of hands...well ok, pressing a button (but we won't have any hanging 'chads' here). :wink:

Since the voting is anonymous you can show your true colours so to speak without any fear of ridicule. Honestly.

I know that us Johnny Foreigners can't usually vote in your country but in the true spirit of multiculturalism and globalisation (hell, if we can have global wars and global financial crisis then why the heck can't we vote in each others elections I say).

Just for trying to gauge the support levels.

Fingers ready....steady....punch!

8)

[PeeMarc]

there never has been a democracy in Thailand, so what would you wish to "restore"? It would be quite impossible, given the "Thai Ways" of social structure, doing business and managing things etc, to ever have a democracy (in the Western definition of that term). Apart from quasi buddhism practiced here, Thailand seem quite devoid of any political ideology that most either understand or can rally behind. Besides money, power and ego, there doesnt seem much to which Thai people aspire. "im ok jack, keep your hands off my stack" is the mantra of anyone here with any influence. It is a country so riddled with hypocracy and "mai pen rai" at every level that even laws and basic social morals are rendered useless. Hopefully, one day, Thailand will grow up and discover its own version of "democracy" and one that works best for Thai people.

[sunsnow]

I wonder what kind of place this would be if King Narai would have turned into catholism in 17th century. That would have meant different path. Probably more multicultural country where instead of quasi buddhism non-values there could be morals that guide a bit more...just thinkin' alternative history theories...

[PeeMarc]

I wonder what kind of place this would be if King Narai would have turned into catholism in 17th century. That would have meant different path. Probably more multicultural country where instead of quasi buddhism non-values there could be morals that guide a bit more...just thinkin' alternative history theories...

regardless of what path any country takes, if it puts it faith in ANYTHING other than the power of the human mind to reason, think and make choices based on that, its people will forever be groping blindly, hoping endlessly and mindlessly worshipping idols and gods and symbols that they (not the human mind) are somehow responsible for this lot in life.

[Dr_Mike]

I wonder what kind of place this would be if King Narai would have turned into catholism in 17th century. That would have meant different path. Probably more multicultural country where instead of quasi buddhism non-values there could be morals that guide a bit more...just thinkin' alternative history theories...

regardless of what path any country takes, if it puts it faith in ANYTHING other than the power of the human mind to reason, think and make choices based on that, its people will forever be groping blindly, hoping endlessly and mindlessly worshipping idols and gods and symbols that they (not the human mind) are somehow responsible for this lot in life.

Marc,

You have become so "focused".

Your comments are making too much sense. :-)

Cheers my friend.

Mike

[PeeMarc]

I wonder what kind of place this would be if King Narai would have turned into catholism in 17th century. That would have meant different path. Probably more multicultural country where instead of quasi buddhism non-values there could be morals that guide a bit more...just thinkin' alternative history theories...

regardless of what path any country takes, if it puts it faith in ANYTHING other than the power of the human mind to reason, think and make choices based on that, its people will forever be groping blindly, hoping endlessly and mindlessly worshipping idols and gods and symbols that they (not the human mind) are somehow responsible for this lot in life.

Marc,

You have become so "focused".

Your comments are making too much sense. :-)

Cheers my friend.

Mike

The outcome of way too many mind-altering substances and abuse over a lifetime. (I'm sure I met 'God' once too...I forget where...)

[Dr_Mike]

Hopefully you will get over it soon.. Just kidding.

I think I met god once too, she was working in a Go Go bar on walking street.

"Knockers."

[luckyphil247]

If I was Thai, I'd be PAD all the way !!!

[sunsnow]

Go ahead luckyphil, PAD is not political party that bans not Thais of joining them or any organized group of any sorts with a charter outlining their requirements for membership. No one stops you from joining them at Government house, don muang or Suvanabum.

[friendlyCat]

I am told that quite a few protesters are paid and that they are not allowed to leave the airport even if they wish to do so.

[luckyphil247]

Go ahead luckyphil, PAD is not political party that bans not Thais of joining them or any organized group of any sorts with a charter outlining their requirements for membership. No one stops you from joining them at Government house, don muang or Suvanabum.

I'd probably do their cause more harm, as Police would surely clear all the PAD protestors out of the airport IF they saw a Farang amongst them

As I said before, IF I was Thai .....

[sunsnow]

And again I say, you being Thai or not is in no way a block for you to go out there and show your support for PAD movement. I do not see how you being a Thai national or not is relevant to this issue. And there are foreigners there for sure, I could bet it.

[luckyphil247]

And again I say, you being Thai or not is in no way a block for you to go out there and show your support for PAD movement. I do not see how you being a Thai national or not is relevant to this issue. And there are foreigners there for sure, I could bet it.

Just in case your mouse is damaged and you can't scroll up the page,

I'd probably do their cause more harm, as Police would surely clear all the PAD protestors out of the airport IF they saw a Farang amongst them

OR maybe a serious answer could be ...... as I'm not Thai, I don't feel that it's my place to get involved in any political protest as it's not my country of residence. Even assuming that I was a Farang working in Thailand, ( which I am not ) I personally wouldn't feel comfortable protesting unless I was a permanent resident

[Bruce551]

there never has been a democracy in Thailand, so what would you wish to "restore"? It would be quite impossible, given the "Thai Ways" of social structure, doing business and managing things etc, to ever have a democracy (in the Western definition of that term). Apart from quasi buddhism practiced here, Thailand seem quite devoid of any political ideology that most either understand or can rally behind. Besides money, power and ego, there doesnt seem much to which Thai people aspire. "im ok jack, keep your hands off my stack" is the mantra of anyone here with any influence. It is a country so riddled with hypocracy and "mai pen rai" at every level that even laws and basic social morals are rendered useless. Hopefully, one day, Thailand will grow up and discover its own version of "democracy" and one that works best for Thai people.

Good one, hits the nail right on head. The seizing of the Airports is a relatively small temporary problem compared to state of democracy in Thailand.

[Hobbes]

Marc, I don't disagree with you but then one could equally ask how democratic any of our home countries are especially in light of that moronic 'war on terror'.

I just don't agree with all the doom-and-gloom merchants found on other threads. Sure the current situation will cause damage to the country and people of Thailand. Damage that may even last for a while. And I may myself may be inconvenienced should they still be occupying the airport in 2 weeks time. But I have seen some real f***ed-up countries in the past and at least here they don't shoot or hack each other to pieces, fight pitched battles in the streets or have people disappear over night never to be seen again. The odd grenade attack and shooting shows that it could perhaps escalate into an armed conflict and that indeed would be a disaster (although I would suspect the army to step in before that happens). Any damage done so far is easy enough to fix and as for the money it costs the country and the people every day...well, it sure will hurt but it is only money.

Would be nice to hear from some Thai members too. I know us 'whitey's' are used to spout our opinions anytime and anywhere... :wink:

[DJTX]

A recent ABAC poll: A survey conducted by Abac Poll Research Center revealed that many Thai people were ashamed of the political turmoil and they preferred to stay politically neutral.

According to the poll, 76.5 per cent felt very embarrassed about the local political turbulence and the negative views of foreigners toward Thailand.

65.1 per cent said they would have less pride in the country, if the situation turns violent and intensifies. 92.3 per cent believed political problems can be solved by the justice system. 58.4 per cent said they will not take sides in politics.

[Hobbes]

Polls are a fickle thing even when used in developed countries. With this one it would be really interesting to see how many people they have asked and what the mix of these people was, like urban/rural, regions, social status and so on.

But I would suspect that in the case of local Bangkokians it's probably true that the majority would be past caring for the antics of either side of the political divide at this point.

[sunsnow]

With this one it would be really interesting to see how many people they have asked and what the mix of these people was, like urban/rural, regions, social status and so on.

Haha asking that from APAC polls is like asking CIA to show how many people they have assasinated this year. Never gonna happen. LOL

[zdownlow]

Things are very f-ed up at the moment, but looking at the bigger picture I dont see the need for such a dire view of Thailand that some on this site hold. We are talking about a country with really only 14 years (1992 to 2008 - 2 coup years) of non-military, multi-party, democratic rule (albeit with Thai characteristics). And of that 14 years, only since 1997 has there been a real modern constitution (and it took a few years to develop the institutions called for in that one).

What models of governance and histories are we to compare Thailand with? Cambodia? Vietnam? Laos? Indonesia? China? Some might throw out Singapore or Malaysia as models but I'm not sure how decades of one party rule really qualify as multi-party democracies.

And, in contrast to those countries, Thailand has for decades been a refuge for millions of citizens from neighboring countries. It has also let foreigners of all stripes game the visa system for years to an extent not seen elsewhere in the world.

So, pardon me if I am comparatively less concerned. But I do hope that I have not offended anyone by my optimism....

[zeusbheld]

Things are very f-ed up at the moment, but looking at the bigger picture I dont see the need for such a dire view of Thailand that some on this site hold. We are talking about a country with really only 14 years (1992 to 2008 - 2 coup years) of non-military, multi-party, democratic rule (albeit with Thai characteristics). And of that 14 years, only since 1997 has there been a real modern constitution (and it took a few years to develop the institutions called for in that one).

What models of governance and histories are we to compare Thailand with? Cambodia? Vietnam? Laos? Indonesia? China? Some might throw out Singapore or Malaysia as models but I'm not sure how decades of one party rule really qualify as multi-party democracies.

And, in contrast to those countries, Thailand has for decades been a refuge for millions of citizens from neighboring countries. It has also let foreigners of all stripes game the visa system for years to an extent not seen elsewhere in the world.

So, pardon me if I am comparatively less concerned. But I do hope that I have not offended anyone by my optimism....

pardon me for being comparatively more concerned, but current events suggest there may be something many people have been dreading beneath the surface of all this.

i doubt any reconciliation between yellow clappers and red clappers is going to happen. the problem is structural. even if this crisis is resolved neatly and peacefully with a cute little bow on top it ain't gonna be the last crisis.

the losing side (almost certainly PPP) isn't gonna ride off quietly into the sunset.

this is a country that is deeply divided, and rule of law means nothing here. it ain't about democracy, it's about stability, and there's a pretty good chance that stability over for the foreseeable future. that'll not be good news for the economy. it's not all bad news, though--it'll mean abundant bargains for sex tourists in the not too distant future.

[sunsnow]

Sex tourist - The kind of tourist TAT has always wanted"

Bringing the Sex Tourists In Proudly Since 2008

[zdownlow]

Things are very f-ed up at the moment, but looking at the bigger picture I dont see the need for such a dire view of Thailand that some on this site hold....

pardon me for being comparatively more concerned, but current events suggest there may be something many people have been dreading beneath the surface of all this.

i doubt any reconciliation between yellow clappers and red clappers is going to happen. the problem is structural. even if this crisis is resolved neatly and peacefully with a cute little bow on top it ain't gonna be the last crisis.

the losing side (almost certainly PPP) isn't gonna ride off quietly into the sunset.

this is a country that is deeply divided, and rule of law means nothing here. it ain't about democracy, it's about stability, and there's a pretty good chance that stability over for the foreseeable future. that'll not be good news for the economy. it's not all bad news, though--it'll mean abundant bargains for sex tourists in the not too distant future.

Perhaps they can deploy the Utapao crowd pacification measures - dancing ladyboys and free thai massages...

No doubt there could be some clashes here and there and unstability in the near term. A lot of it depends on the leadership of both sides and how well they control/moderate their groups (the PAD abandonment of Government House is a comforting sign). I don't really see physical threats to visitors or most Thais. The psychological effects of continued strife could be a greater weight on longer-term consumer sentiment. But I think that 3-4 months past the next election things should settle down considerably. Of course, my lessened concern is related to the fact I'm 400+ km away from BKK and anticipate few, if any, impacts to myself or my circle of Thai/Burmese/farang friends and associates.

[zeusbheld]

Things are very f-ed up at the moment, but looking at the bigger picture I dont see the need for such a dire view of Thailand that some on this site hold....

pardon me for being comparatively more concerned, but current events suggest there may be something many people have been dreading beneath the surface of all this.

i doubt any reconciliation between yellow clappers and red clappers is going to happen. the problem is structural. even if this crisis is resolved neatly and peacefully with a cute little bow on top it ain't gonna be the last crisis.

the losing side (almost certainly PPP) isn't gonna ride off quietly into the sunset.

this is a country that is deeply divided, and rule of law means nothing here. it ain't about democracy, it's about stability, and there's a pretty good chance that stability over for the foreseeable future. that'll not be good news for the economy. it's not all bad news, though--it'll mean abundant bargains for sex tourists in the not too distant future.

Perhaps they can deploy the Utapao crowd pacification measures - dancing ladyboys and free thai massages...

No doubt there could be some clashes here and there and unstability in the near term. A lot of it depends on the leadership of both sides and how well they control/moderate their groups (the PAD abandonment of Government House is a comforting sign). I don't really see physical threats to visitors or most Thais. The psychological effects of continued strife could be a greater weight on longer-term consumer sentiment. But I think that 3-4 months past the next election things should settle down considerably. Of course, my lessened concern is related to the fact I'm 400+ km away from BKK and anticipate few, if any, impacts to myself or my circle of Thai/Burmese/farang friends and associates.

i tend to think that each round of elections will be a rinse and repeat, and maybe escalate a bit.

there's no palpable physical threat to tourists but it will torpedo tourism for sure. that's a big ding on the economy.

we don't see this as getting better long-term, and are making plans to leave in the next few months.

[LakeGeneve]

Things are very f-ed up at the moment, but looking at the bigger picture I dont see the need for such a dire view of Thailand that some on this site hold....

pardon me for being comparatively more concerned, but current events suggest there may be something many people have been dreading beneath the surface of all this.

i doubt any reconciliation between yellow clappers and red clappers is going to happen. the problem is structural. even if this crisis is resolved neatly and peacefully with a cute little bow on top it ain't gonna be the last crisis.

the losing side (almost certainly PPP) isn't gonna ride off quietly into the sunset.

this is a country that is deeply divided, and rule of law means nothing here. it ain't about democracy, it's about stability, and there's a pretty good chance that stability over for the foreseeable future. that'll not be good news for the economy. it's not all bad news, though--it'll mean abundant bargains for sex tourists in the not too distant future.

Perhaps they can deploy the Utapao crowd pacification measures - dancing ladyboys and free thai massages...

No doubt there could be some clashes here and there and unstability in the near term. A lot of it depends on the leadership of both sides and how well they control/moderate their groups (the PAD abandonment of Government House is a comforting sign). I don't really see physical threats to visitors or most Thais. The psychological effects of continued strife could be a greater weight on longer-term consumer sentiment. But I think that 3-4 months past the next election things should settle down considerably. Of course, my lessened concern is related to the fact I'm 400+ km away from BKK and anticipate few, if any, impacts to myself or my circle of Thai/Burmese/farang friends and associates.

I was in Mae Sot and Tak 2 weeks ago, some of those numerous sweat shops in Tak full of Burmese appear to have closed down. One of the issues I was contemplating is how those who are the most exploited and marginalised in thailand will fare in the dual context of once the downturn really hits and the political instability cranks up in the coming years?

[English_Bob]

:?: Quote? What quote :?: