NYCTreeMan Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 I hope that one good thing comes out of this tragedy; in that there is a huge clampdown on safety standards in Thai clubs. A poster earlier said he didn't mind if 50% of clubs had to close, even if temporarily, and I support that completely.It is unfortunate that it does take tragedies, of any sort, to stimulate debate on the standards of safety or precautionary measures in the particular area where the tragedy has occurred, but hopefully we will see more stringent regulatory measures in place for all clubs and entertainment venues. I think that Iain_D's comment is the reason why nothing will get done. If 50% of the clubs had to close 'cause of safety standards, then nothing will ever happen. There is no way Thailand or any country for that matter has the ability to control the closing of about 50% of clubs. Think about how many people would be out of work if that happened. The govt would just say something like 'In the interest of the economy, we will allow the clubs to stay open for the time being pending investigation.' Then the standards will just fall as they usually do, the press will concentrate on another thing, and everyone will go back to status quo. It's sad. Clubs are lucky. They get to keep the lights dim/off so you can't see what the place really looks like. In reality the floors are filthy, the electrical systems are antiquated, there are like 42 wires going into one socket, stuff like that. Guarantee something 'more important' will soon dominate the news, and things won't get done. Sorry for being pessimistic. I truly hope things are improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 I hope that one good thing comes out of this tragedy; in that there is a huge clampdown on safety standards in Thai clubs. A poster earlier said he didn't mind if 50% of clubs had to close, even if temporarily, and I support that completely.It is unfortunate that it does take tragedies, of any sort, to stimulate debate on the standards of safety or precautionary measures in the particular area where the tragedy has occurred, but hopefully we will see more stringent regulatory measures in place for all clubs and entertainment venues. I think that Iain_D's comment is the reason why nothing will get done. If 50% of the clubs had to close 'cause of safety standards, then nothing will ever happen. There is no way Thailand or any country for that matter has the ability to control the closing of about 50% of clubs. Think about how many people would be out of work if that happened. The govt would just say something like 'In the interest of the economy, we will allow the clubs to stay open for the time being pending investigation.' Then the standards will just fall as they usually do, the press will concentrate on another thing, and everyone will go back to status quo. It's sad. Clubs are lucky. They get to keep the lights dim/off so you can't see what the place really looks like. In reality the floors are filthy, the electrical systems are antiquated, there are like 42 wires going into one socket, stuff like that. Guarantee something 'more important' will soon dominate the news, and things won't get done. Sorry for being pessimistic. I truly hope things are improved. A very good point my friend. The logistics and economic repercussions would be huge, but perhaps balance by a reluctance by many tourists to attend clubs with little safety precautions? Maybe, (if the government DO tighten up the existing regulations and, as an earlier poster noted, create a regulatory body within fire service with sole responsibility for such things) it could be done in a staggered way? By that I mean that clubs would be 'scored' according to safety standards, taking into account exits, sprinkler/extinguishers, use of flammable materials etc. Some things, such as the use of hangings and decorations that have not been treated with flame retardant coatings (and this seems the primary reason the Santika fire spread so quickly) can be fixed in a matter of days, and could be achieved without any lengthy closure. Those with a dearth of exits and which would have to do structural work would probably have to close for longer. What should also be added to law is that, while the transition process to full implementation of new regulations takes place, all clubs have to display a notice at front door, showing their safety score and also detailing what is lacking or below standard, and possibly the timetable for improvements. Even small fast food shops in UK have to display the scores given to them by councils regarding cleanliness and hygiene levels, so a similar scheme could work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 I hope that one good thing comes out of this tragedy; in that there is a huge clampdown on safety standards in Thai clubs. A poster earlier said he didn't mind if 50% of clubs had to close, even if temporarily, and I support that completely.It is unfortunate that it does take tragedies, of any sort, to stimulate debate on the standards of safety or precautionary measures in the particular area where the tragedy has occurred, but hopefully we will see more stringent regulatory measures in place for all clubs and entertainment venues. More stringent regulations = bigger bribes. Sadly that's often the way things go around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoaBrotha Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 What a shame. When are people going to learn that you can NOT use pyrotechnics and fireworks INSIDE nightclubs. The same thing caused the deaths at a club in Rhode Island and in Chicago. Neither of these tragedies had to happen. May they all rest in peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 What a shame. When are people going to learn that you can NOT use pyrotechnics and fireworks INSIDE nightclubs. The same thing caused the deaths at a club in Rhode Island and in Chicago. Neither of these tragedies had to happen. May they all rest in peace. That should be obvious but they still do it. Sad people die because of something like that. :twisted: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanUsa Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 If people didn't make uninformed comments to begin with (about my footwear, and attire, which they never even witnessed first hand, then I would have never even responded, simple. To make a comparison between "black leather" and "crocs" is retarded, to say the least, and then "guessing" about the person's other attire, same. I made a comment about Santika management policy, which might reflect on how other aspects of the "club" are managed, nothing more, then I was attacked by people that never met me. Once again, I pay my respects to those that deserve them, and hope for the best for survivors of this tragic accident. You have to be pretty insensitive to persist in making posts about your footwear choices in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbroker Posted January 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 I'm an architectural engineer myself and I'm always aware entering places with lots of people in it. You know; at least check out where the emergency exits are and fire extinguishers. I've more than once said out loud in Thailand: "If something goes wrong in here I'm royally f**ked". This doesn't mean you can prevent things like this from happening, but I think at least some lives could have been saved with proper regulation and, more importantly, proper enforcement of rules already existing. this. Sure. "This" would be nice (at a minimum) plus a healthy dose of common sense. But "this" ain't happening there. You're on notice to check where alternative exits are when in an enclosed structure because you're likely on your own if/when the sh*t again hits the fan there. You're pretty much screwed unless lucky if you happen to be in MBK. You don't think ANYTHING'S going to change due to this occurrence? If people didn't make uninformed comments to begin with (about my footwear, and attire, which they never even witnessed first hand, then I would have never even responded, simple. To make a comparison between "black leather" and "crocs" is retarded, to say the least, and then "guessing" about the person's other attire, same. I made a comment about Santika management policy, which might reflect on how other aspects of the "club" are managed, nothing more, then I was attacked by people that never met me. Sheesh.......get over yourself. If people didn't make uninformed comments the comedy factor would be lost; your retarded posts included. Who cares what "people who never met me" have to say about you because after all, THEY'VE NEVER MET YOU. Happy New Year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primetime Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 In Boston, MA U.S.A. they required all bars/clubs to have full sprinkler systems a few years ago. The owners were all crying about how expensive it was going to be and how it was going to drive them out of business. They were given a year or two to comply. By the time the deadline came only a few weren't in compliance, but they were given a waiver for another few months. As far as I know no bars/clubs closed because of this law. Maybe Thailand could do something like this. I know you naysayers will pipe up, but it was successful here. Also no smoking in bars/clubs here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 If people didn't make uninformed comments to begin with (about my footwear, and attire, which they never even witnessed first hand, then I would have never even responded, simple. To make a comparison between "black leather" and "crocs" is retarded, to say the least, and then "guessing" about the person's other attire, same. I made a comment about Santika management policy, which might reflect on how other aspects of the "club" are managed, nothing more, then I was attacked by people that never met me.Once again, I pay my respects to those that deserve them, and hope for the best for survivors of this tragic accident. You have to be pretty insensitive to persist in making posts about your footwear choices in this thread. Can you please shut up about your shitty socks and ******* sandals! Be interesting if the names of the smaller partners come out, a policeman or in the gov will be in there for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelis Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I'm an architectural engineer myself and I'm always aware entering places with lots of people in it. You know; at least check out where the emergency exits are and fire extinguishers. I've more than once said out loud in Thailand: "If something goes wrong in here I'm royally f**ked". This doesn't mean you can prevent things like this from happening, but I think at least some lives could have been saved with proper regulation and, more importantly, proper enforcement of rules already existing. this. Sure. "This" would be nice (at a minimum) plus a healthy dose of common sense. But "this" ain't happening there. You're on notice to check where alternative exits are when in an enclosed structure because you're likely on your own if/when the sh*t again hits the fan there. You're pretty much screwed unless lucky if you happen to be in MBK. You don't think ANYTHING'S going to change due to this occurrence? If people didn't make uninformed comments to begin with (about my footwear, and attire, which they never even witnessed first hand, then I would have never even responded, simple. To make a comparison between "black leather" and "crocs" is retarded, to say the least, and then "guessing" about the person's other attire, same. I made a comment about Santika management policy, which might reflect on how other aspects of the "club" are managed, nothing more, then I was attacked by people that never met me. Sheesh.......get over yourself. If people didn't make uninformed comments the comedy factor would be lost; your retarded posts included. Who cares what "people who never met me" have to say about you because after all, THEY'VE NEVER MET YOU. Happy New Year. Nope I don't think anything will change.... But one can hope right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbroker Posted January 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I'm an architectural engineer myself and I'm always aware entering places with lots of people in it. You know; at least check out where the emergency exits are and fire extinguishers. I've more than once said out loud in Thailand: "If something goes wrong in here I'm royally f**ked". This doesn't mean you can prevent things like this from happening, but I think at least some lives could have been saved with proper regulation and, more importantly, proper enforcement of rules already existing. this. Sure. "This" would be nice (at a minimum) plus a healthy dose of common sense. But "this" ain't happening there. You're on notice to check where alternative exits are when in an enclosed structure because you're likely on your own if/when the sh*t again hits the fan there. You're pretty much screwed unless lucky if you happen to be in MBK. You don't think ANYTHING'S going to change due to this occurrence? If people didn't make uninformed comments to begin with (about my footwear, and attire, which they never even witnessed first hand, then I would have never even responded, simple. To make a comparison between "black leather" and "crocs" is retarded, to say the least, and then "guessing" about the person's other attire, same. I made a comment about Santika management policy, which might reflect on how other aspects of the "club" are managed, nothing more, then I was attacked by people that never met me. Sheesh.......get over yourself. If people didn't make uninformed comments the comedy factor would be lost; your retarded posts included. Who cares what "people who never met me" have to say about you because after all, THEY'VE NEVER MET YOU. Happy New Year. Nope I don't think anything will change.... But one can hope right? Hope springs eternal, but we live with reality. Maybe this next comment catches flak but I believe it's true and think it's difficult to argue otherwise: Low living cost and relaxed attitudes. This is Thailand and it's people. The so called "Thai way." Most of the time it produces wonderful results. But relaxed attitudes also often means relaxed or non-existent regulations or standards. Flimsy or inappropriate laws often change or disappear on a dime if they're bothered to be enforced at all. Pay enough bribe cash to the right party; issue solved. Corruption that's not just a problem but a tolerated, institutionalized business practice. Low living costs may also mean taking the cheap way out is more than just an art form. It may be compromising safety. Until the Thais themselves decide to change the way they do things and approach life, much will remain the same. A strong argument can and has been made the good far outweighs the bad and you don't want too much change. So you can't have it both ways, Gents. It's part and parcel of the entire experience. You'll have to tolerate the occasional man-made disaster and political upheaval and just hope you're not in the wrong place at the wrong time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetieBabie Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I call it 'love/hate s(h)ituation' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I'm an architectural engineer myself and I'm always aware entering places with lots of people in it. You know; at least check out where the emergency exits are and fire extinguishers. I've more than once said out loud in Thailand: "If something goes wrong in here I'm royally f**ked". This doesn't mean you can prevent things like this from happening, but I think at least some lives could have been saved with proper regulation and, more importantly, proper enforcement of rules already existing. this. Sure. "This" would be nice (at a minimum) plus a healthy dose of common sense. But "this" ain't happening there. You're on notice to check where alternative exits are when in an enclosed structure because you're likely on your own if/when the sh*t again hits the fan there. You're pretty much screwed unless lucky if you happen to be in MBK. You don't think ANYTHING'S going to change due to this occurrence? If people didn't make uninformed comments to begin with (about my footwear, and attire, which they never even witnessed first hand, then I would have never even responded, simple. To make a comparison between "black leather" and "crocs" is retarded, to say the least, and then "guessing" about the person's other attire, same. I made a comment about Santika management policy, which might reflect on how other aspects of the "club" are managed, nothing more, then I was attacked by people that never met me. Sheesh.......get over yourself. If people didn't make uninformed comments the comedy factor would be lost; your retarded posts included. Who cares what "people who never met me" have to say about you because after all, THEY'VE NEVER MET YOU. Happy New Year. Nope I don't think anything will change.... But one can hope right? Hope springs eternal, but we live with reality. Maybe this next comment catches flak but I believe it's true and think it's difficult to argue otherwise: Low living cost and relaxed attitudes. This is Thailand and it's people. The so called "Thai way." Most of the time it produces wonderful results. But relaxed attitudes also often means relaxed or non-existent regulations or standards. Flimsy or inappropriate laws often change or disappear on a dime if they're bothered to be enforced at all. Pay enough bribe cash to the right party; issue solved. Corruption that's not just a problem but a tolerated, institutionalized business practice. Low living costs may also mean taking the cheap way out is more than just an art form. It may be compromising safety. Until the Thais themselves decide to change the way they do things and approach life, much will remain the same. A strong argument can and has been made the good far outweighs the bad and you don't want too much change. So you can't have it both ways, Gents. It's part and parcel of the entire experience. You'll have to tolerate the occasional man-made disaster and political upheaval and just hope you're not in the wrong place at the wrong time. US for all its modern buildings and codes had a fire caused the same way. Being stupid is unfortunately not against the law. Indoor fireworks will hopefully not seem a good idea to more people :twisted: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbroker Posted January 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I call it 'love/hate s(h)ituation' Call it what you wish, Teerak. I hate to say it: It's killing your country. Economically, financially (tourism is likely finished for the foreseeable future) and most brutally, literally as we've seen on New Year's Eve. It's a damned shame and unnecessary. US for all its modern buildings and codes had a fire caused the same way. Being stupid is unfortunately not against the law. Indoor fireworks will hopefully not seem a good idea to more people :twisted: No one has suggested the risk can be eliminated. But it CAN be mitigated. To compare the U.S., its 50 states and 300+ million people to Thailand is a little rich, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I call it 'love/hate s(h)ituation' Call it what you wish, Teerak. I hate to say it: It's killing your country. Economically, financially (tourism is likely finished for the foreseeable future) and most brutally, literally as we've seen on New Year's Eve. It's a damn shame and unnecessary. US for all its modern buildings and codes had a fire caused the same way. Being stupid is unfortunately not against the law. Indoor fireworks will hopefully not seem a good idea to more people :twisted: No one has suggested the risk can be eliminated. But it CAN be mitigated. To compare the U.S., its 50 states and 300+ million people to Thailand is a little rich, no? I was pointing out that with all the advantages the US has that being stupid is still legal. You missed the point. Fireworks indoors are not a good idea not even for the thrill of music listeners. Its not the fact that thailand is a land without proper fire safety regulations that caused the fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 No one has suggested the risk can be eliminated. But it CAN be mitigated. To compare the U.S., its 50 states and 300+ million people to Thailand is a little rich, no? Not really. Stupid, selfish, greedy people exist everywhere. In Thailand, they end up killing 60 people in nightclub fires, etc. In the US, they destroy the life savings of millions of people while giving themselves golden parachutes and demanding the government bail them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbroker Posted January 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I call it 'love/hate s(h)ituation' Call it what you wish, Teerak. I hate to say it: It's killing your country. Economically, financially (tourism is likely finished for the foreseeable future) and most brutally, literally as we've seen on New Year's Eve. It's a damn shame and unnecessary. US for all its modern buildings and codes had a fire caused the same way. Being stupid is unfortunately not against the law. Indoor fireworks will hopefully not seem a good idea to more people :twisted: No one has suggested the risk can be eliminated. But it CAN be mitigated. To compare the U.S., its 50 states and 300+ million people to Thailand is a little rich, no? I was pointing out that with all the advantages the US has that being stupid is still legal. You missed the point. Fireworks indoors are not a good idea not even for the thrill of music listeners. Its not the fact that thailand is a land without proper fire safety regulations that caused the fire. I missed no points. Everything you stated with this exception: "Its not the fact that thailand is a land without proper fire safety regulations that caused the fire." is agreed to and obvious. You, on the other hand, disregarded my argument and missed my point. And what point is that, you ask? Let's try again: THE THAI'S PERMISSIVE LIVE AND LET LIVE ATTITUDE. Add the face loss concept and a strong desire not to speak their mind, "cause trouble" and upset the apple cart and you get something of a status quo that might at times be quite dangerous. It manifests in inactivity and stagnation. It impedes progress. We don't know yet but it may have been partly responsible for the sixty or so deaths that occurred New Year's Eve. No one has suggested the risk can be eliminated. But it CAN be mitigated. To compare the U.S., its 50 states and 300+ million people to Thailand is a little rich, no? Not really. Stupid, selfish, greedy people exist everywhere. In Thailand, they end up killing 60 people in nightclub fires, etc. In the US, they destroy the life savings of millions of people while giving themselves golden parachutes and demanding the government bail them out. Oy vey. Off topic are we? And, of course, it's all the Bush Administration's and those big, bad, Republicans' fault. Here come the tax and spend liberal Democrats to save the world from the bastards. You'll just never understand capitalism, will you? It's just easier to hate it. Oh well. Pointless. What's it like to live in La La Land? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 And, of course, it's all the Bush Administration's and those big, bad, Republicans' fault. I never named anyone. You did. Because you know it's true. LOL. What's it like to live in La La Land? I wouldn't know. But if I ever visit you, I'll be sure to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 (tourism is likely finished for the foreseeable future) Thailand's been ******* up like this for years, tourism takes a little knock but nothing life threatening. Saying its 'finished' is a bit of an over reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 vbroker wrote HE THAI'S PERMISSIVE LIVE AND LET LIVE ATTITUDE. This has nothing to do with the fire that the thread is about. The fire was started by people being stupid just like the US which has lots of fire codes had a fire during a Great White concert in a small club. You can't seem to grasp what I'm saying though. Glad you pointed that finger at Bush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 (tourism is likely finished for the foreseeable future) Thailand's been f*cking up like this for years, tourism takes a little knock but nothing life threatening. Saying its 'finished' is a bit of an over reaction. Nothing is going to stop guys from flocking to see the ladies. Money and the world economy will be more of a factor then one fire in one club. Its a tragedy and condolences to the families and for TFers who knew Ada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbroker Posted January 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 (tourism is likely finished for the foreseeable future) Thailand's been f*cking up like this for years, tourism takes a little knock but nothing life threatening. Saying its 'finished' is a bit of an over reaction. If I said it's finished you'd be right. I said it's likely finished for the foreseeable future. I'm only going on what I've read....projected 7 million visitors for '09 instead of the usual 16 or so million. If that's the case, that's no blip or "a little knock." Maybe it ain't life threatening but it could mean an economy or an industry on life support. That means numerous near empty hotels all over the country paying full staffs with nothing to do. That can't last there or anywhere with such a dependency on tourism for any lengthy stretch. vbroker wrote HE THAI'S PERMISSIVE LIVE AND LET LIVE ATTITUDE. This has nothing to do with the fire that the thread is about. The fire was started by people being stupid just like the US which has lots of fire codes had a fire during a Great White concert in a small club. You can't seem to grasp what I'm saying though. Glad you pointed that finger at Bush. Yes........my "grasping" capacity is reeeeeeaaaaaaal limited today, huh? You are traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind.............wait there's a signpost up ahead.....your next stop....take a guess, Pal. Nothing is going to stop guys from flocking to see the ladies. Bad news, Rod Serling. That's not the "tourist" the Thai authorities are primarily concerned with. Unless you make the argument they want to keep a certain cross section out. In case you missed it, they've once again changed the visa requirements with the supposed stated goal of REDUCING the visa run freaks and the like. No....it's the business traveler and families looking to enjoy Thai beaches and resorts Thailand wants to attract. The perception is those people tend to spend more there than their "punter" counterparts in shorter time frames. I'll be going back to my "grasping problems" now.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 vbroker wrote . In case you missed it, they've once again changed the visa requirements with the supposed stated goal of REDUCING the visa run freaks and the like. No....it's the business traveler and families looking to enjoy Thai beaches and resorts Thailand wants to attract. The perception is those people tend to spend more there than their "punter" counterparts in shorter time frames. Well the fact that they have to try to attract some and try to keep the others out speaks volumes doesn't it. Forest said it best :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I'll be going back to my "grasping problems" now.......... wanker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 vbroke wrote If I said it's finished you'd be right. I said it's likely finished for the foreseeable future. I'm only going on what I've read....projected 7 million visitors for '09 instead of the usual 16 or so million. If that's the case, that's no blip or "a little knock." Maybe it ain't life threatening but it could mean an economy or an industry on life support. That means numerous near empty hotels all over the country paying full staffs with nothing to do. That can't last there or anywhere with such a dependency on tourism for any lengthy stretch. And this is about the fire or are you referring to the airport takeover. The whole world is having an economic crisis at the moment. That might have something to do with tourism. Dam please spew again. Now I'm not saying that some rich bastards in America screwed up the worlds economy or anything. Naw I'm not saying that :roll: :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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