PeeMarc Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Where did you get that number from? There was another study at Asian study institution at CU, as I can recall. The study suggests that there were people live in Thailand (or whatever it called in the old day) before the Tai had moved here. I can't remember all the details, shame!!! but I will call a friend at the institution tomorrow so we can "roo dam roo dang." Central Thailand is the of Mon Davaravadi Kingdom. The Khmers of Angkor conquered and sacked Davaravadi Kingdom, These ppl are the native to Central Thailand before the Tai migrated down and conquered Sukothai and later Davaravadi. (Northern Thailand was a Mon kingdom called Haripunchai, before the Tai migrated down and conquered them. Southern Thailand was the Mon Kingdom Sri Dharmashoka, before King Ramkhamhaeng conquered them.) Siam can mean either two words in Sankrit, West or dark skin. Since the Khmers were the first ppl to coin the term Siam, I assume it means West, being that central Thailand is land west of Angkor. Or it can mean dark skin ppl, but that is not reflective of the Tai ppl, being that Tai ppl in general are considered light skin ppl. If Siam just means west or land west of Angkor, then the original Siamese could of been the Mon, but later became assoiciated with the Tai after they conquered the region and assimulated the local population of Mon and Khmer. Seems like someone has been reading some books. :!: Care to share what is the name of the book? I will get one for my farang husband and I will make him read it. why buy books when its a lot easier to research off the net, its free. i love it when farang know about Thai history, they tend to see things more neutral. like a new born baby, The internet can be full of craps. We never know where those info. are from. No one wants to believe in craps info. Books with decent writer names on and even better with a writer's real picture on the back page. It's more reliable. that is true, i like the pdf files, that come from books themselves. i have several books but it started to get expensive. but i agree about the stuff thats out there you must be Thai since youre consistantly slippery and vague about answering direct questions. In this case "what books?". It just requires a simple (helpful) direct answer. I would like to know also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidai Posted June 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Where did you get that number from? There was another study at Asian study institution at CU, as I can recall. The study suggests that there were people live in Thailand (or whatever it called in the old day) before the Tai had moved here. I can't remember all the details, shame!!! but I will call a friend at the institution tomorrow so we can "roo dam roo dang." Central Thailand is the of Mon Davaravadi Kingdom. The Khmers of Angkor conquered and sacked Davaravadi Kingdom, These ppl are the native to Central Thailand before the Tai migrated down and conquered Sukothai and later Davaravadi. (Northern Thailand was a Mon kingdom called Haripunchai, before the Tai migrated down and conquered them. Southern Thailand was the Mon Kingdom Sri Dharmashoka, before King Ramkhamhaeng conquered them.) Siam can mean either two words in Sankrit, West or dark skin. Since the Khmers were the first ppl to coin the term Siam, I assume it means West, being that central Thailand is land west of Angkor. Or it can mean dark skin ppl, but that is not reflective of the Tai ppl, being that Tai ppl in general are considered light skin ppl. If Siam just means west or land west of Angkor, then the original Siamese could of been the Mon, but later became assoiciated with the Tai after they conquered the region and assimulated the local population of Mon and Khmer. Seems like someone has been reading some books. :!: Care to share what is the name of the book? I will get one for my farang husband and I will make him read it. why buy books when its a lot easier to research off the net, its free. i love it when farang know about Thai history, they tend to see things more neutral. like a new born baby, The internet can be full of craps. We never know where those info. are from. No one wants to believe in craps info. Books with decent writer names on and even better with a writer's real picture on the back page. It's more reliable. that is true, i like the pdf files, that come from books themselves. i have several books but it started to get expensive. but i agree about the stuff thats out there you must be Thai since youre consistantly slippery and vague about answering direct questions. In this case "what books?". It just requires a simple (helpful) direct answer. I would like to know also. David K. Wyatt is one of my favorite authors, he is one of if not the most well known western scholars of Thai history, and the history of southeast asia Thailand: A Short History by Mr. David K. Wyatt are you happy now? :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Are you suggesting the Thai people who are, for example, Khmer descendents and who speak the Khmer language are not Thai? hold up, wouldnt a person who is Khmer ethnic be Khmer ethnic and not Thai ethnic? You lost me a bit, so someone can be 2 ethnics at the same time, even thought hey are not mixed? ... know that i didnt say those Khmer's are Thai, just not Thai ethnic. You are confusing nationality with ethnicity. Thai nationals are a diverse collection of ethnicities. So in other words, Thailand has more than one ethnicity. You could call it the Thai ethnic group, but as you yourself noted, Khmer people are Khmer. I would agree that they are Khmer ethnicity, but if they are citizens of Thailand then they are Thai nationals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 so who the hell is Fred? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Midnight_Girl Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 [quote name="maidaiThen what ethnic are Thai ppl considered as? are the Ethnic Mon considered Ethnic Thai? are the ethnic Lao of Isaan considered Ethnic Thai? what do you consider the Nothern Thais an ethnic of? Mong is Mong, not Thai. Laos is Laos, not Thai. D'accord? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJack Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Mong is Mong, not Thai. Laos is Laos, not Thai. D'accord? Thailand used to be Laos, didn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetieBabie Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Thailand used to be Laos, didn't it? No, I believe big part of Lao today, used to be Siam Kingdom until the French Colonized. Anyway, my current nationality is Thai, my ethnic is Asian. At least that's what my teacher always told me to fill the card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJack Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Thailand used to be Laos, didn't it? No, I believe big part of Lao today, used to be Siam Kingdom until the French Colonized. Anyway, my current nationality is Thai, my ethnic is Asian. At least that's what my teacher always told me to fill the card. large parts of present day Thailand were at one time Laos. very little of present day Laos has ever been any part of Thailand. what would a Thai teacher know about Thai history, anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotsnowman Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Large parts of Isan are quite new additions to Thailand from neigboring countries and not vice versa. Just go to Soy Cowboy and most girls talk lao or khmer because that is where their roots are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 what would a Thai teacher know about Thai history, anyway? FFS ... with that "soberity" comment in Dave's forum yesterday and then this one u r on a real roll Jack !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetieBabie Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 large parts of present day Thailand were at one time Laos. very little of present day Laos has ever been any part of Thailand. Large part of Lao, and Cambodia, were once belong to Thailand. http://www.baanmaha.com/community/12519-%E0%B8%AB%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%9E%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%87-%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%8A%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A1-%E0%B9%82%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%94%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%82%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%AD%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99-%E0%B8%88%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%B2.html Well, this is all i can say (find). »ÃÃà ·Èä·Âä´éà ÊÕ´ԹᴹãËéá¡è½ÃÑè§à ÈÊÃÇà 5 ¤ÃÑé§ à »ç¹¾×é¹·Õè·Ñé§ÊÔé¹ 481,600 µÒÃÒ§¡ÔâÅà õà ¹ÑºµÑé§áµè»ÅÒÂÃѪÊÃÑ ¾ÃúҷÊÃà ´ç¨¾ÃèÃÃà ¡ÅéÒà ¨¹¶Ö§ÃѪÊÃѢç¾ÃúҷÊÃà ´ç¨¾ÃèØŨÃÃà ¡ÅéÒà â´Âä·ÂµéçÂÔ¹ÂÃÃà ÊÕ´ԹᴹºÒ§Êèǹä» à ¾×èÃÃÑ¡ÉÒà áÃÒªáÅôԹᴹÊèǹãËÂèäÇé ·ÓãËé¾×é¹·Õè»ÃÃà ·Èä·Âà ËÅ×ÃÃÂÙèà ¾Õ§ 513,600 µÒÃÒ§¡ÔâÅà õà Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJack Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 large parts of present day Thailand were at one time Laos. very little of present day Laos has ever been any part of Thailand. Large part of Lao, and Cambodia, were once belong to Thailand. http://www.baanmaha.com/community/12519-%E0%B8%AB%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%9E%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%87-%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%8A%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A1-%E0%B9%82%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%94%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%82%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%AD%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99-%E0%B8%88%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%B2.html Well, this is all i can say (find). »ÃÃà ·Èä·Âä´éà ÊÕ´ԹᴹãËéá¡è½ÃÑè§à ÈÊÃÇà 5 ¤ÃÑé§ à »ç¹¾×é¹·Õè·Ñé§ÊÔé¹ 481,600 µÒÃÒ§¡ÔâÅà õà ¹ÑºµÑé§áµè»ÅÒÂÃѪÊÃÑ ¾ÃúҷÊÃà ´ç¨¾ÃèÃÃà ¡ÅéÒà ¨¹¶Ö§ÃѪÊÃѢç¾ÃúҷÊÃà ´ç¨¾ÃèØŨÃÃà ¡ÅéÒà â´Âä·ÂµéçÂÔ¹ÂÃÃà ÊÕ´ԹᴹºÒ§Êèǹä» à ¾×èÃÃÑ¡ÉÒà áÃÒªáÅôԹᴹÊèǹãËÂèäÇé ·ÓãËé¾×é¹·Õè»ÃÃà ·Èä·Âà ËÅ×ÃÃÂÙèà ¾Õ§ 513,600 µÒÃÒ§¡ÔâÅà õà all I know is Laos is a superior culture. They have better temples. Thai temples are like McDonalds - all the same. But in Laos and even Burma they have some stylin' temples. that goes a long way with a guy like me. Long Live The Laos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotsnowman Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Can you provide any translation of that link? It seems to be sort of revisionistic history. Have to realise that Isan in general has been fighting ground between Khmers, Lao and Siamese. So it is narrow to present view that would say that most Lao has been part of Thailand when that is not true and the truth is actually in bigger view vice versa. I recommend seeing other sources than Thai web boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce551 Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 From about 1250 to 1400 there three Kingdoms in what's called Thailand today. Lan Na, (Chiang Mai, King Mangrai) which included parts of the Shan State and Luang Prabang, Lao. Sukhothai, middle of Thailand and East to Vientiane. Ayutthaya, south of Thailand. South East of Ayutthaya was the Angkorean Empire (Cambodia), quite strong during this period. Early Chinese references to Tai peoples of Southeast asia say that the Tai people were inhabitants of the valleys and low lands, rather the hillsides and uplands. They had an economy bases on rice cultivation, many Tai groups raised water buffalo. They build their houses raised piles above ground in contrast to their Chinese and Vietnamese neighbors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotsnowman Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 By the way, not related: is buffaloes used as meat al all? or is it similar to horse meat in Europe where horse was work animal and later only for sports, and is not eaten except when it gets old when the meat aint that tasty anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJack Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 By the way, not related: is buffaloes used as meat al all? or is it similar to horse meat in Europe where horse was work animal and later only for sports, and is not eaten except when it gets old when the meat aint that tasty anyway. hell yeah. its what's for dinner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotsnowman Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I want to try out buffalo meat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorea Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I want to try out buffalo meat. Most of salted, dried meat in Thailand made from buffalo meat. Possibly, You have tried it. You just don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 all I know is Laos is a superior culture. They have better temples. Thai temples are like McDonalds - all the same. But in Laos and even Burma they have some stylin' temples. that goes a long way with a guy like me. Long Live The Laos! They have hotter girls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotsnowman Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Pandorea: Ohh! Hmm ok, just that I like to try all kinds of meats, except endagered species. So I "collect" mentally new flavors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJack Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I want to try out buffalo meat. do you actually live here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juddie Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Many ethnic groups who live in Thailand are not full Thai citizens (by that i mean they are not given full ID cards) rather they are classed as "hilltribes" and given different colour cards. I think there are 14 different colours for different people all affording them different rights e.g. freedom of movement, access to services etc. In my experience of living and working with Karen, Karenni, Tai Yai, Lahu and Lisu this poses real problems and is a bit strange as many of these groups have lived within the current Thai boundaries for many generations. A new law was introduced about 18 months ago stating that any child born in Thailand is entitled to Thai citizenship as long as a proper birth certificate is produced but many of these groups do not go to hospital to give birth and many don't speak Thai as their first language. The lack of the basic right of freedom of movement is the worst and is quite degrading. For example, someone holding a pink ID card in MaeHongSon town can't move further than 12 km south (Ban Pa Bong) or 60 km north to Pang Mapha. Why is this? What do the rest of Thailand think is going to happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 so who the hell is Fred? I think our friend with contentious ethnic origin was referring to those cheeky purveyors of popular music 'Right said Fred' whose trademark was follicly challenged heads, not unlike a certain nightclub manager with an allegedly large appendage... :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalcat Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 so who the hell is Fred? I think our friend with contentious ethnic origin was referring to those cheeky purveyors of popular music 'Right said Fred' whose trademark was follicly challenged heads, not unlike a certain nightclub manager with an allegedly large appendage... :wink: Well said, scholarly almost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidai Posted June 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Are you suggesting the Thai people who are, for example, Khmer descendents and who speak the Khmer language are not Thai? hold up, wouldnt a person who is Khmer ethnic be Khmer ethnic and not Thai ethnic? You lost me a bit, so someone can be 2 ethnics at the same time, even thought hey are not mixed? ... know that i didnt say those Khmer's are Thai, just not Thai ethnic. You are confusing nationality with ethnicity. Thai nationals are a diverse collection of ethnicities. So in other words, Thailand has more than one ethnicity. You could call it the Thai ethnic group, but as you yourself noted, Khmer people are Khmer. I would agree that they are Khmer ethnicity, but if they are citizens of Thailand then they are Thai nationals. i agree with you, Thai is a nationality as well as an ethnicity. Thai being a nationality means anyone who is a citizen of thailand is a Thai national right. but they have to have some lineange of Tai ppl to be ethnic Thai, which is the only difference ppl seem to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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