“unscrupulous.� Thaksin

[Bruce551]

Thai Court Seizes $1.4 Billion From Ex-Premier

By SETH MYDANS and THOMAS FULLER

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/27/world/asia/27thai.html?hpw=&pagewanted=print

BANGKOK — Thailand’s Supreme Court on Friday confiscated $1.4 billion in frozen assets from the nation’s fugitive former prime minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, after finding him guilty of illegally concealing his ownership of a family company and abusing his power to benefit the companies he owned.

But it softened the blow by allowing him to keep the remainder of what had been $2.3 billion in frozen assets, saying that “to seize all the money would be unfair because some of it was made before Thaksin became prime minister.â€

The case resonates in Thailand beyond the assets of one man, part of a long-running and sporadically violent confrontation that has divided the country.

It has pitted the nation’s rural and urban poor, who support Mr. Thaksin, against the established ruling class, whose control of the political system he challenged during his six years as prime minister.

“This case is very political,†Mr. Thaksin said during a televised response from an undisclosed location outside the country. “The court was used to get rid of a politician. The ruling will be a joke for the world.â€

In reading the verdict on Friday, the nine-judge panel repeatedly described Mr. Thaksin’s business dealings as “unscrupulous.â€

It ruled unanimously that Mr. Thaksin and his former wife, Pojaman, falsely claimed to have transferred their shares of his telecommunications company, Shin Corporation, to family members because he was not allowed to hold them while prime minister.

The court said that Mr. Thaksin, a telecommunications billionaire who was ousted in a coup in 2006, had abused power by tailoring government policies to benefit Shin Corporation and related businesses.

“The accused unscrupulously received money from selling shares through the use of his political powers,†a judge said.

The paradox of Mr. Thaksin’s political movement — that a billionaire telecommunications tycoon has inspired a large number of poor, disaffected voters with populist policies like inexpensive health care and financial assistance — was on display Friday at the headquarters of the main opposition party, where his followers gathered to hear the verdict.

“It’s not fair; there’s no justice any longer in Thailand,†said Sunaree Siraseehakul, 72, a clothing trader in Bangkok.

Calm at first, the crowd at the opposition headquarters angrily shouted obscenities as the judges read the verdict. They broke into a chant: “Thaksin, fight! Fight!â€

By late in the evening, there were no reports of the violent reaction that the government had warned about. Thousands of police officers and soldiers had been placed on alert around Bangkok to guard against protests by Mr. Thaksin’s supporters.

Riot police officers with shields and helmets guarded the courthouse as the nine justices spent more than seven hours reading out the arguments and their ruling.

Mr. Thaksin’s supporters, known as the red shirts for the outfits they wear at rallies, have been violent in the past. But they denied that they had planned demonstrations on Friday. Instead, they said, they are organizing a mass rally in Bangkok for mid-March.

“We will not do anything today,†said Sit Kitanon, 58, a businessman in a red shirt, as he stood in front of the courthouse. “Today is not our day. But our day will come.â€

He added: “If the court destroys Thaksin, the court is destroying democracy. I am not here for Thaksin, but I care about justice.â€

Mr. Thaksin sold Shin Corporation to a Singaporean holding company in January 2006, a transaction that evaded taxes, aroused anger and prompted street demonstrations that set the stage for the coup nine months later.

When the generals who staged the coup gave up power in a new election a little more than a year later, a party backing Mr. Thaksin was overwhelmingly elected.

Protests resumed, and in August 2008, thousands of anti-Thaksin demonstrators, known as yellow shirts, barricaded the prime minister’s compound, setting up a tent city and demanding that the government be dissolved.

In late November 2008, they took over Bangkok’s two airports for a week, stranding thousands of passengers.

They ended their protests in December, when a court found the pro-Thaksin governing party guilty of electoral fraud, forcing its dissolution.

The current government, led by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, took office in a parliamentary vote. Since then, it has been the pro-Thaksin protesters who have been demanding the dissolution of what they call an unelected government.

In April 2009, they forced the closing of a regional summit meeting in Pattaya, a resort town southeast of Bangkok, and shortly afterward paralyzed the capital with riots that left two people dead.

Many in Bangkok took the government’s warnings to heart and stayed off the streets on Friday, some of them following the court proceedings on radio and on voice feeds to television. Some people said that in the charged atmosphere, they were avoiding wearing the colors red or yellow for fear of starting an argument.

“It is a sensitive day,†said Weena Sirithinpayak, a saleswoman in a shopping mall in central Bangkok.

But it seems to be a given here now that Thailand’s acrimonious divide will not be resolved easily, or perhaps even peacefully.

“It’s becoming more of a class thing, and I’m worried about that,†said Rainy Phrompechrut, a writer for a golf magazine.

In a running blog on the court session, Thanong Khanthong, a columnist for the English-language newspaper The Nation, wrote, “The potential clash looks inevitable, as any political compromise is out of the question.â€

Mr. Thaksin has been living out of the country since August 2007, after jumping bail and fleeing a two-year sentence for violating conflict of interest rules in connection with the purchase of land in Bangkok while he was prime minister.

But Mr. Thaksin has remained a political force in Thailand as he has traveled the world from his base in Dubai and apparently retains enough wealth to finance a nationwide political machine.

:?

Thailand is dragging a monumental amount of historical social-political bagage and many Thais will not let go and begin anew.

[Bruce551]

Khun Korn,

Personal reflections on the assets seizure case

* Published: 5/03/2010 at 12:00 AM

* Newspaper section: News

It is now a week since the celebrated ruling on Thaksin Shinawatra's private assets was announced, and I have yet to air my opinion on the verdict.

Korn Chatikavanij: ‘‘I remember that all of Thaksin’s actions at that time indicated he was the real owner of the assets and had hidden all of his shareholdings all along.’’

This is partly because I felt that many people have already been talking about the issue, but it is also because this is an issue close to my heart as I have been personally involved for some time. I also wanted my own opinion and emotions to crystallise before I spoke out.

Today my thoughts on this issue are more settled.

I became involved with the assets concealment issue when Thaksin sold his shareholdings in Shin Corp to Temasek Holdings of Singapore in January 2006, a year after I became an opposition Member of Parliament. I remember that all of Thaksin's actions at that time indicated that he was the real owner of the assets and had hidden all of his shareholdings all along.

Thaksin flew to Singapore to negotiate the sale of Shin Corp shares while informing the public that he was on a leisure trip. He hurriedly amended the legislation on shareholding limits under the Telecom Act so that he could sell his shareholdings and he did everything he could in order to avoid paying tax.

At that time, I did two things.

First, I pointed out that there was evidence at the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) indicating that Thaksin secretly owned his Shin Corp shares via an account at Singapore UBS Bank. Second, I filed a complaint with the Revenue Department that the transactions involving the transfer of shares to Thaksin's children carried a tax liability.

I recalled that it was difficult to receive cooperation from government agencies on this issue. Worse, there were attempts to look into my record in the securities industry to see if there was any information that could be used to discredit me.

Revenue Department officials also leaked my tax records, which are confidential, to Thai Rak Thai MPs. Fortunately, I'd never done anything to harm my reputation. Nonetheless, almost all of my relatives were threatened during that time.

The question I would like to raise is, if the coup did not happen in 2006 and the Assets Scrutiny Committee (ASC) had not existed, would we see justice being served in this case?

When the ASC was set up, I brought all the evidence to them, helped them analyse the information, and explained to them on matters regarding securities and securities trading, which was quite complicated and difficult to understand.

I remember the day I walked into the ASC office - the office space being temporarily borrowed from the Office of the Auditor-General of Thailand. There were many Thaksin supporters (not yet wearing red shirts at that time) surrounding the office, shouting profanities directly at us. That day, Khun Kaewsan (Atibhodhi), an ASC official responsible for the assets concealment case, was on the receiving end of most of the abuse.

Today, the crux of this trial was to prove that Thaksin actually did conceal his assets, and to prove that this was a conflict of interest between his policy and his assets. The Supreme Court ruled with a unanimous verdict that Thaksin concealed his assets.

Thinking back to the year 2006, Thaksin, Potjaman, Panthongtae and Pinthongta all came out to blatantly lie again and again that they in fact did not conceal assets. However, in the end the evidence was simply too compelling.

Back to the question, though: if there had not been a coup, would justice have prevailed?

And why can't Thai society not achieve justice without having to rely on coup-makers initiating the process? Does this mean that sometimes "undemocratic" actors place more emphasis on truth and justice than democratic ones?

Maybe it is because the majority of Thais do not sufficiently care about truth and justice. As long as our businesses are doing well and there is food on the table, we Thais appear willing to live with corruption.

But is this mindset wrong? Truth and justice cannot fill empty stomachs. Perhaps, therefore, only the wealthy have the time and inclination to ponder on matters such as justice while the poor, who have to struggle to feed their families, do not have that luxury.

And when the majority is made up of poor people and the majority voice is what counts in a democracy, the resounding answer is seemingly "We don't care."

Having said that, we all know many businessmen and the well-to-do also "don't care". It's easy for anybody to say they want truth and justice, but just how many are prepared to sacrifice something to realise this?

If everyone acts according to their duty, justice will manifest itself. It will require no intervention - coup or otherwise. We wouldn't need to go searching for it.

This, I would say, is the most important message from this case.

In the end, over the past five days, I've had a growing sense that the court decision really was fair.

Had it been my decision, I would have seized the entire 76 billion baht. My rationale would have been simple: by only seizing the "gained" portion, this meant Thaksin had essentially broken even on his scheme, even though he cheated.

But the truth is that there will be more lawsuits to follow. The Exim Bank, for example, was instructed to make cheap loans available to the Government of Burma to procure goods from Thaksin's company.

I know many people's reaction will be: "Isn't this enough? Can we get to work on reconciliation now?"

But this is temperament talking, and reflects a lack of sense of duty.

As for me, I will continue to perform my role to the best of my ability in part because there needs to be a counter-force to Thaksin's destructive hypocrisy. To this date, Thaksin has not shown any remorse, nor a sense of responsibility for the crimes he has committed upon our country. Instead, he has chosen to play the role of the victim and has gone so far as to hold the country to ransom unless he gets his selfish ways.

I, for one, cannot and will not accept the terms of Thaksin's arrogant conditions - not because of any personal vendetta I hold against him, but because my present positions as Member of Parliament and Minister oblige me with certain duties I cannot renege upon.

More importantly, if there is any lesson I have learnt during the past four-five years' struggle with Thaksin's regime, it is that we do not have the privilege nor the luxury to pass this difficult responsibility on to others.

I have written a rather lengthy note, in part because this note is a personal reflection for my own personal mental review.

Lastly, when I glance back at what transpired five days ago, I can still feel an air of sadness lingering over the court's decision. This is by no means because I disagree with the verdict, because I want to make clear that I am duly respectful and accepting of the verdict - which will be considered a great precedent and a genuine classic for the country's judicial system.

Nevertheless, I can't help but feel a sense of heartache over the fact that we as a country may not be able to truly appreciate the profound lessons that can be derived from this episode.

At the end of the day, I am left asking whether how much we, as Thais, do value the notion of truth and justice? More importantly, the bigger question is whether we are willing to sacrifice our personal liberty in order to protect public rights?

I worry about how most of us would answer the above questions, but I remain resolved in my endeavour to labour for the betterment of our country.

Korn Chatikavanij is Minister of Finance. He can be reached via email at: [email protected].e

In early 2006 I was helping the Karen Network with the PEA Solar Home System project, 200,000 poorly designed SHS that were in failure mode, a Thaksin project.

I remember speaking with Khun Thai in various branches of gov. who were very stand-offish and afraid of retribution from Thai Ral Thai party.

IMHO Khun Korn is stand-up kind of guy, Thailand is fortunate have him in government service.

[bigKus]

Khun Korn,

Personal reflections on the assets seizure case

* Published: 5/03/2010 at 12:00 AM

* Newspaper section: News

IMHO Khun Korn is stand-up kind of guy, Thailand is fortunate have him in government service.

while people were terrifying with what would the result come out from the court in Thaksin's Case last couple weeks. Khun Korn was travelling quietly to UK for "Banker of The Year" Award reception, organized by Economist Magazine "The Banker"

http://www.thebanker.com/news/categoryfront.php/id/712/Big_Interviews.html

http://www.thebanker.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/7013/Finance_Minister_of_the_Year_2010_-_Global_and_Asia-Pacific.html

[PeeMarc]

At the end of the day, I am left asking whether how much we, as Thais, do value the notion of truth and justice? More importantly, the bigger question is whether we are willing to sacrifice our personal liberty in order to protect public rights?

I think this says it all, in a land where the line between truth and fantasy (lies) is often so blurred, at all levels of society, that few can see much difference any more.

From an outside perspective, I am often reminded of children.

[bigKus]

At the end of the day, I am left asking whether how much we, as Thais, do value the notion of truth and justice? More importantly, the bigger question is whether we are willing to sacrifice our personal liberty in order to protect public rights?

I think this says it all, in a land where the line between truth and fantasy (lies) is often so blurred, at all levels of society, that few can see much difference any more.

From an outside perspective, I am often reminded of children.

Do you mean Khon Thais are too jai dee for you, chai mai kha ??

[PeeMarc]

At the end of the day, I am left asking whether how much we, as Thais, do value the notion of truth and justice? More importantly, the bigger question is whether we are willing to sacrifice our personal liberty in order to protect public rights?

I think this says it all, in a land where the line between truth and fantasy (lies) is often so blurred, at all levels of society, that few can see much difference any more.

From an outside perspective, I am often reminded of children.

Do you mean Khon Thais are too jai dee for you, chai mai kha ??

Sorry, I cannot see how your question (or jai dee) has anything to do with what I said and quoted.

[bigKus]

At the end of the day, I am left asking whether how much we, as Thais, do value the notion of truth and justice? More importantly, the bigger question is whether we are willing to sacrifice our personal liberty in order to protect public rights?

I think this says it all, in a land where the line between truth and fantasy (lies) is often so blurred, at all levels of society, that few can see much difference any more.

From an outside perspective, I am often reminded of children.

Do you mean Khon Thais are too jai dee for you, chai mai kha ??

Sorry, I cannot see how your question (or jai dee) has anything to do with what I said and quoted.

Oh.. okay, I saw you quoted Khun Korn's statement I thought you have read all of his personal reflections to the case.

:roll:

[English_Bob]

Thaksin had a great opportunity to fade away with (just) a billion dollars.

By continuing this obscene facade, he is creating more and more disharmony amongst Thais.

In the previous forum about the Thaksin Verdict, I wrote that there should now be criminal charges brought against him. After all, confiscating his ill-gotten gains is equitable to freeing a bank robber as long as he hands back the loot.

One thing I notice, sadly, is that when it comes to discussions of Thai politics, Thai people don't like to get involved. See how many Thai Friends are discussing this issue which is of HUGE importance to their country.

In addition, how is it that dirt poor rice farmers can cry for Thaksin who has gained a billion dollars, when it is clear they will never see a millionth of that amount? He is the most unlikely of heroes for these people... And when he goes on to denounce the ÃÓÃÒµÂì (I think this is the word), he fails to realise that HE is the worst of them!

[bigKus]

One thing I notice, sadly, is that when it comes to discussions of Thai politics, Thai people don't like to get involved. See how many Thai Friends are discussing this issue which is of HUGE importance to their country.

If you mean TH people in this site, they are more interest in what had happened at the pool party than what TS deserves.

Now most of TH people sicked of TS's issues, the 'judment day' was the last thing about TS that they would care to know.

add: From now on, Thailand is moving to Post-Thaksin era. be careful, debating about Thaksin would be looked as old-fashioned

[English_Bob]

One thing I notice, sadly, is that when it comes to discussions of Thai politics, Thai people don't like to get involved. See how many Thai Friends are discussing this issue which is of HUGE importance to their country.

If you mean TH people in this site, they are more interest in what had happened at the pool party than what TS deserves.

Now most of TH people sicked of TS's issues, the 'judment day' was the last thing about TS that they would care to know.

I do mean TF people... on Judgement Day, the only people writing about the case were foreigners. I started a forum on the verdict which died after only 2 or 3 comments.

And of my 10 staff, only one of them wanted to know the verdict, whereas most of my (foreign) customers asked me about the verdict.

Is it normal that Thai people aren't very interested in politics? It seems that way to me, or is it that Thai people don't want to discuss them with a foreigner?

[bigKus]

One thing I notice, sadly, is that when it comes to discussions of Thai politics, Thai people don't like to get involved. See how many Thai Friends are discussing this issue which is of HUGE importance to their country.

If you mean TH people in this site, they are more interest in what had happened at the pool party than what TS deserves.

Now most of TH people sicked of TS's issues, the 'judment day' was the last thing about TS that they would care to know.

I do mean TF people... on Judgement Day, the only people writing about the case were foreigners. I started a forum on the verdict which died after only 2 or 3 comments.

And of my 10 staff, only one of them wanted to know the verdict, whereas most of my (foreign) customers asked me about the verdict.

Is it normal that Thai people aren't very interested in politics? It seems that way to me, or is it that Thai people don't want to discuss them with a foreigner?

I think, on Judgement Day, not only your forum thread that died but all forum thread re left dying. Its not because your topic doesnt interesting but TF members were not get used to the vividy-colorful of site new design..

TH people are more interest in politics than before, which to me I consider it reflects the level of educations. I mostly discuss politics with friends from University as we knew each person perspective about it. We avoid to discuss with people meet in gerneral Thai politic is still sensitive issue especially in last 10 years.

[Loburt]

while people were terrifying with what would the result come out from the court in Thaksin's Case last couple weeks. Khun Korn was travelling quietly to UK for "Banker of The Year" Award reception, organized by Economist Magazine "The Banker"

http://www.thebanker.com/news/categoryfront.php/id/712/Big_Interviews.html

http://www.thebanker.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/7013/Finance_Minister_of_the_Year_2010_-_Global_and_Asia-Pacific.html

You have the wrong information. The links you posted don't substantiate your claim.

First, Korn received the award in Bangkok four days before the verdict. Here is a link that shows it.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/economics/33357/korn-dismisses-quick-exit-strategy

Second, the Bangkok Post quotes him as telling investors the verdict won't affect them in its Feb 27 issue, the day after the verdict. Which means the reporters spoke to him on the day of the verdict after it was delivered.

The story was datelined Bangkok, not London.

[Chatty]

One thing I notice, sadly, is that when it comes to discussions of Thai politics, Thai people don't like to get involved. See how many Thai Friends are discussing this issue which is of HUGE importance to their country.

If you mean TH people in this site, they are more interest in what had happened at the pool party than what TS deserves.

Now most of TH people sicked of TS's issues, the 'judment day' was the last thing about TS that they would care to know.

I do mean TF people... on Judgement Day, the only people writing about the case were foreigners. I started a forum on the verdict which died after only 2 or 3 comments.

And of my 10 staff, only one of them wanted to know the verdict, whereas most of my (foreign) customers asked me about the verdict.

Is it normal that Thai people aren't very interested in politics? It seems that way to me, or is it that Thai people don't want to discuss them with a foreigner?

I have seen the journal you talked about. To be honest I gave up to give any comments about my politics view here... especially, in that Chinese guy's journal.. it's not worth in to waste my time... I usually share my view with friends of mine, my teachers, prof. in person or even on my FB. some ppl on my list might have seen some of it.

On the verdict day.. all people in my office (about 30 ppl) turned on the radio just listened to the judge... we talked about it on the hallways, in the office...

So we really interested in that case.. No Thai ppl post anything about Thaksin on TF doesn't mean we feel nothing/ know nothing or doesn't care anything.

For me, I just don't give a **** on what that guy say. That's all.

[bigKus]

while people were terrifying with what would the result come out from the court in Thaksin's Case last couple weeks. Khun Korn was travelling quietly to UK for "Banker of The Year" Award reception, organized by Economist Magazine "The Banker"

http://www.thebanker.com/news/categoryfront.php/id/712/Big_Interviews.html

http://www.thebanker.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/7013/Finance_Minister_of_the_Year_2010_-_Global_and_Asia-Pacific.html

You have the wrong information. The links you posted don't substantiate your claim.

First, Korn received the award in Bangkok four days before the verdict. Here is a link that shows it.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/economics/33357/korn-dismisses-quick-exit-strategy

Second, the Bangkok Post quotes him as telling investors the verdict won't affect them in its Feb 27 issue, the day after the verdict. Which means the reporters spoke to him on the day of the verdict after it was delivered.

The story was datelined Bangkok, not London.

ja..

Actually, i read from TH local newspapers before the verdict date and roughly searched for the link to support it here.

but in your second point I m not quite understand, will be back later 'drink time'

:?

[Loburt]

while people were terrifying with what would the result come out from the court in Thaksin's Case last couple weeks. Khun Korn was travelling quietly to UK for "Banker of The Year" Award reception, organized by Economist Magazine "The Banker"

http://www.thebanker.com/news/categoryfront.php/id/712/Big_Interviews.html

http://www.thebanker.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/7013/Finance_Minister_of_the_Year_2010_-_Global_and_Asia-Pacific.html

You have the wrong information. The links you posted don't substantiate your claim.

First, Korn received the award in Bangkok four days before the verdict. Here is a link that shows it.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/economics/33357/korn-dismisses-quick-exit-strategy

Second, the Bangkok Post quotes him as telling investors the verdict won't affect them in its Feb 27 issue, the day after the verdict. Which means the reporters spoke to him on the day of the verdict after it was delivered.

The story was datelined Bangkok, not London.

ja..

Actually, i read from TH local newspapers before the verdict date and roughly searched for the link to support it here.

but in your second point I m not quite understand, will be back later 'drink time'

:?

I will try clarify my second point for you:

Korn was quoted in the Feb. 27 issue of the Bangkok Post as telling investors that the guilty verdict won't affect them.

For Korn's quote to appear in the Feb. 27 issue of the newspaper, he would have had to have spoken to the reporter the previous day, Feb. 26, the day of the verdict. What's in today's newspaper happened yesterday. I'm sure you realize that.

As he was speaking about a guilty verdict, the verdict had already been delivered.

As the story in the Post (Feb. 27 issue Page 2), including the headline, was about Korn's reaction, if he had been in London receiving the award, either the dateline on the story would have read LONDON, Feb 26, or the reporter would have written somewhere in the story "blah blah blah,'' said Finance Minister Korn Chatikavanij from London where he was receiving the Finance Minister of the Year Award.

As that did not appear in the story, it means he was speaking from Bangkok, as usual.

And if he had been in London receiving the award that day or the day after, there would have been a separate story about it in the Post and the Nation and a picture of it the following day.

There were none. He was in Bangkok.

[admin]

I wouldn't necessarily agree that it's only a TF thing. I've talked to numerous Thais who have shown total disinterest in anything in the political realm. The Thaksin case isn't the only evidence of this. I've been on holiday here during elections and made a comment about such and such a night won't be good for going out because all the bars are supposed to be closed for the election and out of a group of 6 or 7 people not one had any idea there was an election (despite the signs and banners up on every overpass).

But I guess it works the other way around too. In all the time I've been coming here I've never had a Thai person discuss Bush. And believe me, living in Europe all one has to hear is your accent and they'll tell you everything about how the US is f*cking up the world and all Americans are fat, lazy and stupid (despite their own country being not that far behind on all those measures).

[bigKus]

while people were terrifying with what would the result come out from the court in Thaksin's Case last couple weeks. Khun Korn was travelling quietly to UK for "Banker of The Year" Award reception, organized by Economist Magazine "The Banker"

http://www.thebanker.com/news/categoryfront.php/id/712/Big_Interviews.html

http://www.thebanker.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/7013/Finance_Minister_of_the_Year_2010_-_Global_and_Asia-Pacific.html

You have the wrong information. The links you posted don't substantiate your claim.

First, Korn received the award in Bangkok four days before the verdict. Here is a link that shows it.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/economics/33357/korn-dismisses-quick-exit-strategy

Second, the Bangkok Post quotes him as telling investors the verdict won't affect them in its Feb 27 issue, the day after the verdict. Which means the reporters spoke to him on the day of the verdict after it was delivered.

The story was datelined Bangkok, not London.

ja..

Actually, i read from TH local newspapers before the verdict date and roughly searched for the link to support it here.

but in your second point I m not quite understand, will be back later 'drink time'

:?

I will try clarify my second point for you:

Korn was quoted in the Feb. 27 issue of the Bangkok Post as telling investors that the guilty verdict won't affect them.

For Korn's quote to appear in the Feb. 27 issue of the newspaper, he would have had to have spoken to the reporter the previous day, Feb. 26, the day of the verdict. What's in today's newspaper happened yesterday. I'm sure you realize that.

As he was speaking about a guilty verdict, the verdict had already been delivered.

As the story in the Post (Feb. 27 issue Page 2), including the headline, was about Korn's reaction, if he had been in London receiving the award, either the dateline on the story would have read LONDON, Feb 26, or the reporter would have written somewhere in the story "blah blah blah,'' said Finance Minister Korn Chatikavanij from London where he was receiving the Finance Minister of the Year Award.

As that did not appear in the story, it means he was speaking from Bangkok, as usual.

And if he had been in London receiving the award that day or the day after, there would have been a separate story about it in the Post and the Nation and a picture of it the following day.

There were none. He was in Bangkok.

Ahh.. i got it now.. but P' Lobbie ( btw, welcome back I m happy that my posts pulled you back to TF forums ;-) )

But, P' Lobbie, my post that you quoted I supposed to add OP that Thailand so forturnate have him as gov. service. and I also said while people were terrifying what WHAT WOULD the result come out.. that is mean he received before the Judgement Day (probably the same week) while people are freaking out with the prediction that guru come out and talk about what gonna happen after the verdict.

Anyway, the newspaper I read said he went to London for receive the Award and the (translated to thai) article has been written by à¨Êѹ à«ç»

[English_Bob]

As that did not appear in the story, it means he was speaking from Bangkok, as usual.

And if he had been in London receiving the award that day or the day after, there would have been a separate story about it in the Post and the Nation and a picture of it the following day.

There were none. He was in Bangkok.

I think he was in the Dining Room with the candlestick.

[grezzzy_greer]

As that did not appear in the story, it means he was speaking from Bangkok, as usual.

And if he had been in London receiving the award that day or the day after, there would have been a separate story about it in the Post and the Nation and a picture of it the following day.

There were none. He was in Bangkok.

I think he was in the Dining Room with the candlestick.

No it was the Butler, with the carving knife....

Regarding the Thai's not talking about politics with people other than close friends or people whose political views they know, I suspect that as politics is a contentious subject at the best of times, and knowing how the Thais hate any form of confrontation, I can understand why they avoid it.

I too am saddened that the verdict was not to confiscate all of the ill-gotten-gains, but the courts decision is still at least appropriate, and it is a landmark decision, so thats that.

[LakeGeneve]

I quite enjoyed viewing this banner when it was erected at the PAD stage on the bridge on Ratchadamnoen Nok Ave in Aug 07. Very surprised that someone bid US $50K for it.

Bids flooded in for this poster of fugitive former primeminister Thaksin Shinawatra and his former wife Khunying Potjaman na Pombejra whenit wasputupfor auction on eBay yesterday. The poster wasused as a backdrop on the stage at a People’s Alliance for Democracy rally. Bidding for the poster ended early at 8.31pm yesterday with the price having reached US$58,600 (2.15 million baht).

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/33904/thaksin-didn-t-list-shin-shares

[Admin_2]

I quite enjoyed viewing this banner when it was erected at the PAD stage on the bridge on Ratchadamnoen Nok Ave in Aug 07. Very surprised that someone bid US $50K for it.

Bids flooded in for this poster of fugitive former primeminister Thaksin Shinawatra and his former wife Khunying Potjaman na Pombejra whenit wasputupfor auction on eBay yesterday. The poster wasused as a backdrop on the stage at a People’s Alliance for Democracy rally. Bidding for the poster ended early at 8.31pm yesterday with the price having reached US$58,600 (2.15 million baht).

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/33904/thaksin-didn-t-list-shin-shares

Well...Thaksin did have some extra cash leftover after the court's decision...

Maybe it's now up in their Dubai home's living room!

[grezzzy_greer]

I quite enjoyed viewing this banner when it was erected at the PAD stage on the bridge on Ratchadamnoen Nok Ave in Aug 07. Very surprised that someone bid US $50K for it.

Bids flooded in ................

Well...Thaksin did have some extra cash leftover after the court's decision...

Maybe it's now up in their Dubai home's living room!

"Sinatra" ???

[DANNO]

One thing I notice, sadly, is that when it comes to discussions of Thai politics, Thai people don't like to get involved. See how many Thai Friends are discussing this issue which is of HUGE importance to their country.

If you mean TH people in this site, they are more interest in what had happened at the pool party than what TS deserves.

Now most of TH people sicked of TS's issues, the 'judment day' was the last thing about TS that they would care to know.

add: From now on, Thailand is moving to Post-Thaksin era. be careful, debating about Thaksin would be looked as old-fashioned

Let me split into your conversations here...as I had a similiar reaction to what Dave said above ^^ . I am very ill informed on this whole political controversy, given that is gets only the basic media coverage --if that --over here(USA). I anticipated that when the judgement was made TFers would have alot to say also about whatever the court handed down in its verdict.

But there was very little said on the Forums espically from Thais, this left me wondering....I can understand what you say Kus... tired of the issue or let move forward beyond it. but with all the public uneasiness leading up I still expected more since their were so many prejudgical interests revolving...

As that day past ...I asked (to try and learn something, still)

a TFer (I am not sure she ever posts here)

--Uni grad; mgt job; mid-twenties; a very cleaver woman

?? --how come it was not discussed more??...her summery was that if TS was openly discussed it just quickly put Thais in intense conflict with one another. She illustrated by using herself and her parents as an example-- they were in passionate disagreement on this issue and as a family, they let it go... so they would not be angry with each other.

This subject sounds like forbidden fruit; ya know it's there; don't dare to taste.

Reminds me of back during the War in Viet Nam (in the US)--and the BIG difference in opinion between generations on that War and its continuance.

I am glad it has resurfaced here again,

I will not have to do so much homework on my own

:wink: Oh...and yes! I too am interested in all that occured at the Pool and the Party! :wink: where are (most) of the pics? and do not say Faceb**K) :x

[Bruce551]

But is this mindset wrong? Truth and justice cannot fill empty stomachs. Perhaps, therefore, only the wealthy have the time and inclination to ponder on matters such as justice while the poor, who have to struggle to feed their families, do not have that luxury.

And when the majority is made up of poor people and the majority voice is what counts in a democracy, the resounding answer is seemingly "We don't care."

Having said that, we all know many businessmen and the well-to-do also "don't care". It's easy for anybody to say they want truth and justice, but just how many are prepared to sacrifice something to realise this?

IMHO the investigation of Thaksin & friends have opened up "Pandora's Box" to the "insiders" club of Thai ministries, the Privy Council, Thai military and Gov. owned companies. How many of these "insiders" benefited from

privileged information on Thai Gov. investments.

Khun Korn has has a bird eye view of this massively corrupt system from this perch at the Ministry of Finance. But, he cannot act effectively without support from Thai citizens. Thais need to stand up in meaningful way for Truth & Justice in society to insure that Gov. actions benefit the country and not just Thai elite.

Look what the Bush administration did to the USA in order to benefit the wealthy.