Chatty Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Should I blame the culture? The division that i work for has a farang, he is my friend sometimes... Once he felt really down, he sent me SMS that he felt lonely among Thai colleages.... like a stranger, an alien from out of the space. He felt like that for many years. On the other hands... not many people in the office like to talk to him cuz they think he has opinion in everything... nothing good for him. Plus about communication... they don't wanna speak English. :roll: (My opinion, I work in International company, they should speak English) and Plus they feel that my friend don't want any friends at all. On Monday, while they sent out a lot of reply group mail about the day trip, they are having fun. Then... he just sent the reply, kinda angry that he didn't wanna see the back and forth messages... After that people in the office mad at him but said nothing. When I came back to work I replied him so nicely that he should use the "Delete" options. People in the office came to see me... "Is that too hard for him?, but Som nam na" Actually, I don't wanna hurt anyone feelings... and I think just that word can't hurt his feelings as well... I don't like this kind atmosphere.. how to make them understand each others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinThai Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Should I blame the culture?The division that i work for has a farang, he is my friend sometimes... Once he felt really down, he sent me SMS that he felt lonely among Thai colleages.... like a stranger, an alien from out of the space. He felt like that for many years. On the other hands... not many people in the office like to talk to him cuz they think he has opinion in everything... nothing good for him. Plus about communication... they don't wanna speak English. :roll: (My opinion, I work in International company, they should speak English) and Plus they feel that my friend don't want any friends at all. On Monday, while they sent out a lot of reply group mail about the day trip, they are having fun. Then... he just sent the reply, kinda angry that he didn't wanna see the back and forth messages... After that people in the office mad at him but said nothing. When I came back to work I replied him so nicely that he should use the "Delete" options. People in the office came to see me... "Is that too hard for him?, but Som nam na" Actually, I don't wanna hurt anyone feelings... and I think just that word can't hurt his feelings as well... I don't like this kind atmosphere.. how to make them understand each others? Sorry if he's your friend but he sounds like a ****-head. You've gotta go along to get along............ When I first came here I worked for a Thai/Burmese company on Sathorn..... only "Farang" there and absolutely loved it. Whole new world, daily challenges, culture, friendships etc. Maybe your friend should try a little humility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyboy Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 The thing is BOTH parties must be prepared to bend a little when dealing with each other. It's too easy to say the Farang should do this or the Thai do that. Misunderstandings and cross communication will be rife if both sets of parties do not speak the other's language to a proficient standard. This is where all should be willing to walk that extra step to make a comfortable, friendly working environment... The middle way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I wrote a comment..... then deleted it..... it felt a little too harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAAum Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Communication would help.... two ways indeed people come from different places?different background... can be together peacefully... because of mutual understanding and respect. from what i read.. i can imagine about the story... but, of course, pieces of jigsaw missing... i can perceive Thai colleague get used to talk behind one?s back among the group?but ignore to let the ?target? know? maybe because of good manner, respect, trouble avoidance or whatever. And the ?target? himself would miss something either? I believe? something leads to another? there must be the connection in between?. no one?s fault? rather we have to share the contribution. Simple but difficult :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PMike Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Should I blame the culture?The division that i work for has a farang, he is my friend sometimes... Once he felt really down, he sent me SMS that he felt lonely among Thai colleages.... like a stranger, an alien from out of the space. He felt like that for many years. On the other hands... not many people in the office like to talk to him cuz they think he has opinion in everything... nothing good for him. Plus about communication... they don't wanna speak English. :roll: (My opinion, I work in International company, they should speak English) and Plus they feel that my friend don't want any friends at all. On Monday, while they sent out a lot of reply group mail about the day trip, they are having fun. Then... he just sent the reply, kinda angry that he didn't wanna see the back and forth messages... After that people in the office mad at him but said nothing. When I came back to work I replied him so nicely that he should use the "Delete" options. People in the office came to see me... "Is that too hard for him?, but Som nam na" Actually, I don't wanna hurt anyone feelings... and I think just that word can't hurt his feelings as well... I don't like this kind atmosphere.. how to make them understand each others? The guy sounds like a bitchy whinner and complainer because he is not happy for his own life. Perhaps it is his own fault for failure to understand Thai culture. You cannot make people like each other if they dont want to.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PMike Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Communication would help.... two ways indeedpeople come from different places?different background... can be together peacefully... because of mutual understanding and respect. from what i read.. i can imagine about the story... but, of course, pieces of jigsaw missing... i can perceive Thai colleague get used to talk behind one?s back among the group?but ignore to let the ?target? know? maybe because of good manner, respect, trouble avoidance or whatever. And the ?target? himself would miss something either? I believe? something leads to another? there must be the connection in between?. no one?s fault? rather we have to share the contribution. Simple but difficult :wink: Aum, I agree that it would be ideal to have this thinking process but it is not for all to do. For only a few I am afraid. You are correct that a little give and take and meet in the middle but that would require being out in the open with this issue and that will never happen. This ideal requires clear thinging and an equal balance of power for all. In this case, one worker may be a superior or manager above another and therefore will not acheive a balance of open communication. It is not common in Thailand for a subordinate to address a superior in this fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I wrote a comment..... then deleted it..... it felt a little too harsh. too harsh? i'm not surprise... but I'd love to hear from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigKus Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Should I blame the culture? No, you should not. This 'farang' guy is sound 'self centered' and unfriendly. He deserves those reaction from the colleagues. Anyway, has he ever thought of going back home..?? hu ..hu.. ha ha.. joking ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay7 Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Playground politics. Typical for a Thai office. The farang will have to sacrifice more, try harder to be liked, and be more flexible than everyone else if he wants to fit in / be accepted. Not really fair, but he's the new kid at school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Sounds like he needs to try to fit in with Thai culture a bit more. The first warning is that he has an opinion on everything. That shows that he doesn't have a respectful jai dee attitude to what's going on around him. If he feels left out of Thai conversation he should learn Thai. Even if he learns a little he will find it much easier to get along because Thai people love to help with the language. Also he should realise that Thai people love to contact and communicate with each other, constantly at times. To westerners who are all about productivity this seems like an annoying waste of time, but it's just part of Thai culture. He needs to chill, absorb and understand what's going on around him, and learn some Thai. Otherwise best to just go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Instead of making harsh comments and judgments about a person and a group of people none of us here actually know, why not offer some practical steps both sides could take to heal the rift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PMike Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Should I blame the culture? No, you should not. This 'farang' guy is sound 'self centered' and unfriendly. He deserves those reaction from the colleagues. Anyway, has he ever thought of going back home..?? hu ..hu.. ha ha.. joking ! You should invite him over Kus and teach him a "lesson" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetieBabie Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Is this another "Weird Thai Behavior" thread ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Should I blame the culture?The division that i work for has a farang, he is my friend sometimes... Once he felt really down, he sent me SMS that he felt lonely among Thai colleages.... like a stranger, an alien from out of the space. He felt like that for many years. On the other hands... not many people in the office like to talk to him cuz they think he has opinion in everything... nothing good for him. Plus about communication... they don't wanna speak English. :roll: (My opinion, I work in International company, they should speak English) and Plus they feel that my friend don't want any friends at all. On Monday, while they sent out a lot of reply group mail about the day trip, they are having fun. Then... he just sent the reply, kinda angry that he didn't wanna see the back and forth messages... After that people in the office mad at him but said nothing. When I came back to work I replied him so nicely that he should use the "Delete" options. People in the office came to see me... "Is that too hard for him?, but Som nam na" Actually, I don't wanna hurt anyone feelings... and I think just that word can't hurt his feelings as well... I don't like this kind atmosphere.. how to make them understand each others? i have to admit e-mails were ppl hit "reply to all" drive me f**king nuts also !! but aside from that if he's been in thailand for many years and still feels like he's an alien or stranger mayhe he's in the wrong country ... and i don't mean that as "if u don't like it get out of thailand" remark. sure there r problems living and working in thailand, but u will have problems no matter where u live or work in the world. i've been living and working in asia for 12 years now and despite language and cultural difficulties, after an inital settling in period, i've never felt like an alien or stranger here. sure there's mornings when i wake up thinking "what the f**k am i doing here", but i had many more mornings like that when living in ireland and england !! waking up asking "what the f**k am i doing here is not related to how much alcohol i have consumed .... well not in this post anyway !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I feel sorry for him in a way. Nice to hear two sides of the story, invite him on TF, lets have a Gerry Springer moment, Zeus can be Springer, Dannyboy and Matlock can be the security, (I chose Matlock because of his gammy leg and the slow reaction time so we can see a bit of blood), I'll be the fat chick in the audience shouting out random damning quotes, and Lobs can be the timid white chick that settles it with a whisper like comment about all getting on.... oh sorry Dave, you can be the red neck that shouts something that no one understands about either football (your kind) or beer, yes you have to wear a lumberjack shirt with cut of sleeves and YES you have to grow your mullet back, I know you had one once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigKus Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Should I blame the culture? No, you should not. This 'farang' guy is sound 'self centered' and unfriendly. He deserves those reaction from the colleagues. Anyway, has he ever thought of going back home..?? hu ..hu.. ha ha.. joking ! You should invite him over Kus and teach him a "lesson" No, PMike. I know this guy's 'reputation' quite well (through bCool) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetieBabie Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Should I blame the culture? Does he get more bucks because of his skin color? that might be it. Jealously, Intimidation, Strong personality, Egomaniac, Cultural Differences, Wife/gf not giving any at home etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PMike Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Should I blame the culture? No, you should not. This 'farang' guy is sound 'self centered' and unfriendly. He deserves those reaction from the colleagues. Anyway, has he ever thought of going back home..?? hu ..hu.. ha ha.. joking ! You should invite him over Kus and teach him a "lesson" No, PMike. I know this guy's 'reputation' quite well (through bCool) But maybe he is good at "other" things 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeMarc Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I think in these situations things can get out of hand very quickly and snowball into a situation which will be very difficult to undo. I run a company with all Thai staff and I know how difficult it can be for a farang to 'get along' in this environment. It can be very lonely if done badly. For a start, I think seeing each side as 'Thai' and 'Farang' automatically puts up barriers. As soon as things get out of hand, both sides will then react and bring up and use all sorts of generalizations and assumptions about the other side. Both sides will look for "oh.. all farang are like that" or "all Thai do this". First and foremost we are all 'People' and 'Humans'. The central issue for any relationship between humans is one of trust... or at least the willingness to try to trust each other. This is regardless of any race. For me and my staff, I started with the simple things that would help to build trust between us. I spend quality time with my staff, both as a group and individually. I listen to them and I try hard to understand their point of views and I encourage them to try to be open and express themselves. We have a 'family' lunch together each friday... simple, inexpensive Thai food. Once a month all the staff come to my house for an afternoon bbq and some fun. I know about their families, their issues in life, the kids, and their bfs and gfs. I am not just their boss... but often like their uncle, father and older brother. I never lie to them and I am completely open with them as much as possible. I treat them with respect and I empower and support them to do their best for our company... and they like to see this company as a 'family' in many ways. The central thing in this is 'Jai dee' and to genuinely show and invest good heart to all the staff and be consistent with this. This also applies to criticism and disciplining staff. This should always be done with good heart and in an encouraging way... and never in a fearful, angry or demeaning way. Sanook (fun) is also a very important factor. There is nothing better than having happy laughing people in the office. Sure, it appears that it is wasting time sometimes, but really, having some fun in the office on a regular basis is like injecting some energy into all the staff. A farang boss also needs to recognize that the work ethic here is often different - work and career are NOT always the central thing is staffs lives. All of the above and more are ways a farang can build trust and bonding with staff and this is often quite different from a western way. But the dividends, if done properly, are enormous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drlovelife8 Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I have been a little bit amazed over the years at the amount of time spent having fun in the office here compared to in the UK. Stunned at the amount of MSN chat time. But it's better to say nothing and laugh along with them. Lonely other-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeMarc Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I have been a little bit amazed over the years at the amount of time spent having fun in the office here compared to in the UK. Stunned at the amount of MSN chat time.But it's better to say nothing and laugh along with them. Lonely other-wise. this is true. I would guess that, with all the 'sick' days and holidays etc as well, the average staff member would work approximately 12-15hrs (actual work) a week. To some extent, I build this factor into the company costs and charges. Internally, I find ways to raise that average as much as I can. This isnt easy and is a constant challenge. Its rather like herding cats at times, or at other times like motivating people on valium. I have some 'star' staff who are like gold, but they are so rare in Thailand and I take care of them VERY well. I also use them to try to influence the lazy ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English_Bob Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 My office is all Thai (barring myself and a guy who works away)... the work ethic here is incredible... Everyone is busy all the time. I thought I'd see a bunch of slacking off and MSN chatting like in other places, but it's not like that at all. And in the nightclub, the staff work their knackers off daily too. In fact I feel guilty posting this on TF when I should be doing something else... (Gotta go... boss is here... bye) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 MSN isn't allow here at my office... as some other websites were blocked... don't know why i can log on TF. :roll: Boss is here too... i would come back and reply you guys later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PMike Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I have been a little bit amazed over the years at the amount of time spent having fun in the office here compared to in the UK. Stunned at the amount of MSN chat time.But it's better to say nothing and laugh along with them. Lonely other-wise. this is true. I would guess that, with all the 'sick' days and holidays etc as well, the average staff member would work approximately 12-15hrs (actual work) a week. To some extent, I build this factor into the company costs and charges. Internally, I find ways to raise that average as much as I can. This isnt easy and is a constant challenge. Its rather like herding cats at times, or at other times like motivating people on valium. I have some 'star' staff who are like gold, but they are so rare in Thailand and I take care of them VERY well. I also use them to try to influence the lazy ones. I have worked in several Thai companies. Some were Thai management, some farang, some Japanese. Each had a vastly different style and level of exceptance of outside activities during work time. The Japanese were the lowest level of exceptance including only allowing internet access for a few upper management positions and not for regular staff. No eating at desks, only water or coffee etc. Each day all desks had to be cleaned and only cirtain items allowed on the desk like stapler, papers, keyboard etc. The others were more tolerant but still not as lenient as your example of 15 hours opf productive work each week. i think it would also depend on the work being performed. For example, processing manufacturing lot travelers for a busy manufacturing company would require full work load. These companies require a time clock to come and go and dock pay for late workers. On the other hand, there is a great deal of friendship among the staff and workers but is segregated by class such as management and production works do not mix or date. When I first came here for work many years ago, it was a big learning process to work within the constrains of structure of Thai society. I have enjoyed each and every minute of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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