Farang Assimilation?

[SweetieBabie]

Is assimilated a polite word for calling someone a sell out?

[digitalcat]

yes of course I have the CD, and yes i know about francis ford coppola being apart of the movie. i had to watch it with a grain of salt, the movie is historically inacurate.

Which part was inacurate? Maidai explain please...

when is history accurate?

...

:shock:

[GoodKarma]

Assimilated according to WIKI?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_assimilation

Assimilation happens just as the theory natural selection does. people adapt to blend(fit in) into their surroundings. consciously or subconsciously :roll:

[eagle]

maidai wrote:

For those who live in Thailand. Do Farang want to be assimilated into Thai culture or is this Love for Thai culture just an act?

Loving a culture doesn't mean you want to assimilate into it and you don't have to assimilate to prove you love it. If you feel those needs its your standards not the rest of the worlds.

maidai again;

as a farang could you ever fully assimilate yourself into Thai culture? you can always keep some elements of your native culture, but for the most part forget all that is farang and bath yourself in everything that is Thai?

I think anyone who lives in a culture becomes assimilated given enough time. You don't forget thats ridiculous unless you have Alzheimer's.

America is easy to assimilate into but people are not always accepting here. For that you need to accept yourself and find an intelligent peer group.

[zeusbheld]

....

I think anyone who lives in a culture becomes assimilated given enough time...

i don't agree. i don't think a whitey can ever fully assimilate in a relatively ethnically homogeneous asian country. i don't think anyone not of a similar ethnicity can assimilate in an ethnically homogeneous country.

the US is hetergeneous especially in the cities; people can and do assimilate if and when they want to, at least in heterogeneous communities. Thailand is fairly homogeneous and it looks to me like ethnically Indian people aren't generally accepted as Thai no matter how many generations their family's been here, whether they are Thai citizens, whether they've changed their name, etc.

[eagle]

....

I think anyone who lives in a culture becomes assimilated given enough time...

i don't agree. i don't think a whitey can ever fully assimilate in a relatively ethnically homogeneous asian country. i don't think anyone not of a similar ethnicity can assimilate in an ethnically homogeneous country.

the US is hetergeneous especially in the cities; people can and do assimilate if and when they want to, at least in heterogeneous communities. Thailand is fairly homogeneous and it looks to me like ethnically Indian people aren't generally accepted as Thai no matter how many generations their family's been here, whether they are Thai citizens, whether they've changed their name, etc.

I guess it would depend on a societies willingness to accept the outsider. The homogeneous being the hurdle. Native american tribes have a rep for acceptance of whitey and took in many runaway slaves. Of course some individuals are more acceptable then others no matter what the race difference.

[GoodKarma]

....

I think anyone who lives in a culture becomes assimilated given enough time...

i don't agree. i don't think a whitey can ever fully assimilate in a relatively ethnically homogeneous asian country. i don't think anyone not of a similar ethnicity can assimilate in an ethnically homogeneous country.

the US is hetergeneous especially in the cities; people can and do assimilate if and when they want to, at least in heterogeneous communities. Thailand is fairly homogeneous and it looks to me like ethnically Indian people aren't generally accepted as Thai no matter how many generations their family's been here, whether they are Thai citizens, whether they've changed their name, etc.

you know not to totally disagree with eagle..

but zeus those are some excellent observations..I agree

japan is even a worse scenario..

I once saw a movie on AMC I can't remember the title

with marlon brando..his character a american soldier fell in love with a japanese girl...he caught sheer terror on both sides... no matter what his character did he couldn't be in the graces of the japanese culture it was kind of a b movie but the topic was intense..the movie also had red buttons in it as well. that shows you how old the movie was

sayonara is the name of the flick

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050933/

brando back then probably really pushed the envelope in this one

[Neo]

I think anyone who lives in a culture becomes assimilated given enough time.

You would think so. But I've met guys who've lived here for over 10 years and speak almost no Thai, have no idea what's going on around them, and just complain about Thai people. The only assimilating they've been doing is into the local farang culture. It's sad.

[eagle]

I think anyone who lives in a culture becomes assimilated given enough time.

You would think so. But I've met guys who've lived here for over 10 years and speak almost no Thai, have no idea what's going on around them, and just complain about Thai people. The only assimilating they've been doing is into the local farang culture. It's sad.

Assimilation would have to be of interest. I wouldn't be in a hurry to be Thai just be able to communicate would be nice. I lived on native reservations in the US and some are less accepting then others but all tolerant. Total assimilation would seem improbable if from a completely different culture.

[Crustyjuggler]

I think anyone who lives in a culture becomes assimilated given enough time.

You would think so. But I've met guys who've lived here for over 10 years and speak almost no Thai, have no idea what's going on around them, and just complain about Thai people. The only assimilating they've been doing is into the local farang culture. It's sad.

And Asians have lived in America for generations and will not speak English either. Instead they take over acres of real estate and make a country within a city.

[Neo]

I think anyone who lives in a culture becomes assimilated given enough time.

Assimilation would have to be of interest. ... Total assimilation would seem improbable if from a completely different culture.

goddamit Eagle! How can I shoot you down if you won't stand still?! 8)

[Mister Moobs]

And Asians have lived in America for generations and will not speak English either. Instead they take over acres of real estate and make a country within a city.

But this is one of the things that I actually enjoy about America. Little pockets of different worlds.

Germantown

Chinatown

Little Italy

Some of these places are wonderful.

I think San Diego has the largest Chinatown in the US. If I'm not mistaken, Toronto has the largest in North America.

I don't think it is always necessary to assimilate into the larger culture. As long as those groups don't expect everyone around them to abide by their rules. The Chinese are excellent at this as are the Jews. No Jews out there in America or Chinese for that matter who are expecting everyone else to abide by the Torah or Confucianism or what not.

The people who learn Thai are admirable in my opinion. Those who don't. It's their choice. Their loss really. Especially those who constantly complain about their hosts. There is always the choice to go home.

I've met some guys who are truly part of the culture. A co-worker of a gal I knew a while back was an American who had lived in Thailand for ten years or so. The guy fooled Thai people. When they spoke to him on the phone, they thought they were speaking to a Thai person.

It's a choice. It's not always necessary to assimilate.

Historically, I believe that most of the 1st generations to come to America have been fairly clan-ish. Usually, it's the 2nd and 3rd generations who become fully American.

It's the same with the Mexicans who are moving up into North America now. Many folks back stateside complain that they don't speak English. Well, neither did the Germans and Italians who first came over. It was their children who learned English. There were whole German speaking regiments in the American Civil War.

I think Zeus is right about the ethnic difficulties of being a Caucasian in a predominantly Asian country. You're always going to look different. Your children will look different. Until the next generation. If they marry a Thai. Then they'll start looking Thai again.

[Mister Moobs]

In Saigon, there is a whole American ex-pat community near the business center of town.

These guys are not fully assimilated and many of their children actually go to an "American" school. The Heart of Darkness bar is full of the children of these ex-pats and the Embassy staffs of Britain, Australia and the US among others. I walked in to this joint and felt like I was back in the States for a sec. The folks I talked to in this bar were anywhere from 18 to 30 and they were mostly mixed kids whose fathers came back after the war and stayed on.

One guy who I met in Saigon claimed to have never left.

The men all congregate in bars which are frequented by ex-pats and business men from the West. Many of them spoke Vietnamese but not all.

Some of them complained about SEAsia but most loved it.

Were these guys assimilated or no?

[Bruce551]

Thais have assimilated words and ideas from other cultures and counties. Thais eat American junk food and there's 7/11. Also, Thais like American TV shows "CSI" and movies. Words like maa Farang (gum), American share, and say "hello" when Thais answer the phone. Thais will invite a farangs share in cultural activities, go to the Wat, eat together with a Thai family. Very helpful if the farang speaks some Thai language, helps the farang to understand way Thais think. But, in the end your still a farang and thats OK because most Thais will still like you.

[zeusbheld]

...But, in the end your still a farang and thats OK because most Thais will still like you.

i think that's important to bear in mind. you ARE different, and will stay that way... but... how do i put this... even Thais who kinda hold it against you don't usually really hold it against you....

also, as a farrang maybe you'll never quite assimilate in Thailand but on the other hand you're innately in a position of privilege compared to many Thais.

[Mister Moobs]

...But, in the end your still a farang and thats OK because most Thais will still like you.

i think that's important to bear in mind. you ARE different, and will stay that way.

I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

(not saying that anyone said that there was anything wrong with it)

[maidai]

....

I think anyone who lives in a culture becomes assimilated given enough time...

i don't agree. i don't think a whitey can ever fully assimilate in a relatively ethnically homogeneous asian country. i don't think anyone not of a similar ethnicity can assimilate in an ethnically homogeneous country.

the US is hetergeneous especially in the cities; people can and do assimilate if and when they want to, at least in heterogeneous communities. Thailand is fairly homogeneous and it looks to me like ethnically Indian people aren't generally accepted as Thai no matter how many generations their family's been here, whether they are Thai citizens, whether they've changed their name, etc.

I agree with you, the USA is a actual melting pot, the native ppl are Indian dang, so there is not truly an ethnicity or standard culture one has to follow. White americans are seen as "true" americans, black americans are seen as americans also. then you have asians and latinos' as being apart of america. Even though latina's are the second largest group of ppl in the US, blacks are seen as more american then they are, since blacks dont have a second language, most latina's can speak spanish.

[maidai]

I think anyone who lives in a culture becomes assimilated given enough time.

You would think so. But I've met guys who've lived here for over 10 years and speak almost no Thai, have no idea what's going on around them, and just complain about Thai people. The only assimilating they've been doing is into the local farang culture. It's sad.

I know a lot of 2nd and 3rd generation Thai, Lao, Khmer, and Vietnamese kids, and these kids hang out with mostly other Thai, Lao, Khmer, and vietnamese. They are bright young kids, great students, and can be as american as apple pie. If you ask them what are they, they will tell you they are either Thai, Lao, Khmer, or Vietnamese. Even though they are pretty much fully assimulated into American society, they are very proud of their ethnic backgroud.

That is why American culture is different from that of Thailand, its a different type of society, one that is only 200 years old, and still evolving, while Thai culture has been around for thousands of years. The biggest influence being that of a religous one; buddhism and the incorperation of Mon and Khmer culure over a thousand years. A lot different from America.

[Mister Moobs]

....

I think anyone who lives in a culture becomes assimilated given enough time...

i don't agree. i don't think a whitey can ever fully assimilate in a relatively ethnically homogeneous asian country. i don't think anyone not of a similar ethnicity can assimilate in an ethnically homogeneous country.

the US is hetergeneous especially in the cities; people can and do assimilate if and when they want to, at least in heterogeneous communities. Thailand is fairly homogeneous and it looks to me like ethnically Indian people aren't generally accepted as Thai no matter how many generations their family's been here, whether they are Thai citizens, whether they've changed their name, etc.

I agree with you, the USA is a actual melting pot, the native ppl are Indian dang, so there is not truly an ethnicity or standard culture one has to follow. White americans are seen as "true" americans, black americans are seen as americans also. then you have asians and latinos' as being apart of america. Even though latina's are the second largest group of ppl in the US, blacks are seen as more american then they are, since blacks dont have a second language, most latina's can speak spanish.

I have to disagree on the point of one race being seen as more or less American than another.

That seems to be an outsider looking in viewpoint. I've never thought of black people as being less American than White people. Never thought of Hspanics in that way either.

To my way of thinking, you're American or you are not.

Tourists and immigrants are not Americans. Immigrants become American once they are granted citizenship. It's an individual thing.

In America, it's how you feel about yourself that counts. The actions that you take. America is more than willing to take folks in and allow them to become citizens. It happens daily.

It's one of the easiest places to become a citizen. At least once you get into the country it is. The hard part is gaining entry. Once you are in, it is not so difficult to become a citizen. I know plenty of people who have become naturalized citizens of America. We are a nation of immigrants.

How many people do you know who have become naturalized citizens of Thailand or Vietnam or Cambodia or China. It's damn near impossible.

[maidai]

im a naturalized citizen of America, I know i have the same rights and so on, I also feel no one is more american then I am. that being said, its the perception. When we talk about white ppl in our communities, we refer to them as Kon America, when we refer to black ppl we just say kon dam and sometimes refer to them as kon Americal. when we refer to latina's we call all of them kon Mec, not even american, and asian ppl as kon asian, even though all these groups are American, born in America, or whatever.

Can you see the difference in the name we refer to these ppl. We are american citizens ourselves, but we also know we are Thai. word association is the key to our feeling towards the ppl who live in America. White are seen as just American, black are seen as Black Americans or african americans, latina ppl as Latin Americans, and asians as Asian americans. When was the last time you heard ppl say when they saw a white person and the words "European American" came up? Never, the reference is only white americans, but that is only used when someone is trying to seperate white ppl from other groups.

I know what your trying to say, no one is more american then the other, but there is no doubt you can take these references and make the conclusion i have come to conclude

[eagle]

im a naturalized citizen of America, I know i have the same rights and so on, I also feel no one is more american then I am. that being said, its the perception. When we talk about white ppl in our communities, we refer to them as Kon America, when we refer to black ppl we just say kon dam and sometimes refer to them as kon Americal. when we refer to latina's we call all of them kon Mec, not even american, and asian ppl as kon asian, even though all these groups are American, born in America, or whatever.

Can you see the difference in the name we refer to these ppl. We are american citizens ourselves, but we also know we are Thai. word association is the key to our feeling towards the ppl who live in America. White are seen as just American, black are seen as Black Americans or african americans, latina ppl as Latin Americans, and asians as Asian americans. When was the last time you heard ppl say when they saw a white person and the words "European American" came up? Never, the reference is only white americans, but that is only used when someone is trying to seperate white ppl from other groups.

I know what your trying to say, no one is more american then the other, but there is no doubt you can take these references and make the conclusion i have come to conclude

Not all white americans look at others as less american then them or different as in black american or latin american unless they are from what is called latin america. I can understand your differentiating races as you are a minority. I think thats normal for minorites. I was well aware of being a whiteman on a Native reservation as the indian wars are not so far off and there are a lot of attitudes towards white society. IN school we are taught the way people become americans and I would say a large percent of people accept you as american when you become legally american. Its the turning point. Some people will always be negative and thats just part of life.

[CiaranM]

im a naturalized citizen of America, I know i have the same rights and so on, I also feel no one is more american then I am. that being said, its the perception. When we talk about white ppl in our communities, we refer to them as Kon America, when we refer to black ppl we just say kon dam and sometimes refer to them as kon Americal. when we refer to latina's we call all of them kon Mec, not even american, and asian ppl as kon asian, even though all these groups are American, born in America, or whatever.

Can you see the difference in the name we refer to these ppl. We are american citizens ourselves, but we also know we are Thai. word association is the key to our feeling towards the ppl who live in America. White are seen as just American, black are seen as Black Americans or african americans, latina ppl as Latin Americans, and asians as Asian americans. When was the last time you heard ppl say when they saw a white person and the words "European American" came up? Never, the reference is only white americans, but that is only used when someone is trying to seperate white ppl from other groups.

I know what your trying to say, no one is more american then the other, but there is no doubt you can take these references and make the conclusion i have come to conclude

i would conclude that the above says a lot more about u than it does about white/black/hispanic americans !!!

[GoodKarma]

I will say this maidai

first of all throwing lables on a group or people is not right so I don't want to come off as doing that, thats definitely not me.An American is American and should be American.

but to make a point. if you really want to know how integrated the society that you live in just turn on the TV. watch the commercials. what faces do you see in the ads? do you see someone that looks like yourself? if you are a kid do you see a family like yours? etc. if you watch a commercial in the US you see commercials with all ethnicities. what is my point? commercials always denotes acknowledgment that something exists especially a demi group etc. they represent a society and whats going on in it.

In Thailand when you start to see commercials with Thai and western couples or mixed couples western and Thai person then you know societal norms and acceptance is taking place. things take time this phenomenon didn't happen in the US overnight. I suspect it won't happen in Thailand overnight either. In order for it to happen though you have to have a certain amount of the populous to want it to happen. Im not too sure I see that yet? maybe in the young thai populous to a certain extent?

[digitalcat]

i hate to agree with Maidai, but he has a point.

Ingrained in American culture is the concept of "us and them".

Older immigrant communities look at resentment at the new immigrant communities. Some white Americans look with disdain on other groups even if that group has become part of America. The Urban areas are a bit different, but when you go rural this is much more apparent.

I drove cross US with my AMERICAN born Chinese Gf and I cant tell you how many times we were asked either awkward questions or made feel unwelcome.

"You must be on' of 'em ChiiiNeeeeseeeee" we don get many o' those 'round 'ere"

Even with my Russian family, they always have different reactions to different cultural ethnicity living in America.

Anyway, not saying that every American is a racist bastards... many are educated and refined. But lets not ignore the fact that American media runs on stereotypes and there are plenty of cross cultural resentment. See a spike lee film . LOL

[GoodKarma]

good points digital and well taken

you are right their are parts of the US still stuck in the dark ages I agree. the US is not a perfect melting pot. not to pick on certain places but still parts of Chicago burbs that if you are not white you may think twice about walking around strongly suggested to just be passing through. on the flip side certain black neighborhoods the same scenario. The clint eastwood movie kinda touched on the changing of America in Gran torino check it out if you get a chance.

I enjoy spike lee joint movies. Even though he is over the top sometimes but He does what and artist is supposed to do make you think and create dialogue

clint does the same thing takes not well known topics ones that you may not even know existed and creates a stir.

my point in relation to this topic is that even though US isn't in perfect harmony but it try's very hard more than some parts of the world some altitudes will never completely change.

the media is about making green or money pure and simple thats it. but my point about it was that when or if you see something or someone on TV ads what ever it's acknolegement that it exists etc. or it has come of age something to that effect.