eagle Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Good idea to keep an eye on them .......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorea Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Good idea to keep an eye on them .......... agree and better yet, don't be a part of any kind of corruption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeMarc Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 wow... i would have thought it was a lot higher in Thailand. I always assume that the words "Thai police" were synonymous with "totally corrupt"....or "scum bag" (in fact anyone who works in government here). Par for the course here isnt it? :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeMarc Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Good idea to keep an eye on them .......... agree and better yet, don't be a part of any kind of corruption. err that means dont live in Thailand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelis Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 I think those numbers are corrupted.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toma Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 I think those numbers are corrupted.... Was my first thought too after I read "Transparency International commissioned Prof. Dr J. Graf Lambsdorff", but then I saw "Prof. Dr J.". (Johann and not Otto) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katoom Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 The question one possibly has to ask is what exactly, apart from doing nice little surveys, does the National Anti-Corruption Commission actually do to weed out and prevent this practice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorea Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Not really sure if the National Anti-Corruption Commission can do anything than giving info. It?s all about people and government of each country; I think. Here is a short version of methodology. 1. The CPI gathers data from sources that span the last two years. For the CPI 2008, this includes surveys from 2008 and 2007. 2. The CPI 2008 is calculated using data from 13 sources originated from 11 independent institutions. All sources measure the overall extent of corruption (frequency and/or size of bribes) in the public and political sectors and all sources provide a ranking of countries, i.e., include an assessment of multiple countries. 3. For CPI sources that are surveys, and where multiple years of the same survey are available, data for the last two years are included to provide a smoothing effect. 4. For sources that are scores provided by experts (risk agencies/country analysts), only the most recent iteration of the assessment is included, as these scores are generally peer reviewed and change very little from year to year. 5. Evaluation of the extent of corruption in countries is done by country experts, non resident and residents. In the CPI 2008, this consists of the following sources: Asian Development Bank, African Development Bank, Bertelsmann Transformation Index, Country Policy and Institutional Mssessment, Economist Intelligence Unit, Freedom House, Global Insight and Merchant International Group. Additional sources are resident business leaders evaluating their own country; in the CPI 2008, this consists of the following sources: IMD, Political and Economic Risk Consultancy, and the World Economic Forum. 6. To determine the mean value for a country, standardisation is carried out via a matching percentiles technique. This uses the ranks of countries reported by each individual source. This method is useful for combining sources that have a different distribution. While there is some information loss in this technique, it allows all reported scores to remain within the bounds of the CPI, that is to say, to remain between 0 and 10. 7. A beta-transformation is then performed on scores. This increases the standard deviation among all countries included in the CPI and avoids the process by which the matching percentiles technique results in a smaller standard deviation from year to year. 8. All of the standardised values for a country are then averaged, to determine a country's score. 9. The CPI score and rank are accompanied by the number of sources, high-low range, standard deviation and confidence range for each country. 10. The confidence range is determined by a bootstrap (non-parametric) methodology, which allows inferences to be drawn on the underlying precision of the results. A 90 per cent confidence range is then established, where there is 5 per cent probability that the value is below and 5 per cent probability that the value is above this confidence range. 11. Research shows that the unbiased coverage probability for the confidence range is lower than its nominal value of 90 per cent. The accuracy of the confidence interval estimates increases with a growing number of sources: for three sources, 65.3 per cent; for four sources, 73.6 per cent; for five sources, 78.4 per cent; for six sources, 80.2 percent; and for seven sources, 81.8 per cent. 12. The overall reliability of data is demonstrated in the high correlation between sources. In this regard, Pearson's and Kendall's rank correlations have been performed, which provided average results of .78 and .63 respectively. ............. Apparently Dr. J something didn't do it alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted June 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 The fact that there is an Anti corruption commission shows someone cares it exists. I remember the Kennedys in the US were really down on organized crime but they got shot and that was that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce551 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Thai citizens have very few ways to hold the "Police" accountable for their actions. 270,000 National police, no outsider can control this organization. The police should be answerable to the city Mayor or district governor. That way the Thai people can hold someone accountable for police corruption and abuse of authority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce551 Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 In Phuket, the police Chief has to buy that position for millions of Baht. The bars and restaurants in have to pay the police bribe money, for nice bar at least 10,000 to 20,000 baht a year. The police are involved one way or another in most criminal activities (child sex trade, drugs, gambling) and scams in Thailand. Some bar girls in Phuket work with the police to scam farangs, the bar girl sells ganja to a farang, then the police show up, farang pays 10,000 baht. Chiang Mai is the same, bars and restaurants have to pay the police too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katoom Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Well I am quite amazed at the inaction of the Government and the wholesale acceptance of what seems to be institutionalised corruption. It must be wrong that the police are not answerable to someone, the Chief of Police surely has to be appointed by someone and they are charged with upholding the Law where the CoP is empowered within those Laws. One of the best things the Government could do is begin to pay the Police a decent wage and reform it's whole structure to include a Complaints Against Police Office. Pay peanuts get monkeys and all of that. Overhaul training programs and update equipment, establish an independent commission against corruption and give it powers. Give the Police back to the people. These are the sort of things an election should be fought on but never really are. Ho hum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeMarc Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 its all part of the reality of "The Thai Way" :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submissiv Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Include Pattaya and Bangkok to the same list but the trick with farrang is more difficult to do in Bangkok since the person defrauded can always go higher. Places like Phuket will always have more corruption since they are far away from Bangkok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Well I am quite amazed at the inaction of the Government and the wholesale acceptance of what seems to be institutionalised corruption. The police are supposed to be under the control of the Justice Dept. They simply refuse to be under anyone's control. This corruption perception is missing the point. Most Thais are completely unaware of the hundreds of billions of baht that the government steals from them. But they have direct experience of police corruption, which is why it's the police who are mistakenly labelled as the biggest offenders. There are many government projects every year that are specifically designed to put billions of baht into the pockets of MP's and other government officials. This is why Abhisit is having such a rough time right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 there are a number of inherent problems with this methodological approach:5. my experience of working with thai government and non-governmental agencies IN THAILAND has never revealed any corruption. the officials i have worked with have always been capable, honest professionals That's not been my experience. It seemed to be like that at first but after a few years I started to notice more and more. And quite apart from such subjective evidence :wink: all you need to do is read the news to see what the government is up to. Rice selling back-handers, the buss leasing scam, various airport construction/equipment scams, the list is endless and most of these large scale scams take tens of billions of baht from the tax payer, no questions asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeMarc Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 5. my experience of working with thai government and non-governmental agencies IN THAILAND has never revealed any corruption. the officials i have worked with have always been capable, honest professionals while i dont really doubt your other points, i find this one amazing. Are you saying this whole corruption thing is just an unsubstantiated idea...in your experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeMarc Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 5. my experience of working with thai government and non-governmental agencies IN THAILAND has never revealed any corruption. the officials i have worked with have always been capable, honest professionals while i dont really doubt your other points, i find this one amazing. Are you saying this whole corruption thing is just an unsubstantiated idea...in your experience? no, i am saying that in my experience of the thai officials i have worked with have always been beyond corruption. it may exsist out there, but i haven't experienced it in my dealings. i am sure there is corruption, but to label all public servants and govt officials the same is a cheap shot. fair enough. But i would suggest that it would be the vast majority of them who are either corrupt or turn a blind eye to corruption (unsubstantiated claim).I also suggest that one wouldnt last long or be very successful in any Thai government agencies without playing the 'game' at some point in their career. But i would ask how long you have been in Thailand and working with these folks to reach your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeMarc Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 can i suggest you read my words again? I said vast majority, NOT all. Can you please tell me how long you have been in thailand working with these people in order for you to reach your opinion. Then i can know how 'balanced' we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeMarc Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 can i suggest you read my words again? I said vast majority, NOT all. Can you please tell me how long you have been in thailand working with these people in order for you to reach your opinion. Then i can know how 'balanced' we are. marc - your argument is ridiculous. i rest my case which part is ridiculous? And what 'case' are you resting? I am simply trying to know your length and breadth of experience here to know how you reach your opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeMarc Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 its all part of the reality of "The Thai Way" :roll: instead of trying to unsuccessfully lure me into a pointless debate - why don't you expand on your own intellectual thesis? mate, im not trying to lure you into anything. Im just interested in your opinion and how you reach it, as it would appear to differ from most opinions i personally know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count_Jason Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crustyjuggler Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 its all part of the reality of "The Thai Way" :roll: instead of trying to unsuccessfully lure me into a pointless debate - why don't you expand on your own intellectual thesis? mate, im not trying to lure you into anything. Im just interested in your opinion and how you reach it, as it would appear to differ from most opinions i personally know Sounds like Marc is asking a perfectly reasonable question and the other fella is spittin the dummy instead of some credible arguments against. I also think the majority of civil servants are corrupt or soon will be, it's in the nature of the beast. I also believe people get the governments, law and policing they deserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Sassy Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 no, i am saying that in my experience of the thai officials i have worked with have always been beyond corruption. it may exsist out there, but i haven't experienced it in my dealings. i am sure there is corruption, but to label all public servants and govt officials the same is a cheap shot. Then I must, no doubt, say that you have been EXTREMELY lucky.. that you never have to go thru a so-called 'tea money' process to facilitate your deal(s) in Thailand. Been dealing with the Gov. sector and have to pay that damn tea money at every single step I(we) make. At every single table we pass. Used to hate those that pay to expedite the procedure but if you don't, you'll be kicked out quicker than any competitors. Or if you don't pay, You will be pathetically 'asked' to pay. I LOVE this country but I hate the fact that we have been afflicted by political corruption for decades..cannot weed out "some" big fat arseholes. Not in 2009. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeMarc Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 clearly we operate in different spheres. i repeat - the vast majority of pubic servants are decent, honest professionals. the fact that you pay your tea money doesn't mean that everyone is corrupt. far from it. that is your experience of working with certain govt 'officials', my experience suggests otherwise no, i am saying that in my experience Then I must, no doubt, say that you have been EXTREMELY lucky.. that you never have to go thru a so-called 'tea money' process to facilitate your deal(s) in Thailand. Been dealing with the Gov. sector and have to pay that damn tea money at every single step I(we) make. At every single table we pass. Used to hate those that pay to expedite the procedure but if you don't, you'll be kicked out quicker than any competitors. Or if you don't pay, You will be pathetically 'asked' to pay. I LOVE this country but I hate the fact that we have been afflicted by political corruption for decades..cannot weed out "some" big fat arseholes. Not in 2009. Marty, id suggest youre in a vaccuum, not a different sphere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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