Saying " Sorry "

[Admin_2]

BUMP...

Oops, sry.

[iBatch]

im sorry for hijecked bCool thread..

wait, a minute it will take me at least 24/7 to finish my pology to whole Tfers

[skomaladat]

Hi Dave (aka English_Bob),

Thank you for your PM.

On your question about earlier contacts with foreigners .... No, I did/do not have any Whites or Caucasians bf at anytime in the past/present, though in my capacity, many foreigners (of similar vocation) had been contacting me. But, I received many pervert insinuations from foreigners in their first mail to me, despite their professional disposition!

Yes, I wanted to cease any more remarks last night, and bowed out. I wanted to write a humble apology for my abrupt remarks.

My intention to be in TF [i specially became member of various dating sites (regretted doing so) for the same reason] was to gather information on various problems within the Thai systems (transportation, behaviour, resorts) for and on behalf of the relevant Thai Authorities and the University, and, issue suggestions on various improvements. It had not been my intention to be provocative.

However, matters got out of hand when I noted the insults against the Thai Nationals ... every country has their own problem, open insults is unnecessary.

Dave, please allow me this humble opportunity to extend my hand in humble apology and (possible) friendship.

Best Regards

Sue

[Hazo]

I just spent the last hour or so reading through this thread and I've learned a lot from it.

The only comment that I will make is that I think a lot of these issues can be solved by communicating better. This goes for everyone concerned, not a certain griup.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, I suggest reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie. At least one of those sort of books.

I get the feeling that opinions on the matter aren't that different form one another. Just expressing opinions in a way that doesn't seem confrontational or in an accusing tone.

I think we can all work on this (myself included).

Peace - I love you all

[Neo]

different countries have developed at different paces for a variety of reasons. europe was lucky for lots of reasons (read guns germs and steel for some insight). i think it's a bit unfair to project our values onto a country we r a guest in ... although i'm as guilty as anybody about having a moan from time to time. thailand will advance, grow and develop .... might not happen as fast as we or some thais would want it to happen, but it will !!

and let's be honest about it ... although thailand has it's faults it's not the worst place in the world to be living !!!

We share technical knowledge - left to their own devices, there are plenty of countries who would be without cars, trains, planes, TVs computers and phones.

We share entertainment - movies, music, art.

We share medical expertise - vaccines, cures, cutting edge treatment.

Why not share political advances?

I think Thais who have seen education in action abroad would be the first to say, "I wish our education system was better."

Ditto, roads, railways, army, navy, police, healthcare, welfare, elections, taxation, telecommunications etc

If the government can't deliver (through incompetence, corruption, laziness or unwillingness), would Thai people be able to swallow national pride and accept that the Swiss (or whoever) could do it better....?

It's a nice idea but I don't think anyone would do what they ask unless there's the usual sweetener in it for them. Police, Universities, Schools, Govt Depts, Army, Civil servants etc. The rabbit hole goes pretty deep.

[Admin_2]

I just spent the last hour or so reading through this thread and I've learned a lot from it.

The only comment that I will make is that I think a lot of these issues can be solved by communicating better. This goes for everyone concerned, not a certain griup.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, I suggest reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie. At least one of those sort of books.

I get the feeling that opinions on the matter aren't that different form one another. Just expressing opinions in a way that doesn't seem confrontational or in an accusing tone.

I think we can all work on this (myself included).

Peace - I love you all

Another great book btw...

Just wait til you get here. The cross cultural psychology here is like nothing I've ever seen in the world. Westerners are so different from the Thais, which is one of the reasons I love living here...never a dull moment.

Communication only helps to a point...sometimes communication makes matters worse in Thailand. Thais have this saying "mai pben rai," which I think stems from Buddhism. It means, whatever, nevermind, its ok, fuhgetaboutit...and they live by this.

Sometimes if you want to communicate or dive deeper into a subject with a Thai, you'll get a mai pben rai response asking you to move on and fuhgetaboutit.

[PeeMarc]

Sometimes if you want to communicate or dive deeper into a subject with a Thai, you'll get a mai pben rai response asking you to move on and fuhgetaboutit.

agree. I have rarely been able to get into serious deep thought, philosophy or concepts with any Thai, except with Western educated ones who are well read. Attention span too short and often just not used to juggling concepts in the mind. Westerners can often misunderstand this as stupidity, but its definitely not. I believe it is because of the sad education system here and how Thais are brought up to think from young.

If you want to get intellectual and deep stimulation, do it with a fellow Westerner. For Thais, in general, 'mai pen rai'. But sometimes I wonder if this is a good thing Thais have - not thinking too deeply and just letting things go easily. Sometimes we Westerners over-think things to no end. Sometimes "knowing too much" can lead to seeing and understanding nothing.

[CiaranM]

different countries have developed at different paces for a variety of reasons. europe was lucky for lots of reasons (read guns germs and steel for some insight). i think it's a bit unfair to project our values onto a country we r a guest in ... although i'm as guilty as anybody about having a moan from time to time. thailand will advance, grow and develop .... might not happen as fast as we or some thais would want it to happen, but it will !!

and let's be honest about it ... although thailand has it's faults it's not the worst place in the world to be living !!!

We share technical knowledge - left to their own devices, there are plenty of countries who would be without cars, trains, planes, TVs computers and phones.

We share entertainment - movies, music, art.

We share medical expertise - vaccines, cures, cutting edge treatment.

Why not share political advances?

I think Thais who have seen education in action abroad would be the first to say, "I wish our education system was better."

Ditto, roads, railways, army, navy, police, healthcare, welfare, elections, taxation, telecommunications etc

If the government can't deliver (through incompetence, corruption, laziness or unwillingness), would Thai people be able to swallow national pride and accept that the Swiss (or whoever) could do it better....?

It's a nice idea but I don't think anyone would do what they ask unless there's the usual sweetener in it for them. Police, Universities, Schools, Govt Depts, Army, Civil servants etc. The rabbit hole goes pretty deep.

as somebody has already pointed out we do NOT share these things we sell or trade them !!! and how is thailand going to afford all this expertise ?? when u r comparing how "advanced" thailand is compared to western nations also take a look at the GDP (or is it GNP) per head of population !!

[English_Bob]

Hi Dave (aka English_Bob),

Thank you for your PM.

On your question about earlier contacts with foreigners .... No, I did/do not have any Whites or Caucasians bf at anytime in the past/present, though in my capacity, many foreigners (of similar vocation) had been contacting me. But, I received many pervert insinuations from foreigners in their first mail to me, despite their professional disposition!

Yes, I wanted to cease any more remarks last night, and bowed out. I wanted to write a humble apology for my abrupt remarks.

My intention to be in TF [i specially became member of various dating sites (regretted doing so) for the same reason] was to gather information on various problems within the Thai systems (transportation, behaviour, resorts) for and on behalf of the relevant Thai Authorities and the University, and, issue suggestions on various improvements. It had not been my intention to be provocative.

However, matters got out of hand when I noted the insults against the Thai Nationals ... every country has their own problem, open insults is unnecessary.

Dave, please allow me this humble opportunity to extend my hand in humble apology and (possible) friendship.

Best Regards

Sue

This is exactly the pattern from your previous posts - come online, insult people (white men) and when the heat is on, write an apology.

Did I send you any of the perverted insinuations you received? No... so that makes you... what? Sexist? Racist? Ignorant? Should I assume all Thai people are the same?

Without ever meeting me, talking to any of my friends or anyone who knows me, you felt qualified to call me 'an uneducated bum', 'a bag of ****' and 'Supreme white man'.

And your reason for attacking me was? I have too many ex-girlfriends for your liking? I broke up with them for reasons you disapprove of?

I am confident that if a Thai girl had written she dumped her boyfriends for constant lateness, or for poor manners, you would be cheering her on, "Go girl! You show that white guy who's boss!" You'd be head of the cheerleading squad, commending her for having high standards and not settling for shoddy treatment. Because it was a white guy writing about issues with Thai girls, you felt that was justification enough to insult me personally without any provocation.

Well, please accept MY apology - I'm sorry, but I don't want your apology, nor your friendship.

(Move on people, nothing more to see here...)

[Admin_2]

Iain!! MJ is running low on popcorn and the show is about to start, please help!!

[alan675]

I just spent the last hour or so reading through this thread and I've learned a lot from it.

The only comment that I will make is that I think a lot of these issues can be solved by communicating better. This goes for everyone concerned, not a certain griup.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, I suggest reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie. At least one of those sort of books.

I get the feeling that opinions on the matter aren't that different form one another. Just expressing opinions in a way that doesn't seem confrontational or in an accusing tone.

I think we can all work on this (myself included).

Peace - I love you all

Another great book btw...

Toby Young's "How To Lose Friends And Alienate People" is also a must read

:wink:

[bigKus]

Dear Sue,

Normally, Dave (aka E_ is not heartless response like this, especially toward girls. I think he might has been busy at work, tired or moody with things which didnt come to its way. If i were you, I would not give up. ( I heard he is open for the first move too )

Cheers & Support,

K

[PeeMarc]

Dear Sue,

Normally, Dave (aka E_ is not heartless response like this, especially toward girls. I think he might has been busy at work, tired or moody with things which didnt come to its way. If i were you, I would not give up. ( I heard he is open for the first move too )

Cheers & Support,

K

"Birds of a feather flock together."

[English_Bob]

as somebody has already pointed out we do NOT share these things we sell or trade them !!! and how is thailand going to afford all this expertise ?? when u r comparing how "advanced" thailand is compared to western nations also take a look at the GDP (or is it GNP) per head of population !!

I think the point has been missed - it's a long time since I wrote the question.

I asked a hypothetical, "How would Thais feel about employing a group of foreign experts to run the country for 5 years?"

The reason was simply because Thai politics can't progress because of the back-biting, rivalry and old allegiances that have plagued the country for decades.

If Thailand contracted a trouble-shooting team to come in and sort out infrastructure, democracy and education, wouldn't that be more cost effective than year after year of political upheaval?

Or would it just be too distasteful for Thai people to accept that they need help from outside?

[SoBeIt]

The rabbit hole goes pretty deep.

It means fasten your seat belt Dorothy, 'cause Kansas is going bye-bye!

[DANNO]

Iain!! MJ is running low on popcorn and the show is about to start, please help!!

Huummm ...wasn't this dog just lying asleep ...until someone BUMPed it?

---a puppeteer --- in our lot

[Stramash]

Iain!! MJ is running low on popcorn and the show is about to start, please help!!

if the popcorn runs out, sure MJ can find something else...

:twisted:

[KingLing]

Hi Dave (aka English_Bob),

Thank you for your PM.

On your question about earlier contacts with foreigners .... No, I did/do not have any Whites or Caucasians bf at anytime in the past/present, though in my capacity, many foreigners (of similar vocation) had been contacting me. But, I received many pervert insinuations from foreigners in their first mail to me, despite their professional disposition!

Yes, I wanted to cease any more remarks last night, and bowed out. I wanted to write a humble apology for my abrupt remarks.

My intention to be in TF [i specially became member of various dating sites (regretted doing so) for the same reason] was to gather information on various problems within the Thai systems (transportation, behaviour, resorts) for and on behalf of the relevant Thai Authorities and the University, and, issue suggestions on various improvements. It had not been my intention to be provocative.

However, matters got out of hand when I noted the insults against the Thai Nationals ... every country has their own problem, open insults is unnecessary.

Dave, please allow me this humble opportunity to extend my hand in humble apology and (possible) friendship.

Best Regards

Sue

This is exactly the pattern from your previous posts - come online, insult people (white men) and when the heat is on, write an apology.

Did I send you any of the perverted insinuations you received? No... so that makes you... what? Sexist? Racist? Ignorant? Should I assume all Thai people are the same?

Without ever meeting me, talking to any of my friends or anyone who knows me, you felt qualified to call me 'an uneducated bum', 'a bag of sh*t' and 'Supreme white man'.

And your reason for attacking me was? I have too many ex-girlfriends for your liking? I broke up with them for reasons you disapprove of?

I am confident that if a Thai girl had written she dumped her boyfriends for constant lateness, or for poor manners, you would be cheering her on, "Go girl! You show that white guy who's boss!" You'd be head of the cheerleading squad, commending her for having high standards and not settling for shoddy treatment. Because it was a white guy writing about issues with Thai girls, you felt that was justification enough to insult me personally without any provocation.

Well, please accept MY apology - I'm sorry, but I don't want your apology, nor your friendship.

(Move on people, nothing more to see here...)

I commended on Nong Neung's Travel Alone forum about my length of travel experience of over 30 years touching down on 3/4's of the world. The other 1/4 of the world not traveled I have no interest in.

The 3/4s of the world that I did visit plus my growing up in NYC during the discrimination era of the 60's has taught me much about people.

That education and accepting everyone as who they are is the key to unification of minds.

Sue has no idea of who we are before coming out and showing us her true colors of hatred of others.

If she would have just been more educated and accepting of people of all races then she would not have to be sorry for what she has commented.

Unlike Dave I will accept her apology because everyone do deserve another chance.

After all, Sue didn't lie, steal or kill anyone. She is just being Sue.

Get the popcorn out Iain !!!!!

The Show is about to start soon

[PeeMarc]

I commended on Nong Neung's Travel Alone forum about my length of travel experience of over 30 years touching down on 3/4's of the world. The other 1/4 of the world not traveled I have no interest in.

The 3/4s of the world that I did visit plus my growing up in NYC during the discrimination era of the 60's has taught me much about people.

That education and accepting everyone as who they are is the key to unification of minds.

Sue has no idea of who we are before coming out and showing us her true colors of hatred of others.

If she would have just been more educated and accepting of people of all races then she would not have to be sorry for what she has commented.

Unlike Dave I will accept her apology because everyone do deserve another chance.

After all, Sue didn't lie, steal or kill anyone. She is just being Sue.

One of your best posts King.

[KingLing]

I commended on Nong Neung's Travel Alone forum about my length of travel experience of over 30 years touching down on 3/4's of the world. The other 1/4 of the world not traveled I have no interest in.

The 3/4s of the world that I did visit plus my growing up in NYC during the discrimination era of the 60's has taught me much about people.

That education and accepting everyone as who they are is the key to unification of minds.

Sue has no idea of who we are before coming out and showing us her true colors of hatred of others.

If she would have just been more educated and accepting of people of all races then she would not have to be sorry for what she has commented.

Unlike Dave I will accept her apology because everyone do deserve another chance.

After all, Sue didn't lie, steal or kill anyone. She is just being Sue.

One of your best posts King.

Passing the Bowl to you now P'Marc

[bigKus]

P' Kling,

Even though I want Sue to stay and give comments more in the forum, but I dont think insult people without knowing them is a right thing to do.

Allow me to tell a story of an event happened to me last night, while I & Oh (imback) sitting (eat and drink too ) at the Lobby of Oh's office building in Soi Suk 13. There has a guy ( he told later that he is from Nigeria ) walked pass us heading to toilet and asked ' Is toilet over there? ' Oh answered 'Yes'

In a short while he came out and walked toward us said 'Thank you, what is your name ?' I told him my name and Oh's name and asked What is his name and where is his from. He said " I come from Nigeria, you know Nigeria ? " I said, yes, I know. He said " Na... YOU HEARD BUT YOU DONT KNOW !" Then he continued " Nigeria is close to Cuba, you know Cuba ? If you look at mab, mab, you know mab ? If USA is here, Cuba will be here and Nigeria will be here. At the moment, i know that i cant enjoy this such a conversation. If you think we are so stupid, JUST DONT WASTE TIME WITH US PLEASE !

Instead, i m a person who concern about insulting talk with him as he is black. The (boring) conversation went on like.. "how can we keep in touch?" " Oh I just want to make friends" "When people travelling they make friends, you know?" " Have you been travelled ?"

What would you do if you were us, P' Kling ? Make him as new friend ?

[KingLing]

P' Kling,

Even though I want Sue to stay and give comments more in the forum, but I dont think insult people without knowing them is a right thing to do.

Allow me to tell a story of an event happened to me last night, while I & Oh (imback) sitting (eat and drink too ) at the Lobby of Oh's office building in Soi Suk 13. There has a guy ( he told later that he is from Nigeria ) walked pass us heading to toilet and asked ' Is toilet over there? ' Oh answered 'Yes'

In a short while he came out and walked toward us said 'Thank you, what is your name ?' I told him my name and Oh's name and asked What is his name and where is his from. He said " I come from Nigeria, you know Nigeria ? " I said, yes, I know. He said " Na... YOU HEARD BUT YOU DONT KNOW !" Then he continued " Nigeria is close to Cuba, you know Cuba ? If you look at mab, mab, you know mab ? If USA is here, Cuba will be here and Nigeria will be here. At the moment, i know that i cant enjoy this such a conversation. If you think we are so stupid, JUST DONT WASTE TIME WITH US PLEASE !

Instead, i m a person who concern about insulting talk with him as he is black. The (boring) conversation went on like.. "how can we keep in touch?" " Oh I just want to make friends" "When people travelling they make friends, you know?" " Have you been travelled ?"

What would you do if you were us, P' Kling ? Make him as new friend ?

Nong Kus:

The man that you encountered yesterday is a good example of what I was trying to say.

The man being that he is from Niigeria has his own ways of presenting himself to people of other cultures. His lack of education in accepting people is what separates him and people like you and Oh.

I am not saying that you should be friends with him but rather look at it in another light of view.

You should just present yourself as who you are; The well educated person of understanding the situation at hand and understanding that this man from Nigeria is just not as experience in knowing how to engage another person from another country.

Just accept him as he is and move on.

Why let someone like him spoil the nice atmosphere that you and Oh were having

P'Marc ..................... Pass the Bowl back

[PeeMarc]

P' Kling,

Even though I want Sue to stay and give comments more in the forum, but I dont think insult people without knowing them is a right thing to do.

Allow me to tell a story of an event happened to me last night, while I & Oh (imback) sitting (eat and drink too ) at the Lobby of Oh's office building in Soi Suk 13. There has a guy ( he told later that he is from Nigeria ) walked pass us heading to toilet and asked ' Is toilet over there? ' Oh answered 'Yes'

In a short while he came out and walked toward us said 'Thank you, what is your name ?' I told him my name and Oh's name and asked What is his name and where is his from. He said " I come from Nigeria, you know Nigeria ? " I said, yes, I know. He said " Na... YOU HEARD BUT YOU DONT KNOW !" Then he continued " Nigeria is close to Cuba, you know Cuba ? If you look at mab, mab, you know mab ? If USA is here, Cuba will be here and Nigeria will be here. At the moment, i know that i cant enjoy this such a conversation. If you think we are so stupid, JUST DONT WASTE TIME WITH US PLEASE !

Instead, i m a person who concern about insulting talk with him as he is black. The (boring) conversation went on like.. "how can we keep in touch?" " Oh I just want to make friends" "When people travelling they make friends, you know?" " Have you been travelled ?"

What would you do if you were us, P' Kling ? Make him as new friend ?

I don't think I would be offended by someone like this. If I was sitting at that table, listening to this guy, I would just feel sad for him and probably ask him why he feels the need to... A. Talk such rubbish, making himself look foolish... and B. act like he thinks we are idiots when we are not.

There are ignorant people all over the world. When traveling, one sees them everywhere, if one wants to see. I think its better to either ignore them, or help them in some small way, rather than lower ones self to their level.

[DANNO]

P' Kling,

Even though I want Sue to stay and give comments more in the forum, but I dont think insult people without knowing them is a right thing to do.

Allow me to tell a story of an event happened to me last night, while I & Oh (imback) sitting (eat and drink too ) at the Lobby of Oh's office building in Soi Suk 13. There has a guy ( he told later that he is from Nigeria ) walked pass us heading to toilet and asked ' Is toilet over there? ' Oh answered 'Yes'

In a short while he came out and walked toward us said 'Thank you, what is your name ?' I told him my name and Oh's name and asked What is his name and where is his from. He said " I come from Nigeria, you know Nigeria ? " I said, yes, I know. He said " Na... YOU HEARD BUT YOU DONT KNOW !" Then he continued " Nigeria is close to Cuba, you know Cuba ? If you look at mab, mab, you know mab ? If USA is here, Cuba will be here and Nigeria will be here. At the moment, i know that i cant enjoy this such a conversation. If you think we are so stupid, JUST DONT WASTE TIME WITH US PLEASE !

Instead, i m a person who concern about insulting talk with him as he is black. The (boring) conversation went on like.. "how can we keep in touch?" " Oh I just want to make friends" "When people travelling they make friends, you know?" " Have you been travelled ?"

What would you do if you were us, P' Kling ? Make him as new friend ?

I would say ...'if you want to be friends then you should recognise that I might know where Nigeria and Cuba are in the world, which I do! ...so why are you think so little of my knowledge? "

head up ...move on...

OH, OH, ...."sorry"