Bangkok Mar 12-14

[allseasonsman]

I can honestly say i have been completely unaffected this whole week. My internet never cut, HBO still running strong and no problems for Sammy Somchai, my KFC delivery boy.

Pfffft... Redshirts smedshirts....

Indeed!

I suppose at least that is something that could NOT be said about the Yellow shirts who were allowed to close an International airport!

[Chatty]

I am losing patience with this countries politics.

so join the protesters tomorrow? They will come to Ratchada... I don't think they will visit my place... and at that time I might be in my hip hop class, no need to think about politics.

[bigKus]

I am losing patience with this countries politics.

Happy to hear that ! Where are you from, Mr. lowlife ?

[English_Bob]

I didn't see hordes of supporters cheering on the Red Shirts...

I saw 100,000 people demonstrating... 10% of the numbers threatened.

I saw 100,000 people dwarfed by a city of 12,000,000.

I saw them take their pay and return home as soon as possible.

I watched them pouring blood on the streets.

I heard their leaders calling for bags of excrement to be thrown at public buildings.

While I have some sympathy for Thailand's poor, they have aligned themselves with a group of fanatical and ineffective leaders... A morally bankrupt billionaire, a hawkish terrorist, a communist wannabe and a fake Bramin. Not to mention the corrupt and dishonest Pheu Thai politicians.

What Thailand's poor need is a hero.... a respectable, local Isaan boy. Born into poverty who has struggled with adversity.

They need someone they can believe in who will take their grievances to Bangkok to be addressed in a mature, sensible manner. Someone who has no record of dishonesty and foolishness.

Until they shed the likes of Thaksin, Seh Daeng, Arisman, Suporn, Surachai and Jakrapob they will never be able to taken seriously.

('febrile Bangkok media'? Hardly. These reporters were present last year when Red Shirts drove gas tanks into the street and threatened to set fire to them - the prospect of violence was very real and Abhisit's handling of these protests has been exemplary - I shudder to think what Thaksin's revenge would have been had PAD thrown blood and excrement on his private residence.)

[allseasonsman]

Far too much "I" in your post to be anything like objective or informed.

Some of your other points have some validity but again your focus is far too narrow and you just dont seem able to see the wood from the trees.

As always, we're asked to believe that The Economist (Times/Guardian/NY Times/WSJ/Reuters/AP/BBC/CNN etc etc) are all duped/bought off by Thaksin - anytime any of them produces any coverage that does not slavishly toe the anti-"red"/pro-government line in the way that 90% of Thai media does.

Jaw-droppingly naive? Yes - but that's the flavour of much of what one sees in Thailand these days.

I recommend readers to look at a frank and disturbing view of the growing polarisation of Thai media here: http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/1677

PS Abshit is on CNN right now and making a fool of himself.

[allseasonsman]

Just agree to have an election and let the chips fall were they may?

Majority rule might produce results we don't like but the act of having an Election would bring credit to Abshit and take away a huge area of unhappiness.

He might even be able to convert some people if he acted in a true democratic fashion. be his own man and not the puppet that he currently is.

Certainly the international media and audience would be impressed by such a move.

just

[bigKus]

Just agree to have an election and let the chips fall were they may?

Majority rule might produce results we don't like but the act of having an Election would bring credit to Abshit and take away a huge area of unhappiness.

He might even be able to convert some people if he acted in a true democratic fashion. be his own man and not the puppet that he currently is.

Certainly the international media and audience would be impressed by such a move.

just

But im not impress, .. who care what international media says

If they want new election why dont just wait for only 2 years.

The economy is recoverying, many projects are on progress which makes good effects with everybody including non-thai people.

[English_Bob]

Far too much "I" in your post to be anything like objective or informed.

Some of your other points have some validity but again your focus is far too narrow and you just dont seem able to see the wood from the trees.

Wait... what is your point? That my eye-witness opinion is less valid than your media driven reports?

First hand experience of living and visiting a site is worth less than reading someone else's report?

You read something and are more knowledgeable than people who have been there?

Is that what you are saying? REALLY?

Your point is that you know more than everyone else because... well, why? Please explain to me why you feel qualified to belittle my opinions. You always say that I don't 'see the big picture' and you say I 'am unable to see the wood from the trees' (which is attacking the messenger - as you are constantly complaining about).

The Western media you mentioned certainly does not lie in the red camp. Most of the stuff written about Thaksin covers the corruption and human rights' abuses. Its coverage of the protests emphasises that this demonstration has been peaceful, largely down to the softly softly approach of the government and military.

Your figure of 90% of the Thai media being anti-Thaksin.... where did that statistic come from? I mean, bearing in mind you can't read Thai and can't watch Thai TV or listen to Thai radio or log onto Thai websites.... how do you come to the conclusion that 90% of the media is biased against Thaksin?

So, in short, 2 questions... ( and if you don't answer these properly, I will write you off as a troll)

1) Why do you consider yourself to be an expert?

2) What Thai media do you have access to?

[English_Bob]

lol... That's it?

Pravit Rojanaphruk is your source?

OK... I'm finished with you.

[English_Bob]

From Pratchatai founder...

Social activist and former Senator Jon Ungpakorn says that the Prachatai website was created when Thaksin was Prime Minister, because the Thaksin administration, though elected, consistently interfered in and kept control of the media. Prachatai reported on the insurgency in the southern border provinces to let the public know that the violence came not only from the insurgents, but also from the state under the Thaksin government.

[DANNO]

I can honestly say i have been completely unaffected this whole week. My internet never cut, HBO still running strong and no problems for Sammy Somchai, my KFC delivery boy.

Pfffft... Redshirts smedshirts....

Indeed!

I suppose at least that is something that could NOT be said about the Yellow shirts who were allowed to close an International airport!

And therefore is your conclusion that in 2010 the Yellow shirts would againl be "allowed" to close the airport again ( or Maybe another public "chokepoint")?

[Bruce551]

The level of disdain and bias among the educated middle-class and the elite, mostly in Bangkok, is appalling. They're not just ignorant about the plight of the poor, but are indifferent to it.

In fact, they failed to realise the red shirts managed to shut down a good part of downtown Sukhumvit despite the mainstream media predicting the protesters had already lost the battle.

The level of real contact between the middle-class and the elite with the poor is mostly superficial and confined to relationships where the latter are servants and subordinates.

The middle-class and elite feel that they are entitled to being superior and that the poor should know their place in life.

Therefore, when the poor continue supporting Thaksin, many of the well-off folk in Bangkok have no problems supporting a military coup.

Nevertheless, nothing is as incoherent as the belief that only the educated middle-class and the elite are qualified to run this country.

One must consider how backward Thailand remains politically and economically when compared to countries like South Korea to appreciate what a "marvellous job" the elite and the middle class have been doing for the Kingdom.

If the upper echelons of society have been screwing-up Thailand for the past many decades, might it not be fair for the poor to now say: "Enough is enough", and seek a chance to run or ruin this country too?

Source:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/03/18/politics/Rally-symbolic-of-a-brewing-class-struggle-30124949.html

[Chatty]

OK Nattawut Saikue update their route at 2 am. today...

For your plan in case you wanna go out.

Their rally like a circle...

Paanpha, Yommarat, Petchaburi, Asoke, Ratchada, Ladroa, The Mall Bangkapi, Lamsaree, Ramkhamhaeng, Sukhumvit 71

Rama 4, Kluaynamthai, Rama 3, over the BKK bridge to Thapra, The mall Thapra, turn right to Wongwien Yai.

Cross Sathorn Bridge, turn left to Silom, Sala Daeng, Turn left to Rama 4 to Hualamphong, Yaowarat (China town) Klong tom, Worachak, Lanluang, then back to Paanpha.

They wanna make their rally be the longest one in the world.... put on the record then.

I think if it's not important to go out, just stay at home watch TV. if you have to go out use BTS or MRT service, I will do so. Don't drive, cuz you might stuck in traffice nightmare. lol

If you have to drive make sure you go to toilet already and stock some food in car. Bring plastic bags just in case. And ohh good music in car can make you get thru it without stress.... That's from my previous experience. (it wasn't from any protest)

I'm sure Bangkokians can handle bad traffic very well.

[Bruce551]

From the same artical posted above..

An SMS from the ever-reliable, pro-establishment news agency INN, that this writer subscribes to, warned yesterday that Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban is concerned about this talk of a "class war".

Sure, they talk fondly about Thaksin and demand that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva step down, but many of their songs, grievances and angst is about class inequality as well as socio-economic and political disparity.

The sense of injustice and inequality in Thai politics and society is real and has struck a chord with many in the Bangkok working and lower middle-class, who warmly welcomed the red shirts yesterday on Sukhumvit Road.

What to do about it. Reform of Gov. Departments, the Police, Land, Forestry and pay more attention to the King's Sufficiency economics for the rural farmers.

Conduct a Tambon by Tambon survey of kinds problems rural Thais are facing in their daily life, i.e., police harassment, loan sharks, rice middlemen, land,forestry and health issues. Start dealing with the real problems that effect rural people.

[bigKus]

OK Nattawut Saikue update their route at 2 am. today...

For your plan in case you wanna go out.

Their rally like a circle...

Paanpha, Yommarat, Petchaburi, Asoke, Ratchada, Ladroa, The Mall Bangkapi, Lamsaree, Ramkhamhaeng, Sukhumvit 71

Rama 4, Kluaynamthai, Rama 3, over the BKK bridge to Thapra, The mall Thapra, turn right to Wongwien Yai.

Cross Sathorn Bridge, turn left to Silom, Sala Daeng, Turn left to Rama 4 to Hualamphong, Yaowarat (China town) Klong tom, Worachak, Lanluang, then back to Paanpha.

They wanna make their rally be the longest one in the world.... put on the record then.

I think if it's not important to go out, just stay at home watch TV. if you have to go out use BTS or MRT service, I will do so. Don't drive, cuz you might stuck in traffice nightmare. lol

If you have to drive make sure you go to toilet already and stock some food in car. Bring plastic bags just in case. And ohh good music in car can make you get thru it without stress.... That's from my previous experience. (it wasn't from any protest)

I'm sure Bangkokians can handle bad traffic very well.

informative info. Nong 1 thanks !

Do you know what time they will passing Ladprao ?

I will avoid Ladprao, Ratchada by taking Express Way. dee mai ?

[Chatty]

Not sure what time they will arrive our area... I knew they have prepared since 7 am. but you know they always work late.

I agree if you take the expressway.

[bigKus]

From the same artical posted above..

An SMS from the ever-reliable, pro-establishment news agency INN, that this writer subscribes to, warned yesterday that Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban is concerned about this talk of a "class war".

Sure, they talk fondly about Thaksin and demand that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva step down, but many of their songs, grievances and angst is about class inequality as well as socio-economic and political disparity.

The sense of injustice and inequality in Thai politics and society is real and has struck a chord with many in the Bangkok working and lower middle-class, who warmly welcomed the red shirts yesterday on Sukhumvit Road.

What to do about it. Reform of Gov. Departments, the Police, Land, Forestry and pay more attention to the King's Sufficiency economics for the rural farmers.

Conduct a Tambon by Tambon survey of kinds problems rural Thais are facing in their daily life, i.e., police harassment, loan sharks, rice middlemen, land,forestry and health issues. Start dealing with the real problems that effect rural people.

P' Bruce, "class war" is bullshit stupid excuse ! Labour/Farmers class populatioin in Thailand is less than (i dont know what word define in Eng) people who work in industrial firms and earn themself monthly/weekly.

Thaksin crews may need to study more.

[beej]

Phetburi is proper f**ked, the muppet show is in full swing!

As for a class war, creating this rift makes me want to vomit.

One of the worlds richest people (rich because of money stolen from the people he was in charge of looking after) is telling the poor, that the rich don't care about them.

Its so ironic it makes you want to die.

[Loburt]

From the same artical posted above..

An SMS from the ever-reliable, pro-establishment news agency INN, that this writer subscribes to, warned yesterday that Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban is concerned about this talk of a "class war".

Sure, they talk fondly about Thaksin and demand that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva step down, but many of their songs, grievances and angst is about class inequality as well as socio-economic and political disparity.

The sense of injustice and inequality in Thai politics and society is real and has struck a chord with many in the Bangkok working and lower middle-class, who warmly welcomed the red shirts yesterday on Sukhumvit Road.

What to do about it. Reform of Gov. Departments, the Police, Land, Forestry and pay more attention to the King's Sufficiency economics for the rural farmers.

Conduct a Tambon by Tambon survey of kinds problems rural Thais are facing in their daily life, i.e., police harassment, loan sharks, rice middlemen, land,forestry and health issues. Start dealing with the real problems that effect rural people.

P' Bruce, "class war" is bullshit stupid excuse ! Labour/Farmers class populatioin in Thailand is less than (i dont know what word define in Eng) people who work in industrial firms and earn themself monthly/weekly.

Thaksin crews may need to study more.

I don't think it matters whether the farmers or lower classes are a majority or not. The Yellow Shirts were not a majority, but there could be no peace unless their grievances were addressed. The same is true for Reds, the rural poor and the lower classes. That's not to say all the demands of either side have to be met, as some are not realistic or reasonable. But some are, and it is not against the interests of the nation as a whole to address them.

On the other hand, Pravit loves to blame this on the Bangkok middle class. I find that ludicrous, no matter the distasteful attitude of some in the Bangkok middle class towards "ban nok."

If the Reds are unhappy with the status quo, well, once again, for the past 15-20 years parliament has been dominated by parties whose representatives are from the northeast and the north. Those representatives are often wealthy members of the provincial elite. I don't see that they have done much to change the status quo or solve inequality.

And that includes Jatuporn, Nattawut and their like, who I believe are more interested in building their powerbases and wealth in parliament than anything else.

If the rural poor need land - and they do - then who are the big landowners out in the countryside? The Bangkok middle class? Nope. The Bangkok elite? They own some for sure. But I think you will find those representatives from Isan etc are among those big landowners.

The problems of the poor and disparities in society need to be addressed. But the rhetoric used by some Red leaders is disturbing and only adds to the divisiveness, hardening positions. The rhetoric of the wise and noble peasant who can do no wrong versus the evil selfish urban elite is almost Maoist.

Pravit indicts the ruling class and the Bangkok middle class for the state of Thailand, claiming Thailand could have been as advanced as South Korea by now if not for them.

Maybe, but I doubt it. But Thailand could also have turned out more like Burma, Cambodia or Laos.

If you look at it from that yardstick, which is probably more appropriate as those are Thailand's immediate neighbors and so are a lot more similar in many ways, they haven't done that badly.

Which isn't to say they couldn't have done a lot better or should do a lot better.

[CiaranM]

I don't think it matters whether the farmers or lower classes are a majority or not. The Yellow Shirts were not a majority, but there could be no peace unless their grievances were addressed. The same is true for Reds, the rural poor and the lower classes. That's not to say all the demands of either side have to be met, as some are not realistic or reasonable. But some are, and it is not against the interests of the nation as a whole to address them.

On the other hand, Pravit loves to blame this on the Bangkok middle class. I find that ludicrous, no matter the distasteful attitude of some in the Bangkok middle class towards "ban nok."

If the Reds are unhappy with the status quo, well, once again, for the past 15-20 years parliament has been dominated by parties whose representatives are from the northeast and the north. Those representatives are often wealthy members of the provincial elite. I don't see that they have done much to change the status quo or solve inequality.

And that includes Jatuporn, Nattawut and their like, who I believe are more interested in building their powerbases and wealth in parliament than anything else.

If the rural poor need land - and they do - then who are the big landowners out in the countryside? The Bangkok middle class? Nope. The Bangkok elite? They own some for sure. But I think you will find those representatives from Isan etc are among those big landowners.

The problems of the poor and disparities in society need to be addressed. But the rhetoric used by some Red leaders is disturbing and only adds to the divisiveness, hardening positions. The rhetoric of the wise and noble peasant who can do no wrong versus the evil selfish urban elite is almost Maoist.

Pravit indicts the ruling class and the Bangkok middle class for the state of Thailand, claiming Thailand could have been as advanced as South Korea by now if not for them.

Maybe, but I doubt it. But Thailand could also have turned out more like Burma, Cambodia or Laos.

If you look at it from that yardstick, which is probably more appropriate as those are Thailand's immediate neighbors and so are a lot more similar in many ways, they haven't done that badly.

Which isn't to say they couldn't have done a lot better or should do a lot better.

good call Loburt .... amazing that the poorest ppl in thailand r fighting for the richest !!

but i guess that's always been the way and not just in thailand !!!

[beej]

If they had spent all the money wasted over the past 3 years on a solid election plan + some bribes, they'd be back in power legitimately.

Deal done.

[PiAnt]

The mood of the vast majority of the "mob" is as far from "angry" as it's possible to get.

They're happy because someone, anyone, is bringing their voice to the fore.

As usual, however, their grievances have been used to manipulate them; coerce them into showing apparent support for someone who pretends to be standing up for them, but who, in fact, has his own agenda.

Unfortunately, the media seems to be concentrating on the very few hardcore T. lackies who are causing trouble merely to embarrass the PM, who has handled the situation with admirable restraint.

[Chatty]

just got back from my hip hop class.. Pls don't come to Ratchada, I stuck in traffic about 1 hr. in the middle of Red shirt, it seems ok, I felt like Songkran but no water. You know ppl, trucks, and motorbikes.

Report by Neung,

[LakeGeneve]

just got back from my hip hop class.. Pls don't come to Ratchada, I stuck in traffic about 1 hr. in the middle of Red shirt, it seems ok, I felt like Songkran but no water. You know ppl, trucks, and motorbikes.

Report by Neung,

Thanks for the on the spot update Khun Neung.

Don't be surprised if Mr allseasons in Dublin tells you that your report is incorrect as only he knows the true state of affairs. :roll:

I assume the MRT is still running without any probs?

PS. You, AAA and Kus may want to check out Dream Hotel next Friday and there is some Bellydancing extravaganza taking place.

[Chatty]

just got back from my hip hop class.. Pls don't come to Ratchada, I stuck in traffic about 1 hr. in the middle of Red shirt, it seems ok, I felt like Songkran but no water. You know ppl, trucks, and motorbikes.

Report by Neung,

Thanks for the on the spot update Khun Neung.

Don't be surprised if Mr allseasons in Dublin tells you that your report is incorrect as only he knows the true state of affairs. :roll:

I assume the MRT is still running without any probs?

PS. You, AAA and Kus may want to check out Dream Hotel next Friday and there is some Bellydancing extravaganza taking place.

Well, now we are focus on Hip Hop haha, but Belly dancing is still interesting to me.

OK about MRT, i got SMS that the one exit was closed at Ladproa Station, the exit to Chokechai something like that I can't remember.