Israel does it again...

[PiAnt]

I've never believed in anything passionately enough to get shot over it...

I wonder (given the recent Israel and Red Shirt situation) what people think just after being shot for their cause...

Do they lie there thinking, "I'm dying for a righteous belief, fighting for truth, justice and/or democracy."

Or do they think, "f*ck! I didn't think it would really happen... this really f*cking hurts! Now I'm never gonna get to fulfill my ambitions.... I shoulda stayed at home and played Halo."

I wonder if Seh Daeng had enough brain functionality to think... "Hmm I was pretty dumb to say the snipers wouldn't get me."

Interesting point.

Halo 3?

[English_Bob]

I've never believed in anything passionately enough to get shot over it...

I wonder (given the recent Israel and Red Shirt situation) what people think just after being shot for their cause...

Do they lie there thinking, "I'm dying for a righteous belief, fighting for truth, justice and/or democracy."

Or do they think, "f*ck! I didn't think it would really happen... this really f*cking hurts! Now I'm never gonna get to fulfill my ambitions.... I shoulda stayed at home and played Halo."

I wonder if Seh Daeng had enough brain functionality to think... "Hmm I was pretty dumb to say the snipers wouldn't get me."

Interesting point.

Halo 3?

Excuse ME!... I think it's quite clear I wasn't making a point. I was simply musing on the experience of getting shot for your beliefs.

Would you be proud to die for a cause or feel a bit stupid?

[robbie36]

I've never believed in anything passionately enough to get shot over it...

I wonder (given the recent Israel and Red Shirt situation) what people think just after being shot for their cause...

Do they lie there thinking, "I'm dying for a righteous belief, fighting for truth, justice and/or democracy."

Or do they think, "f*ck! I didn't think it would really happen... this really f*cking hurts! Now I'm never gonna get to fulfill my ambitions.... I shoulda stayed at home and played Halo."

I wonder if Seh Daeng had enough brain functionality to think... "Hmm I was pretty dumb to say the snipers wouldn't get me."

Obviously you ask deep and meaningful questions.

Made more difficult by the inherent asymmetry to the underlying answers. You see Seah Deang did not have to be 'stupid' to believe that snipers couldnt get him because he assumed 1) either he was right and clever or 2) he was wrong (not stupid in his mind) because he was dead (and therefore not thinking at all.)

Rather like suicide bombers dont really need to worry about whether there will be 72 virgins or perhaps 2 or 3 in their afterlife. I just dont really think it is something they worry about.

P.S. Arent you the one who said you kicked down a road block? If you had been shot everyone would have said you were a stupid wanker and, of course, you wouldnt have been able to reply.

[PiAnt]

I've never believed in anything passionately enough to get shot over it...

I wonder (given the recent Israel and Red Shirt situation) what people think just after being shot for their cause...

Do they lie there thinking, "I'm dying for a righteous belief, fighting for truth, justice and/or democracy."

Or do they think, "f*ck! I didn't think it would really happen... this really f*cking hurts! Now I'm never gonna get to fulfill my ambitions.... I shoulda stayed at home and played Halo."

I wonder if Seh Daeng had enough brain functionality to think... "Hmm I was pretty dumb to say the snipers wouldn't get me."

Interesting point.

Halo 3?

Excuse ME!... I think it's quite clear I wasn't making a point. I was simply musing on the experience of getting shot for your beliefs.

Would you be proud to die for a cause or feel a bit stupid?

Excuse me! Did it look like I was???

Well, it depends.

The right cause, yes. Of course. Someone points a gun at mine, and I'll gladly jump in front. As you would. Extrapolate it and you might understand why others do it on a national scale. These people, unfortunately, haven't had the advantage of our education after all.

If you're trying NOT to make a point about dying for Israel or Palestine, then, unless you've actually been brought to adulthood in either situation, then you can only speculate what any, willing, would be martyrs might be considering.

[English_Bob]

I've never believed in anything passionately enough to get shot over it...

I wonder (given the recent Israel and Red Shirt situation) what people think just after being shot for their cause...

Do they lie there thinking, "I'm dying for a righteous belief, fighting for truth, justice and/or democracy."

Or do they think, "f*ck! I didn't think it would really happen... this really f*cking hurts! Now I'm never gonna get to fulfill my ambitions.... I shoulda stayed at home and played Halo."

I wonder if Seh Daeng had enough brain functionality to think... "Hmm I was pretty dumb to say the snipers wouldn't get me."

Obviously you ask deep and meaningful questions.

Made more difficult by the inherent asymmetry to the underlying answers. You see Seah Deang did not have to be 'stupid' to believe that snipers couldnt get him because he assumed 1) either he was right and clever or 2) he was wrong (not stupid in his mind) because he was dead (and therefore not thinking at all.)

Rather like suicide bombers dont really need to worry about whether there will be 72 virgins or perhaps 2 or 3 in their afterlife. I just dont really think it is something they worry about.

P.S. Arent you the one who said you kicked down a road block? If you had been shot everyone would have said you were a stupid wanker and, of course, you wouldnt have been able to reply.

It's just musing... I wonder if people truly give thought to the possibility they will get shot while doing whatever it is they are doing.

As to whether Seh Daeng was stupid... Well, that's a matter for debate...

He was a renegade soldier.

He worked with snipers.

He (probably) used a sniper to kill Col Romklao the previous month so was aware of their capabilities.

He then proceeded to continue a daily routine in clear visibility while surrounded by tall buildings swarming with soldiers.

I wonder (as I mentioned) IF he had had enough brain functionality during the week or so it took him to die, did he regret saying those words? Or walking the same routine. Someone might even have taken it as a personal challenge.

Yes - I kicked over a barricade. I came out of a building at Asoke and found myself between two burning barricades. Not being able to go East or West and not wishing to stay in the same place I kicked it over and rode through...

Had I been shot, I'd have felt very pissed off seeing as I was only trying to get home and someone had blocked my way.

I doubt EVERYONE would have called me a 'Stupid wanker'... people who know me would have come up with much better insults.

[English_Bob]

Excuse me! Did it look like I was???

Well, it depends.

The right cause, yes. Of course. Someone points a gun at mine, and I'll gladly jump in front. As you would. Extrapolate it and you might understand why others do it on a national scale. These people, unfortunately, haven't had the advantage of our education after all.

If you're trying NOT to make a point about dying for Israel or Palestine, then, unless you've actually been brought to adulthood in either situation, then you can only speculate what any, willing, would be martyrs might be considering.

I wouldn't jump in front of a gun... what the Hell makes you think I'd jump in front of a gun? They go 'bang' and make holes in people!

I'm really not trying to make a point about Israel or Palestine (So get the **** off our forum, a**hole!)... I'm just interested in the psychology of people who ARE willing to die for a cause.

[robbie36]

I'm really not trying to make a point about Israel or Palestine (So get the f*ck off our forum, a**hole!)... I'm just interested in the psychology of people who ARE willing to die for a cause.

Honestly....

I have virtually never met a parent who wouldnt die instead of their own child. Now it isnt really much of a 'CAUSE' as such but it seems inherent to our own psychology. How you read that is difficult. Maybe people dont value their own lives that much as they get older. Maybe it is genetic.

It is by the way, while noble, inherently destructive.

So when you talk about 'CAUSES' you should perhaps consider that most (or at least many) would give up their life in the defense of a single human being.

[PiAnt]

I have virtually never met a parent who wouldnt die instead of their own child.

I think this is the point he missed.

Or didn't.

[beej]

As to whether Seh Daeng was stupid... Well, that's a matter for debate...

He was a renegade soldier.

He worked with snipers.

He (probably) used a sniper to kill Col Romklao the previous month so was aware of their capabilities.

He then proceeded to continue a daily routine in clear visibility while surrounded by tall buildings swarming with soldiers.

I wonder (as I mentioned) IF he had had enough brain functionality during the week or so it took him to die, did he regret saying those words? Or walking the same routine. Someone might even have taken it as a personal challenge.

Funny enough, there is A LOT more to Seh Daeng than most originally thought, a couple of days after his death facts started to emerge that made him out to be the man I thought he wasn't.

Anything bad I said against him, at the time I think I'd like to take back... and to be honest, even if what I've now been told turns out not to be true, I still hold some respect for him and how he kept those Red shirt guard criminal loons in check.... no looting, no drinking and so on, things would have ended a lot differently if he wasn't murdered by whoever murdered him.

[English_Bob]

I have virtually never met a parent who wouldnt die instead of their own child.

I think this is the point he missed.

Or didn't.

Yep - I don't have kids and I don't feel strongly enough about a cause to risk my life.

Would I sacrifice my life for my parents? Probably not... I'd RISK my life... But not throw it away.

There's a difference between dying for a cause and dying for a person - I feel.

How does dying help gain your goal?

[digitalcat]

Flotilla Choir presents: We Con the World

[PiAnt]

I do believe Turkey is about to discover that reducing relations with Israel "to a minimum", means, exactly, squat.

Who'd call a country "Turkey" anyway?

[Wicked]

Next time those free gaza ppl will think before do they it again, action speaks louder then words.

For some reason u have to admire Israel, they dont only talk but take action, cant be said of the rest of the world or the UN, they only talk and take "sanctions" pffff the UN should better take some action against the US for all the stupid **** they have done in Iraq and Afghinstan

[DANNO]

Next time those free gaza ppl will think before do they it again, action speaks louder then words.

For some reason u have to admire Israel, they dont only talk but take action, cant be said of the rest of the world or the UN, they only talk and take "sanctions" pffff the UN should better take some action against the US for all the stupid sh*t they have done in Iraq and Afghinstan

Following your logic in the first sentence, ---> that is why the US is in Kabul (+) and Baghdad (-) :roll:

BTW

---NATO is invested in Afghanistan --- and isn't Belgium part of ....eerrr, never mind

[eagle]

Flotilla Choir presents: We Con the World

[Wicked]

Following your logic in the first sentence, ---> that is why the US is in Kabul (+) and Baghdad (-) icon_rolleyes.gif

not really

BTW

---NATO is invested in Afghanistan --- and isn't Belgium part of ....eerrr, never mind

what i have to with the part belgium is there too....

belgium is run by a bunch of square headed ppl who think about there own position and money

[DJTX]

the UN should better take some action against the US for all the stupid sh*t they have done in Iraq and Afghinstan

Ahh, yeah as if the US would care. What are they going to do, stop shipping Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus to the US? Is some country going to stop sending aid to the US? Are they going to stop US exports (as in food)?

And while they're at it, why don't they take sanctions against the UK? Aren't they involved too? i guess Belgium isn't in Afganistan either are they? But then again, they're the smart ones aren't they?. They're not like those stupid Americans :roll:

[CiaranM]

Next time those free gaza ppl will think before do they it again, action speaks louder then words.

For some reason u have to admire Israel, they dont only talk but take action, cant be said of the rest of the world or the UN, they only talk and take "sanctions" pffff the UN should better take some action against the US for all the stupid sh*t they have done in Iraq and Afghinstan

so u admire piracy and murder !!! i'll guess u r a big fan of rape and child abuse also !!! :roll: :roll:

[beej]

meh..... whats wrong with having a 8 year war to oust the Taliban and destroy Opium production only to see Opium output not change and the Taliban walking back into parliament.

Billions on top of Billions of Tax payers money, lives of Europeans and 1000+ Americans..... for 100% sweet total **** all.

[beej]

Next time those free gaza ppl will think before do they it again, action speaks louder then words.

For some reason u have to admire Israel, they dont only talk but take action, cant be said of the rest of the world or the UN, they only talk and take "sanctions" pffff the UN should better take some action against the US for all the stupid sh*t they have done in Iraq and Afghinstan

so u admire piracy and murder !!! i'll guess u r a big fan of rape and child abuse also !!! :roll: :roll:

Hows that dodgy Irish boat doing, don't they arrive there today?

[beej]

oh

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/10243813.stm

[Rob]

Next time those free gaza ppl will think before do they it again, action speaks louder then words.

For some reason u have to admire Israel, they dont only talk but take action, cant be said of the rest of the world or the UN, they only talk and take "sanctions" pffff the UN should better take some action against the US for all the stupid sh*t they have done in Iraq and Afghinstan

so u admire piracy and murder !!! i'll guess u r a big fan of rape and child abuse also !!! :roll: :roll:

Hows that dodgy Irish boat doing, don't they arrive there today?

Yeah, I guess they figure that the boatload of bleeding-heart ******* UNSPECIFIED ETHNIC GROUP FROM IRELAND* will give the ******* UNSPECIFIED TERRORIST GROUP* more credibility. :roll:

*Edited by me at the request of a mob . . . errrr, nod . . . errr, mod.

[eagle]

Next time those free gaza ppl will think before do they it again, action speaks louder then words.

For some reason u have to admire Israel, they dont only talk but take action, cant be said of the rest of the world or the UN, they only talk and take "sanctions" pffff the UN should better take some action against the US for all the stupid sh*t they have done in Iraq and Afghinstan

so u admire piracy and murder !!! i'll guess u r a big fan of rape and child abuse also !!! :roll: :roll:

Hows that dodgy Irish boat doing, don't they arrive there today?

Yeah, I guess they figure that the boatload of bleeding-heart micks will give the wogs more credibility. :roll:

Rob ?

[beej]

Next time those free gaza ppl will think before do they it again, action speaks louder then words.

For some reason u have to admire Israel, they dont only talk but take action, cant be said of the rest of the world or the UN, they only talk and take "sanctions" pffff the UN should better take some action against the US for all the stupid sh*t they have done in Iraq and Afghinstan

so u admire piracy and murder !!! i'll guess u r a big fan of rape and child abuse also !!! :roll: :roll:

Hows that dodgy Irish boat doing, don't they arrive there today?

Yeah, I guess they figure that the boatload of bleeding-heart f*cking UNSPECIFIED ETHNIC GROUP FROM IRELAND* will give the f*cking UNSPECIFIED TERRORIST GROUP* more credibility. :roll:

*Edited by me at the request of a mob . . . errrr, nod . . . errr, mod.

I guess everyone in Gaza must be a terrorist, just like everyone in N.Ireland was :wink:

[beej]

A partial list of banned items allowed into Gaza...

Prohibited Items*

sage

cardamom

cumin

coriander

ginger

jam

halva

vinegar

nutmeg

chocolate

fruit

preserves

seeds and nuts

biscuits and sweets

potato chips

gas for soft drinks

dried fruit

fresh meat

plaster tar wood for construction

cement

iron

glucose

industrial salt

plastic/glass/metal

containers industrial

margarine

tarpaulin sheets for huts

fabric (for clothing)

flavor and smell enhancers

fishing rods

various fishing nets

buoys

ropes for fishing

nylon nets for greenhouses hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries spare parts for tractors

dairies for cowsheds

irrigation pipe systems

ropes to tie greenhouses

planters for saplings

heaters for chicken farms

musical instruments

size A4 paper writing

notebooks

newspapers

toys

razors

sewing machines and spare parts

heaters

horses

donkeys

goats

chickens

cattle