Drugs, man!

[English_Bob]

What are your thoughts on drugs?

Are they the scourge of society?

A fun recreational activity for all the family?

A choice for consenting adults?

Should drugs be legalised?

Let's have a No Holds Barred discussion about drugs... **** yeah!

[JTHM]

I'll pass, thanks...never understood why someone would want to **** up their lifes and dull their brains with the stuff

Slightly off topic ( yes, I know there's a big difference between using and smuggling drugs) but I remember seeing a poster in S'pore some years ago which was hilarious (freely quoted):

This is your a**hole before you get caught smuggling drugs: o

This is your a**hole after you have finished your prison sentence: O

:-)

Edited May 23, 2011 by JTHM

[English_Bob]

But DO drugs dull the brain?

History is full of people who used drugs and were creative and successful. Musicians, artists, writers, politicians.

And do they **** up your life? Or is it the fact that they are illegal that makes them more dangerous? There are plenty of people using drugs on a regular basis whose lives are just fine.

Is it the use of drugs or the MISuse of drugs that has the negative effects?

[pandorea]

Alcohol can fcuk your brains up too, slower than drugs but it surly can.

Drugs addicts in DK have got special service from the government. They can get drugs via doctor's prescription. If they want to fcuk their lives, that's fine but they fcuk others lives and taxes money too.

[DANNO]

I'm high on life man...!

[JTHM]

I think they do, if you use them long enough.. My theory is that anything that messes up your brain receptors will eventually backfire on you..

True, some very creative folks had/have a history of drug (ab)use, but I'm not so sure they would have been less creative if they weren't using drugs?

You have a good point, if drugs weren't illegal, the chance of destroying your life would be smaller, you'd avoid the stigmatisation and the risk of being jailed and/or lose your job... But I think you'd still end up with addicts, and it is the addiction that makes you make bad decisions and become self destructive

There's a big difference between using and misusing, I'm not saying a joint or a line once in a while will doom you, the problem is that the users themselves cross that line very easily, perhaps even without realizing it...

If it sounds like I'm moralising, I'm not :-) I just don't think the drugs are worth the risk

[English_Bob]

I'm not making any points yet.

I'm just asking questions at the moment. I'm waiting for Iain to come online as he will have some pretty interesting comments.

If alcohol and cigarettes are legal and open to personal choice (and abuse), doesn't it make sense to legalise everything, and therefore regulate the sale of it?

[Stramash]

Firstly, let's get something very clear;

Alcohol is a drug. Tobacco is a drug.

Either of these 2 completely legal drugs kills more people per year than all the other illicit drugs combined.

The only reason marijuana is illegal is because it threatened the monopoly of the 'paper barons' of the USA in the early 20th century.

You can't lump all illegal psychoactive substances under the same banner. That is the territory of the uneducated tabloid media and the even more uneducated fools who read those tabloids.

To really have an open debate on illicit drugs you have to understand the 'relative harms' of those substances. The three categories of this are; physical harm, social harm and dependence.

If a 'drug' scores low on these three categories then surely it should be the choice of the individual on whether to use that substance or not? Don't get me wrong; I am not advocating total legalisation per se; I would more welcome regulation, with strict controls not only on who can buy these substances (age restrictions being the obvious one) but on the quality of the substances themselves.

Countries who have taken a refreshing approach to drugs and drug problems (Portugal and Switzerland) have evidenced nothing but positive results.

We need to take a fresh approach to drugs. They should be removed from the criminal sphere and become a social/health issue.

Regulation would also take drugs away from organised crime/terrorism, vastly reducing their income, while at the same time raising huge amounts in taxation income which would allow real treatment programmes for those with a dependency on the 'harder' drugs.

And frankly, if you drink alcohol, but are vehemently opposed to other 'drugs' then, imho, you have already forfeited the right to a voice in this debate.

[bigKus]

Do I have to take err... some drugs first to discuss about drugs... ( would make the discussion more fun )

[Stramash]

Do I have to take err... some drugs first to discuss about drugs... ( would make the discussion more fun )

Yes. I recommend a cocktail of mushrooms and ketamine...

[CiaranM]

I'll pass, thanks...never understood why someone would want to **** up their lifes and dull their brains with the stuff

hmmmm ..... well i don't indulge much now, but a good E (or 3) at the weekends didn't **** up my life or dull the brain ..... too much !!!

and had some ******* great nights ..... and days !!!!

and IMO .... alcohol fucks up ur brain more than most drugs .... except acid .... it's a ******* head wrecker !!!!

[English_Bob]

Stopping the supply of drugs is expensive and not at all successful. Studies suggest that only 10% of drugs are intercepted.

If drugs were legal, couldn't all that money be used to educate children on the dangers of drugs?

And if drugs were sold in properly licensed Drugeries, quality would be better, fewer impurities, taxable and there would be greater control over who could buy them.

[admin]

Stopping the supply of drugs is expensive and not at all successful. Studies suggest that only 10% of drugs are intercepted.

If drugs were legal, couldn't all that money be used to educate children on the dangers of drugs?

And if drugs were sold in properly licensed Drugeries, quality would be better, fewer impurities, taxable and there would be greater control over who could buy them.

You mean like all of that lottery money that went to schools? LOL. If they taxed drugs and claimed the money was going to prevention they would just slash the existing budgets for prevention and use the money to fund something that will get them votes. Drug addicts aren't a very powerful lobbying group. :-)

That said, I'm not against drugs. I've had my fun. I don't really find a need for them now. Especially in Thailand where the consequences are so severe.

That said, would I mind if they legalized cannabis back home? No. I would rather accidentally step on someone's foot that was high than someone who was drunk. Alcohol is a much more evil drug in terms of lives destroyed.

Cocaine or heroin? Maybe but I would prefer they they just legalize people getting high so the pharmaceutical companies would have an incentive to create a cocaine-like or heroin-like substance without the addictive qualities. In fact, I think if they legalized the act of getting high they could make a lot of safer variants of the drugs that are causing so many problems today.

Sure there are drugs like methadone out there but if you're a pharmaceutical executive and you can create a drug that has to be heavily regulated by doctors and your users only want as a last resort (and usually as part of a drug treatment program) why would you even bother spending R&D money on that when you can invent a drug that makes old men get hard-ons and sell it like candy?

The biggest problem with drugs in the world is that people want to keep people from getting high. It's not necessarily the drugs themselves. By their standards it's okay if you take Vicodin for pain but if you take it to take the edge off you're abusing it and are a criminal. Or an even better example are the paint and glue sniffers. Here are two completely legal products but if you use them in a way that gets you high, that's illegal.

Granted, sniffing glue really messes up your head but the whole attitude that people have to be stopped from getting high unless it's on booze just seems so silly. Make affordable drugs that let people get high for the cost of a spray paint can but don't turn their heads into jello.

[Stramash]

Stopping the supply of drugs is expensive and not at all successful. Studies suggest that only 10% of drugs are intercepted.

If drugs were legal, couldn't all that money be used to educate children on the dangers of drugs?

And if drugs were sold in properly licensed Drugeries, quality would be better, fewer impurities, taxable and there would be greater control over who could buy them.

I would not advocate for all drugs to be legal/regulated. We have to remember that some substances (heroin/amphetamine/methamphetamine) are very destructive and dangerous. However, those with relatively low scales of harm should be regulated, and you're right Dave; the resulting income from taxation would pay for real education on the dangers for young people as well as realistic and accessible treatment pathways.

What I would also support is prescribing of pharmaceutical heroin for addicts where other forms of treatment have failed. It's worked in Switzerland beyond all their expectations, and methadone is just swapping one addiction for another.

Regulation/control/prescription would lower crime (and also lower insurance premiums), lower BBV infection rates, lower death rates, increase taxation revenue, increase education, improve available treatments and improve safety in communities.

And we haven't even touched on the medicinal benefits of various substances; marijuana, mdma and psilocybin amongst them.

[JTHM]

Frankly, I cannot imagine being addicted to a legal and taxed drug, e.g crack or heroin, is much more fun than being addicted to an illegal one, but as the uneducated fool who reads tabloids, I'll leave both the drugs and the discussion to you guys.

[English_Bob]

If it were possible to stop by at your local drugerie and buy FCUK cocaine or heroin, the chances of kids using it would be lowered. If picture ID were required for every purchase, only adults would be able to purchase it.

There doesn't seem to be a problem with kids walking around sex stores in UK, even though they must be interested in porn, why not drug stores?

In addition, if injectable drugs were sold in pre-packaged, disposable, single-use hypodermic needles, that would cut down on needle sharing and infections.

[CiaranM]

Frankly, I cannot imagine being addicted to a legal and taxed drug, e.g crack or heroin, is much more fun than being addicted to an illegal one, but as the uneducated fool who reads tabloids, I'll leave both the drugs and the discussion to you guys.

well there's lots of ppl already addicted to legal drugs such as alcohol and tobacco ... don't imagine that's much fun either !!

the legalisation of drugs is obviously a very tricky one .... where do u draw the line or do u just legalise everything and set age requirements and limit (or attempt to) useage. personally i'd be in favour of legalising marijuana, mdma and some of the "softer" drugs, but i guess users of "stronger" drugs would have arguements as to why "their" drugs should be legalised also !!

not an easy one .... but then the present status quo doesn't make much sense either !!!

[English_Bob]

The point being, not everyone gets addicted, anymore than all smokers or drinkers get addicted.

One of the problems with buying illegal drugs is that it necessarily forces people to mix with criminals. Criminals don't care who they sell to. They don't care about safety, quality, age limits etc A licensed store would have to ensure they sell only good quality, 'clean' drugs to appropriate people.

I think the point about designing non-addictive drugs is valid.

[CiaranM]

The point being, not everyone gets addicted, anymore than all smokers or drinkers get addicted.

i'm no expert in the field, Iain will probably know more on this issue, but i believe substances like heroin and crack cocaine r highly addictive substances and even "dabbling" in them is a high risk ... as i said i'm no expert on this subject, but to me the criminalising of ppl using MDMA or marijuana, while ppl can get pissed out of their heads every night of the week seems stupid !!!

and as Bill has said i'd prefer to bump into someone who's stoned rather than someone who's pissed up !!!

[English_Bob]

The risk of addictiveness (Is that a word? Hm I think so.) of drugs is one of personal choice and education.

If people were really educated about the dangers of all drugs (inc currently legal one), they would then have the informed choice to indulge or not. Right now, kids get their education from peers and dealers. How about if drugs were sold in real packaging with government health warnings and guidance for use printed on them? Wouldn't that be better than wrapped in tinfoil, delivered fresh from a Nigerian's a**hole?

[simply_oriental]

I don't know much about drugs,but when i saw peoples use drugs and they lost everything include their life as well.If someone used drugs and know how limits they can use it's they choice but i avoid it,i don't say i never tried some but it's not that too dangerous and i talked to myself what's the hell are you doing.Then i stop,it's happen only 1 time in my life.

10 years ago One day when i had my toothache at the midnight i drove my car to the hospital but they had no the dentist over there i went t0 3 hospitals no the dentist over there,I was so pissed off nobody help me then I asked them can you give me the morphine.i am so ******* pain and dieing now.If we can find something like Morphine for my case i think it should Legal sometime and some where,not only in the hospital,it's depend.

People who used drugs and were creative and successful. Musicians, artists, writers, politicians.And many of them dead because of drugs as well.I just wonder why these peoples can crate some thing great only while they used drugs only?Lately i heard that Whiny Houston she's look so bad because of she addicted from so many years as same as many famous peoples.I saw snoop dogg smoke weed on his concert some of them likes but **** him,that's bad if the young peoples watch and want to do it like him.

As i said i have a few experience about drugs but i think drugs should not involve to the regular life of any family.

Edited May 24, 2011 by simply_oriental

[English_Bob]

But if someone wants to go skydiving, scuba-diving or have sex without a condom, there are no laws stopping those activities even though they have a risk involved.

If someone is aware of the risks and chooses to take the risks themselves, isn't that their business? After all, they are adults. It's up to them what they do with their money, right?

[Sukhumvit_Farang]

In approaching the question of drugs, I think that it is useful to divide the topic into three different aspects - and then to analyze each of them separately: There is the consumption of drugs; the buying and selling of drugs; and actions committed while under the influence of and / or in the procurement of drugs. I maintain that only one part of this chain should be punished.

Starting with the consumption of drugs: Every human being has the right to do as he pleases with and to his own body - insofar as it doesn't affect the right of others to do the same. This includes the right to self-destruction, by any means, including the use of drugs. I therefore think people have a natural right to use drugs. (The exception to this is children - who are not in a position to make such decisions.)

On the matter of buying and selling drugs: The buying and selling of things, in and of itself, is not and cannot be a crime - as long as the buyer and seller are consenting adults. I think we can all agree that no-one is harmed by the act of buying and selling of drugs. So this should likewise be legal.

So to summarize thus far: Buying drugs and using them oneself harms no-one - except possibly for the person who chooses to use the drugs. And people have the right to harm themselves. So buying, selling and using drugs should be legal.

But what about my third point? Here, in my opinion, is what should be illegal. Let's say that you use drugs, get high, and go out and commit crimes while under the influence of drugs. Or let's say that you are addicted to drugs, don't have the money to pay for them and therefore resort to stealing to pay for your drugs. To my thinking, these are punishable crimes - as they infringe upon others.

Further, if drugs were legalized, there would be the additional economic consequence of lower prices for drugs. This would have several benefits: People who use drugs would be able to pay less for them and therefore be less likely to need to steal to support their habits. And lower prices would make the drug trade less lucrative and therefore less attractive to criminals. (Those of you who know anything about American history will recall that when alcohol was made illegal in America early in the previous century, gangsters got involved in alcohol production and sale - and crime associated with alcohol increased dramatically.)

So why are drugs illegal? In my opinion, drugs are made illegal because this allows governments to extract money from the populace in order to fight wars on drugs. And whenever there are wars, somebody is profiting. It's the same principle used by certain countries in fighting foreign wars: Wars are a good excuse to extract money from taxpayers - money that can be handed back to supporters of the government through such things as arms purchases.

Anyway, if drugs were legalized, we would not need to have wars on drugs. The money spent on drug wars could then be spent on educating young people about the dangers of drugs - and on assisting addicts overcome their dependency.

For the record, I do not personally use drugs nor do I approve of their use as I believe them to be harmful to the health. Nor do I think that legalization would create a rush for people to experiment with drugs. In fact, I would even say that a lot of the attraction of drugs to young people is due to their illicit nature - the old "forbidden fruit" syndrome.

So I say: Legalize all drugs - spend the "drug war" money on education and treatment - and punish severely any crimes committed while under the influence of or in pursuit of drugs.

That being said, I don't expect drugs to ever be legalized because too many people are benefiting from the status quo.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Sukhumvit_Farang

[simply_oriental]

But if someone wants to go skydiving, scuba-diving or have sex without a condom, there are no laws stopping those activities even though they have a risk involved.

If someone is aware of the risks and chooses to take the risks themselves, isn't that their business? After all, they are adults. It's up to them what they do with their money, right?

Right it's they choices They can do anything with their money.But skydiving, scuba-diving they don't do regular even it's dangerous even someone addicted to this activities they didn't do it often right i guess,only for some professional peoples.But the drugs if they addicted they used everyday if someone know their limits and fell good for them it's they opinion.Never mind it's their money.

[English_Bob]

Right it's they choices They can do anything with their money.But skydiving, scuba-diving they don't do regular even it's dangerous even someone addicted to this activities they didn't do it often right i guess,only for some professional peoples.But the drugs if they addicted they used everyday if someone know their limits and fell good for them it's they opinion.Never mind it's their money.

I have a friend who skydives every weekend. And he races dirtbikes.

Addiction is something that can affect people different ways and for different substances. Some people have an 'addictive personality'. So they get addicted easily and to many things. We all know alcoholics, chain smokers, gamblers, potheads, junkies. But how many of us know many people whose lives are truly f**ked up by any of these things?

What % of people actually become f**ked up? I mean, I know people who use recreational drugs every day. Pot in the daytime, coke or E at nighttime. I don't know anyone whose life is a mess because of their use.

In fact, the only problems they seem to encounter are legal problems and purchasing problems.

They hold down good, well-paying jobs. They don't steal or commit crimes. And when they go out they have a great time. No fighting, no puking.

What is the justification for banning these people from using drugs?