stand with the Burmese people!

[Loburt]

The UN is not prohibited from dealing with the internal matters of a nation.

The notion that the UN can only deal with disputes between countries is a myth.

[Loburt]

From a Shanghai blogger:

Burma and My Ignorance

I understand that I seemed to be living in vacuum, and until now I didn't really understand what is going on in Burma. I am on holiday from Oct 1 to today - the national holiday, so I am pretty relaxed and didn't use the Internet the same way as I did. Pardon me about my ignorance, but I didn't know what happened in Burma until a BBC reporter sent me an email to ask me whether I am happy about China's reaction to the events in Burma. At that time, I even don't know the meaning of Burma, and I looked it up in my online dictionary, and know it is the name of the country. I know the Chinese name very well - Miandian, and Burma is just too different from its Chinese pronounciation. Then I started to see threads on this blog discussing it.

OK. The I learned a little bit more about it via blogs, and some twitter updates. However, I still didn't get a full picture. When I try to find out information on the Internet about Burma, all my Internet connection just consistently cut off. I have ways like VPN, or proxy to work around it, but just because of my vacation mood, and the fact that I am not at computer most of the time, I didn't take the trouble to do it yet.

So, let me find out more about it when I have more time (instead of moving from one place to another). Meanwhile, I think it makes sense to start the topic so people can start to talk about it. That discussion can be very interesting.

Something I know is, most of the links in a Google News Search results are not accessible, and trigger the Great Firewall. Someone doesn't want people in China to know what is happening, even though it is out of China.

Posted by Jian Shuo Wang at October 5, 2007 12:40 PM

http://home.wangjianshuo.com/archives/20071005_burma_and_my_ignorance.htm

[Bruce551]

Burmese Testimonials

The anonymity of these people is part of their story. Neither the foreigner nor the speakers can be identified for fear of retribution against those who speak out. Two teachers, a young man, a housewife, an abbot, a businessman ? all tell the same story in their different ways. It is the story of a people ruled by terror, stripped of freedom, who do not know when their suffering will end. SETH MYDANS

A housewife recalled the brutality she saw while shopping for food Sept. 28:

I saw people in the street just beaten up for no reason ? just walking along the road, not even part of the protests. There was this young boy, he was alone and not shouting with the crowd or clapping. This captain came up to him, just started beating him and the boy fell on the street. Then the police pushed him into one of those trucks that were lined up to take demonstrators.

As they pushed him, he fell again. Then the police took out a big stick and gave him a huge blow on the back. After that, the captain told everyone in the street that they had 10 minutes to clear off. People were running for their lives. The vendors started to grab their things. There was one lady selling fritters and she had a big vat of hot oil ? she had to walk with this oil and they came after her and beat her to make her move faster. I saw two boys at that moment walking up with cellphones. The captain grabbed the boys, took their cellphones and pushed them into the truck.

Someone who was with me at a previous job lost her son in these protests. He might have been on his way home, but we don?t know. This mother had a friend in the army and she asked him for help. He told her to stay home and ? no questions. The son, her only child, is still missing.

A young man described how the junta has clamped down on social exchange, destroying trust among people:

There is no more connection between people. It?s been broken. In our own neighborhood, the security groups will arrest anyone who is heard talking about these events. Even at tea shops we can?t talk about these things. These thugs will remember who you are and come to arrest you later. We can only talk to people we know on the street and never to strangers now. No one says anything at the market and everything has to be in secret. The bars have emptied out both because no one has any more money and what fun is it to get drunk when you can?t talk?

Even now we don?t dare take our transistor radios to listen to foreign broadcasts outside. Just in the last few days, we have been threatened with arrest by local authorities for doing this in our ward. Anyone with a cellphone or camera will have it confiscated.

This is not the end. This is just a stopping point and we are not satisfied. We don?t know the future but we will keep our anger burning inside.

A teacher talked about the pain of seeing Buddhism desecrated and the fear of the military that spread among the monks.

It is almost coming on 50 years that we have clung to our culture by tolerating this military government. But something we revered was insulted.

I cannot continue to tolerate this. We only hope that bad karma will fall upon them but there?s nothing else we can do now.

I know dozens of monks. One monk is very old. He is 78. It never occurred to him that in his lifetime he would have to hide. The day after the shootings started, I went to this monastery and the faces that I saw on those monks was something I had never seen. It is not fear. It was a sadness so unbelievable.

Now the young monks that I talked to ? who weren?t rounded up ? they want to disrobe. They don?t have the moral courage to go on. ?Better to be a layman,? they said.

I told them that this would be a terrible loss for our Buddhism. ?No,? they say, ?What?s the use of meditation? The power of meditation can?t stop them from beating us.?

The worst thing now is that no amount of persuasion from the abbots will stop the young monks from disrobing.

An abbot of a monastery where hundreds of children are taught said three-quarters of the monks had fled:

How difficult this is. ...They ran away for their security. ... We have students studying English but our English-teaching monks have left us. We are very unhappy now. I would like to invite guests to see this, but I am afraid.

A teacher who organizes the curriculum for the monks added:

When the soldiers raided the monastery, they came into the school and tore down pictures of some tourists with whom the monks had been practicing English at Shwedagon Pagoda. The soldiers would circle the monastery at night to see if these monks would come back so they could be arrested.

A businessman whose company lost an enormous amount of business during the upheaval lamented Myanmar?s isolation:

I joined the peaceful demonstrations to show my support. I would do it again. I don?t agree with sanctions on Myanmar. Of course, I may be biased because I?m a businessman. My own experience of traveling to other countries opened my mind and changed my life. I loved the freedom I found in the United States. It was something I had never experienced. If I hadn?t spent time abroad, I would have ended up as a military man. Or else I could have been an informer exposing the conversation we?re having right now.

From NY Times

If the people of the world can stand by and let this huge injustice take place, then we are doomed as a civilization.

[GoldMember]

Everytime i have talked to guys in Thailand about Burma you normally get complete indifference at best (historically understandable -after all these guys were habitual invaders) .So congratulations to ITN ,NHK,the BBC et al and their brave journalists for their reporting and shame on the Thai government and the rest of them for their complete apathy.Presumably palms are too busy being greased with the finest Mogok rubies.

[Loburt]

Not likely, as their aren't many Mogok rubies left.

Habitual invaders? What about the Siamese sacking of Angkor, the invasion of Vientiane and the seizing of the Emerald Buddha, and the annexation of Shan State during WWII? Not to mention the battle of Ban Rom Klao in the early 1980s (in which the Laos defeated the Thai army led by Chavalit Yongchaiyudh).

Unfortunately, these facts rarely enter the consciousness of many people here.

It's always the bad Burmese invaders. Seems there's a an epic Thai-language movie about it almost every year.

[zeusbheld]

It's always the bad Burmese invaders. Seems there's a an epic Thai-language movie about it almost every year.

facts rarely impact nationalistic mythologiies. look at the posts of the american neocons on TF for an example..

[GoldMember]

Well every country has their own personal Bete-noire-whether logical or not

Thailand-Burmese

Cambodia-Vietnam

UK-France

USA-France

Every other country on earth-France

Every planet in the solar system-France

[zeusbheld]

Well every country has their own personal Bete-noire-whether logical or not

Thailand-Burmese

Cambodia-Vietnam

UK-France

USA-France

Every other country on earth-France

Every planet in the solar system-France

someone has to take up the slack after the collapse of the soviet union. viva la france!!!

[Loburt]

Putin is starting to do a pretty good job of that all on his own.

[Loburt]

The Thais don't really have much choice, Hugo.

Their major investment in Burma is the Yadana gas pipeline. According to the contract they signed with the Burmese last decade, even if they don't take the gas they are legally obligated to pay the Burmese hundreds of millions of dollars a year for it.

The other points about the Burmese not trusting Thailand are accurate.

I think the Thai proposal is actually not a bad one. The only way international pressure might have any effect is if everyone is adopting the same approach. So getting everyone together to try and work that out seems like a good idea.

The criticism of the Democrats is just plain stupid. Democrat-led governments have always been more supportive of the opposition in Burma and less friendly to the regime.

The Democrats are going to have a hard enough time competing to win the next election. Thai voters just don't care about the party's policy on Burma, and won't decide who to vote for based on Burma policy.

So it's a bit silly to expect them to be focusing on that at this point in time. They need to be focusing on what the Thai voters want. Otherwise, we will end up with Thaksin's cronies in power again - and they don't give a damn about democracy in Burma. Or Thailand.

[Loburt]

I doubt that the Thais dont have more choices.

It's not only a gas pipeline which these two countries connects.

What about the burmese refugees?

Are they officially accepted in Thailand as political refugees?

What about an early and clear protest against the monk-killings?

Why to hide behind international organisations as ASEAN, UN?

Thai PM was reported to answer UN-envoys request with the comment

that the Thai government could not point on the burmese regime because they themselves were not legally elected.

But this Thai goverment was installed to restore democracy, wasn't it?

In my 2-satang-opinion it remains a weak and disappointing re-"action" (?).

And yes, you're right, thai parties (they were critisized in general) and people are more interested in thai subjects such as coming elections.

Even this topic shows how much Thais are interested in their burmese neighbours.

Sad.

Thailand is sheltering something like 140,000 refugees from Burma. While I can't say their treatment has always been good, they still deserve a lot of credit. That's a lot of people to take in. And when he was army chief, Gen. Surayud did more to protect them than any other commander.

The slow reaction to the shooting of monks was disappointing and wrong.

I don't think Thailand is hiding behind ASEAN and the UN, simply recognizing that there is strength in numbers. The Burmese are not going to listen to the Thais alone. They do not trust the Thais. They are historic enemies.

Furthermore, the Burmese are masters at playing the game of when one foreign power tries to push them, running to another foreign power and doing deals with them. They've done this quite successfully with China and India.

That's why a united approach is the only one that might have any chance of success.

I think the PM's comment about a coup government being in a weak position to lecture the Burmese junta is surprisingly frank and accurate. While this government was installed to restore democracy, until it actually does, there will be many who doubt its sincerity.

Most Thais are not interested in their Burmese neighbors. Any more than the Chinese are, or the Americans are interested in their Mexican neighbors. That's the way of the world, sadly.

And elections are rarely ever won or lost on foreign policy.

[CiaranM]

And elections are rarely ever won or lost on foreign policy.

"it's the economy stupid !!!" ..... from Clinton's memoirs, think it was one of his advisors !!

as Loburt points out foreign policy doesn't usually count .... unless u've just lost a war, which is probably why Bush refuses to even contemplate pulling out of Iraq. however, i kind of suspect the neo-cons wouldn't mind losing the next election as it means the democrats r left with sorting out the f**king shambles in iraq and a record government defecit ... once again !!

[iBatch]

Dear friends,

Last week, Burma went dark--the military shut down all internet, telephone and communication links with the rest of the world. They did it because it has been the pictures, blog posts, and emails--of monks brutally murdered, journalists shot--that have done the most to galvanize the entire world on Burma. Without that flow of information, the media is reporting dry diplomatic processes--and each day the danger grows that the press will move on.

We can't allow the Burmese blackout to succeed. Avaaz is working to support highly respected Burmese democracy and civil society groups by sending them $100,000 in crucial technical and humanitarian support this week. These groups, working in the region with the right equipment and tools, can help bring stories out of Burma and poke holes in the blackout, shining spotlights on the ongoing cruelty in Burma. They are desperate for help to give humanitarian assistance to the victims of the crackdown and tell their stories to the world before the current window of media attention passes. Other donors take months to raise money; only we can be fast enough to meet this urgent need. Can we raise $100,000 (75,000 Euros) in the next 24 hours so the money can be transferred this week? Click below now to make a donation online:

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/end_the_burmese_blackout/1.php?cl=32587613

A massive military crackdown has quashed the public protests and thousands of peaceful monks and protesters are right now being brutalized in secret prisons, away from the TV cameras. Burma's people need us more than ever. Over the last several days, over 775,000 Avaaz members have answered the call for help and signed our petition, launched a global ad campaign, organized hundreds of protests, and lobbied their governments. Yesterday, we delivered our petition personally to UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown, and helped win stronger measures on Burma from the European Union. The UN Security Council, including China, has finally condemned the crackdown.

The pressure is working. Every news story on Burma cites the power of global public opinion in this situation. Burma's generals want to stifle that power by cutting off all communication, and there is a real danger this week that they will succeed, and the press will move on. But we can stop them. Click below to donate whatever you can:

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/end_the_burmese_blackout/1.php?cl=32587613

With hope and determination,

Ricken, Pascal, Graziela, Ben, Paul, Milena and the whole Avaaz Team

PS - If you're new to Avaaz and want to know more about us, our name means "voice" in many languages, and we are a legally registered non-profit organization, co-founded with the support of major NGO partners like Oxfam and MoveOn.org, and working with global figures like Al Gore on climate change and Desmond Tutu on poverty. We have offices in 6 countries and an administrative office in New York City at the address below. Our mission is a global democratic one, and our community has grown in just 9 months to over 1.5 million members from every nation on earth. Here are some links to more information about us:

Economist magazine features Avaaz after our launch in January:

http://www.economist.com/world/international/PrinterFriendly.cfm?story_id=8703047

A summary of all our recent campaigns and their impact:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/report_back_1/

A report back on all of our work on Burma so far ?

http://www.avaaz.org/blog/en

And here are a couple of articles about the situation so far:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/burma/story/0,,2186651,00.html

http://www.mizzima.com/MizzimaNews/EdOp/2007/Oct/02-Oct-07.html

[iBatch]

http://www.witness.org/

[Loburt]

Buddhist Monks March Again in Myanmar

2 hours ago

YANGON, Myanmar (AP) ? More than 100 Buddhist monks marched in northern Myanmar for nearly an hour Wednesday, the first public demonstration since the government's deadly crackdown last month on pro-democracy protesters, several monks said.

The monks in Pakokku shouted no slogans, but one monk told the Democratic Voice of Burma, a Norway-based short-wave radio station and Web site run by dissident journalists, that the demonstration was a continuation of the protests in September.

"We are continuing our protest from last month as we have not yet achieved any of the demands we asked for," the monk told Democratic Voice of Burma.

"Our demands are for lower commodity prices, national reconciliation and immediate release of (opposition leader) Aung San Suu Kyi and all the political prisoners," said the monk, who was not identified by name.

He said they had little time to organize so the march was small but "there will be more organized and bigger protests soon."

The demonstrations in Yangon last month numbered up to 100,000 people and were crushed when troops fired on protesters Sept. 26-27. The crackdown left at least 10 people dead by the government's count, though opposition groups say as many as 200 people may have been killed. The military junta's crushing move drew international condemnation.

Pakokku, a center for Buddhist learning with more than 80 monasteries about 390 miles northwest of the commercial center of Yangon, was the site of the first march last month by monks as they joined ? and then spearheaded ? the biggest anti-government protests in nearly two decades.

The protests originally started Aug. 19, when ordinary citizens took to the streets to vent anger after the government hiked fuel prices as much as 500 percent. The rallies gained momentum when Buddhist monks in Pakokku joined the protests in early September.

Reports that troops had beaten protesting monks in Pakokku on Sept. 6 rallied monks around the country to join the burgeoning marches.

On Wednesday, the monks started out at Pakokku's Shwegu Pagoda, marching for nearly an hour and chanting Buddhist prayers without incident. They then returned to their respective monasteries, two monks said in telephone interviews, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals.

The march came after a pro-junta rally in town. Opposition groups in exile claim such rallies are stage-managed by the government.

Historically, monks in Myanmar, who are revered in the country, have been at the forefront of protests, first against British colonialism and later military dictatorship.

They played a prominent part in the failed 1988 pro-democracy rebellion that sought an end to military rule, imposed since 1962. The junta held general elections in 1990, but refused to honor the results when Suu Kyi's National League for Democracy party won. Suu Kyi has been detained under house arrest for more than 12 of the past 18 years.

Also Wednesday, the NLD said the military government had freed seven of its members who were held for more than a month following the crackdown on the protests.

The releases Tuesday night came ahead of a visit by U.N. special envoy Ibrahim Gambari to seek reconciliation between the junta and democratic forces. The seven had been detained at the infamous Insein Prison in Yangon, said Nyan Win, a spokesman for the NLD.

"All these people had been arrested unnecessarily and we demand the immediate and unconditional release of all those detained arbitrarily," said Han Tha, another NLD spokesman. He added that at least 150 party members out of nearly 300 arrested since September remain in detention.

Han Tha said many of them have been denied proper medical treatment and faced harsh conditions.

The government earlier had said it detained about 3,000 people in connection with the protests but had released most of them.

[Ngairo]

smskun....u write good stuff...keep us informed.....

Loburt.....can u post some links for the current info.......can't find them here......this is another piece of world history...

[Loburt]

http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2007-10-31T100024Z_01_BKK121669_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-MYANMAR-MONKS-COL.XML&archived=False

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7009006983

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iXyKu_-LyzWZt_id1oMwN0cXs0tA

www.irrawaddy.org

[stegee]

let's hope that these protests get bigger and can get a more positive response!!

[steevolution]

let's hope that these protests get bigger and can get a more positive response!!

Six weeks of hope are over.

And now :?:

and now the BlackBoxGovernors do what they do best.

[eagle]

t would be like a death sentence for me," Nay Tin Myint said. "They have accused me of being a terrorist. I would be sent to prison for a very, very long time."

Makes me sick to see other countries using terrorist as an excuse to silence people and give them the right to kill them. Reminds me of Mccarthyism and the red scare. New words same idea

:twisted:

[Hobbes]

t would be like a death sentence for me," Nay Tin Myint said. "They have accused me of being a terrorist. I would be sent to prison for a very, very long time."

Makes me sick to see other countries using terrorist as an excuse to silence people and give them the right to kill them. Reminds me of Mccarthyism and the red scare. New words same idea

:twisted:

You don't have to go all that far back... :twisted:

[LakeGeneve]

Worth remembering the events of one year ago. The Nation editorial heading and by line says it all.

Saffron revolution: A year on, no change - The Nation Editorial September 24, 2008

The Burmese junta will continue to mock the world unless we start to take action now

Looking back one year ago, it was hard to hold back tears at what the Burmese military junta did to its own people. It was this week last year that thousands of monks, nuns, students and ordinary people poured to the streets of Rangoon and braved the security forces and their brutality. The army and police opened fire on peaceful demonstrators, killing dozens. There was outrage all over the world. And, yet, the Rangoon regime stood firm and carried on doing what it does best: intensifying the suppression of the Burmese people. The generals, hiding in their upcountry bunkers, knew full well that the fate of the demonstrators would not occupy the evening news for too long. The international community has too many of its own problems to ponder. It only responds to immediate issues at hand, and its span of attention is also very brief.

Then, Cyclone Nargis became a blessing in disguise for the regime. It gave the generals all the necessary time they needed to regain their posture, as the UN agencies and all other international organisations, humanitarian or not, had to beg to be allowed inside the devastated areas in the Irrawaddy Delta. They have all been willing to accommodate the regime's wishes and decrees. That has been the fault-line that nobody wants to raise. Of course, the nearly 3 million Burmese victims of the storm have continued to suffer because they have to depend entirely on the junta's helping hand. Whoever the recipients are of such assistance, they will have a high price to pay in the future. Whatever they do today and in the future will be closely monitored.

The junta has successfully used stringent rules to screen international workers and journalists who want to gain entry into the country. Complicated foreign exchange regimes have also enriched the junta's coffers. Obviously, no official from any international organisation would have the courage to give a frank assessment of money lost through the Burmese foreign exchanges. They would simply say it was for a good cause, to relieve the suffering of victims. Suffice to say, the junta is richer today than ever before, even though the economic malaise that plagued the country before the massive demonstrations last year continues unabated, with inflation as high as 50 per cent.

This helps to explain why the junta leaders are more confident than before in suppressing their own people and carrying out their specially designed "roadmaps". Just recently, the Burmese authorities arrested Nilar Thien, a leader of the 1988 student group. More and more students activists have been were arrested without making newspaper headlines. The regime has completely ignored the international community's appeal for the release of Aung San Suu Kyi and nearly 2,000 political prisoners. It knows deep in its heart that nobody outside the country can do anything about it.

If the junta leaders steer clear of internal discord, they can carry on and stay put. Just look at Asean and its current attitude towards Burma. After its strong statements expressing revulsion at the regime for using violence against its own people last September, the grouping is now claiming success in leading the humanitarian effort inside Burma. Since its admission to Asean in 1997, Burma has been pulling the regional grouping down and causing rifts among its members. So far, Rangoon has been calling all the shots, using ratification of the grouping's much-cherished first charter as a bargaining chip.

The regime has set up a nationwide poll which will rubberstamp its heartless governance. Like May's national referendum on the poll, the rigged outcome of the planned 2010 election will be used to legitimise the junta. The Burmese generals know they will get away scot-free because no country will pay close attention for very long. Unless we prove them wrong. To do that, we have to start acting now.