Your laptop and America

[thaibel]

I just heard this weekend on TV that when you go to America from now on they can ask you to give them your laptop at the immigration. They can analyse it completely even you're not a suspicious person. According to the item on the news here most Americans don't care (maybe they're used at it now), but most Europeans find they are going too far and are violating the privacy of people. What is next? Looking at which numbers are on your phone? Going completely naked trough American immigration?

I'm not trying to bash at the Americans in general, you should know me :roll: . But I'm sure if they (terrorists) really want they can easily get in America. How many illegals don't try to cross the Mexican-American border and even succeed.

Here is the URL, but except a small part (where they interview an American citizen) it's all in Dutch:

http://www.deredactie.be/cm/de.redactie/mediatheek/1.351623

Just your point of view: Does this really help to secure America or is it just another way to throw sand in the eyes of the people that they care about terrorism, but that they don't have a clue?

[Nelis]

I'm not sure what they expect to find on people's laptops, except of course porn and copyrighted material.

It's bullshit if they say it's for "safety reasons". Anyone who is a little computer savvy knows ways to encrypt documents or securely erase stuff.

[GoldMember]

Unless you walk in looking like Ali Babar i wouldnt really wouldnt worry about it.Now if they changed the visa waiver thing......... 8)

[cubsfan]

Yeah, that's too far now... they will find my Midget porn now... ****..

Actually they feel they can do it because of the Patriot Act ( also known as we can do whatever da **** we want to anybody ACT )....

I think they are checking for Child Porn....

[babyoiy]

Oh! That's funny! Whether this will happened in America/Europe or Asia...

[friendlyCat]

It must happened when I was asleep the George Bush suspended the Bill Of Rights in the US Constitution.

[trocks69]

they can go through any form of electronic storage. phone, laptop, disk, usb drives or external harddrives. BIG BROTHER is here. for some that dont know this is a referance to the book 1984, not that stupid TV show.

i dont agree to this but with the paranoia here about terriost people are losing their freedoms.

you would not believe how easy it is to cross the borders here. how many illegeals are here working but that is a whol other topic that pisses the hell out of me.

[grezzzy_greer]

It sounds about as slly as the questionaire on the Australian Customs & Immigration forms that asks if you are a criminal, and also if you have ever belonged to any terrorist organisations - presumably if you have been, or are a terrorist, but you say that you aren't, they can impose heavy fines on you for lying! This will of course help to deter terrorism because they will have to admit it, or get in trouble for being dishonest...shock, horror!

Anyone really wanting to commit terrorist acts in the USA or anywhere, is hardly likely to bring along a laptop with files showing their plans are they!? Encrypted OR unencrypted, it would be simply stupid to do so if that was their ulitmate aim, so I am inclined to agree that it is simply the US Police state mentality again...but...don't tell the American people...they think they are free, so who are we to remove the wool from their eyes?

[Loburt]

Anyone really wanting to commit terrorist acts in the USA or anywhere, is hardly likely to bring along a laptop with files showing their plans are they!? Encrypted OR unencrypted, it would be simply stupid to do so if that was their ulitmate aim...

Who says terrorists don't do stupid things?

I don't like the measure, as I suspect the authorities may record other information they have no right to. And I wonder about its constitutionality.

However, I don't automatically assume that every person wanting to do harm is smart enough to remove all traces on his computer that might connect him to organizations that want to do harm.

It's not like all these guys are brilliant, you know.

[primetime]

Nice one Greeezy "don't tell the American people...they think they are free, so who are we to remove the wool from their eyes?" I always say we no longer act like a free country, but a Communist state. The question is whose people are going to overthrow the government first, US or China? These actions are all the actions of a weak government just trying to hold on to power.

[trocks69]

Nice one Greeezy "don't tell the American people...they think they are free, so who are we to remove the wool from their eyes?" I always say we no longer act like a free country, but a Communist state. The question is whose people are going to overthrow the government first, US or China? These actions are all the actions of a weak government just trying to hold on to power.

OH MY GOD WERE NOT FREE!!!! next you will tell me there is no santa claus or easter bunny...you must work for the terriost trying to demoralize the american public.

sorry to say but i think the american people are to much of sheep to overthrow the goverment anymore or even give a stern warning to. way to many sheep in this country now.

[thaibel]

Travelers' Laptops May Be Detained At Border

No Suspicion Required Under DHS Policies

By Ellen Nakashima

Washington Post Staff Writer

Friday, August 1, 2008; Page A01

Federal agents may take a traveler's laptop computer or other electronic device to an off-site location for an unspecified period of time without any suspicion of wrongdoing, as part of border search policies the Department of Homeland Security recently disclosed.

Also, officials may share copies of the laptop's contents with other agencies and private entities for language translation, data decryption or other reasons, according to the policies, dated July 16 and issued by two DHS agencies, U.S. Customs and Border Protection and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

"The policies . . . are truly alarming," said Sen. Russell Feingold (D-Wis.), who is probing the government's border search practices. He said he intends to introduce legislation soon that would require reasonable suspicion for border searches, as well as prohibit profiling on race, religion or national origin.

DHS officials said the newly disclosed policies -- which apply to anyone entering the country, including U.S. citizens -- are reasonable and necessary to prevent terrorism. Officials said such procedures have long been in place but were disclosed last month because of public interest in the matter.

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Civil liberties and business travel groups have pressed the government to disclose its procedures as an increasing number of international travelers have reported that their laptops, cellphones and other digital devices had been taken -- for months, in at least one case -- and their contents examined.

The policies state that officers may "detain" laptops "for a reasonable period of time" to "review and analyze information." This may take place "absent individualized suspicion."

The policies cover "any device capable of storing information in digital or analog form," including hard drives, flash drives, cellphones, iPods, pagers, beepers, and video and audio tapes. They also cover "all papers and other written documentation," including books, pamphlets and "written materials commonly referred to as 'pocket trash' or 'pocket litter.' "

Reasonable measures must be taken to protect business information and attorney-client privileged material, the policies say, but there is no specific mention of the handling of personal data such as medical and financial records.

When a review is completed and no probable cause exists to keep the information, any copies of the data must be destroyed. Copies sent to non-federal entities must be returned to DHS. But the documents specify that there is no limitation on authorities keeping written notes or reports about the materials.

"They're saying they can rifle through all the information in a traveler's laptop without having a smidgen of evidence that the traveler is breaking the law," said Greg Nojeim, senior counsel at the Center for Democracy and Technology. Notably, he said, the policies "don't establish any criteria for whose computer can be searched."

Customs Deputy Commissioner Jayson P. Ahern said the efforts "do not infringe on Americans' privacy." In a statement submitted to Feingold for a June hearing on the issue, he noted that the executive branch has long had "plenary authority to conduct routine searches and seizures at the border without probable cause or a warrant" to prevent drugs and other contraband from entering the country.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff wrote in an opinion piece published last month in USA Today that "the most dangerous contraband is often contained in laptop computers or other electronic devices." Searches have uncovered "violent jihadist materials" as well as images of child pornography, he wrote.

With about 400 million travelers entering the country each year, "as a practical matter, travelers only go to secondary [for a more thorough examination] when there is some level of suspicion," Chertoff wrote. "Yet legislation locking in a particular standard for searches would have a dangerous, chilling effect as officers' often split-second assessments are second-guessed."

In April, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit in San Francisco upheld the government's power to conduct searches of an international traveler's laptop without suspicion of wrongdoing. The Customs policy can be viewed at: http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/travel/admissability/search_authority.ctt/search_authority.pdf.

[trocks69]

yipppppppppppeeeeeeeeeeeee

BIG BROTHER RUNS MY LIFE. ALL HAIL BIG BROTHER.

he is just looking out for what is good for the people. move along people there is nothing to see here. go ahead you sheep everything is ok.

yes we are free here in the good old USA but only to the extent that you imagine yourself to be. so which pill will it be the red or blue one

[thaibel]

yipppppppppppeeeeeeeeeeeee

BIG BROTHER RUNS MY LIFE. ALL HAIL BIG BROTHER.

he is just looking out for what is good for the people. move along people there is nothing to see here. go ahead you sheep everything is ok.

yes we are free here in the good old USA but only to the extent that you imagine yourself to be. so which pill will it be the red or blue one

Yeahhh, I feel for all the Americans and more for my American friends. I'm sure they're ashamed of all these things (this and the patriot act) the government does. I'm just waiting for the Europeans to do the same, but it won't be easy. The EU is not in control of all those things. Although Europe has also be attacked (remember Madrid and London), but the respect for the private live is still strong here.

[theRascalKing]

And this is *exactly* why I am flying out of Vancouver when I come back to Thailand in September. Sure it'll cost me a bit extra but it's worth it to avoid the fascist state that the USA has become.

[thaibel]

And this is *exactly* why I am flying out of Vancouver when I come back to Thailand in September. Sure it'll cost me a bit extra but it's worth it to avoid the fascist state that the USA has become.

Don't you think that using the word 'fascist' is to say at least a little bit strong? You should look it up in a dictionary.

[theRascalKing]

And this is *exactly* why I am flying out of Vancouver when I come back to Thailand in September. Sure it'll cost me a bit extra but it's worth it to avoid the fascist state that the USA has become.

Don't you think that using the word 'fascist' is to say at least a little bit strong? You should look it up in a dictionary.

No, I don't think it's strong at all. Do some reading on the draconian laws and regulations being passed in the USA. All in the name of keeping the citizens safe from the evil terrorists.

[zeusbheld]

And this is *exactly* why I am flying out of Vancouver when I come back to Thailand in September. Sure it'll cost me a bit extra but it's worth it to avoid the fascist state that the USA has become.

Don't you think that using the word 'fascist' is to say at least a little bit strong? You should look it up in a dictionary.

No, I don't think it's strong at all. Do some reading on the draconian laws and regulations being passed in the USA. All in the name of keeping the citizens safe from the evil terrorists.

do some reading on the draconian laws passed in nazi germany, mussolini's italy or stalin's USSR. if you think it's the same you should back off the crack pipe a bit.

[theRascalKing]

And this is *exactly* why I am flying out of Vancouver when I come back to Thailand in September. Sure it'll cost me a bit extra but it's worth it to avoid the fascist state that the USA has become.

Don't you think that using the word 'fascist' is to say at least a little bit strong? You should look it up in a dictionary.

No, I don't think it's strong at all. Do some reading on the draconian laws and regulations being passed in the USA. All in the name of keeping the citizens safe from the evil terrorists.

do some reading on the draconian laws passed in nazi germany, mussolini's italy or stalin's USSR. if you think it's the same you should back off the crack pipe a bit.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

Educate yourself.

[zeusbheld]

And this is *exactly* why I am flying out of Vancouver when I come back to Thailand in September. Sure it'll cost me a bit extra but it's worth it to avoid the fascist state that the USA has become.

Don't you think that using the word 'fascist' is to say at least a little bit strong? You should look it up in a dictionary.

No, I don't think it's strong at all. Do some reading on the draconian laws and regulations being passed in the USA. All in the name of keeping the citizens safe from the evil terrorists.

do some reading on the draconian laws passed in nazi germany, mussolini's italy or stalin's USSR. if you think it's the same you should back off the crack pipe a bit.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

Educate yourself.

even if your panicky, hyperbolic agitprop were 100 percent correct, it's still a long way from gulags. pity you can't get yourself sent to one so you'd figure out the difference.

[trocks69]

yipppppppppppeeeeeeeeeeeee

BIG BROTHER RUNS MY LIFE. ALL HAIL BIG BROTHER.

he is just looking out for what is good for the people. move along people there is nothing to see here. go ahead you sheep everything is ok.

yes we are free here in the good old USA but only to the extent that you imagine yourself to be. so which pill will it be the red or blue one

Yeahhh, I feel for all the Americans and more for my American friends. I'm sure they're ashamed of all these things (this and the patriot act) the government does. I'm just waiting for the Europeans to do the same, but it won't be easy. The EU is not in control of all those things. Although Europe has also be attacked (remember Madrid and London), but the respect for the private live is still strong here.

if you are refering to the train attack in madrid that was finially attrbuted to the basque seperatist. if you are refering to some other attack i dont know about sorry.

the one am thinking about killed around 200 people in a train they blew up. but it still amounts to the same. innocent people killed.

[zeusbheld]

if i'm not mistaken, air travel is not considered a 'right' in the US, sort of like driving, and therefore by choosing to fly you've already effectively agreed to a cavity search if they deem it necessary.

IMO this is not really about eliminating freedom and privacy. they've got all their spiffy 'anti-terrorist' wiretapping stuff for that.

no, their sinister motive is crystal clear.... they already started stealing your liquor at security, now they're giving notice that they're gonna steal your porn too.

[trocks69]

all these rules are for entering into the country when you come through customs. you have pretty much lost all civil rights. you also can not refuse anysort of search. if a cavity search is asked for and you refuse they will ex ray you. you have no choice period. once you are under suspision for what ever reason they want you are at their mercy. no rights no apeal till they let you go or ship you back to where you came from. with a american they will eventually let you in if they do not find anything on you that they can press charges against you on.

travel inside the usa is a little different and you have more rights but if they feel you are a threat but with out a valid reason they can still kick you out of the airport. which this has happened around the county on numerous occasions

viva la revaloution big brother lives. resistance is futile you will be assimilated. give up all free will and thought you will be told what to think and do from now on. dont worry poor 3rd world country a big brrother is on its way to you gift wraped in a pretty package of western consumerism. you to can be a borg citizen of the USA world market.

[thaibel]

yipppppppppppeeeeeeeeeeeee

BIG BROTHER RUNS MY LIFE. ALL HAIL BIG BROTHER.

he is just looking out for what is good for the people. move along people there is nothing to see here. go ahead you sheep everything is ok.

yes we are free here in the good old USA but only to the extent that you imagine yourself to be. so which pill will it be the red or blue one

Yeahhh, I feel for all the Americans and more for my American friends. I'm sure they're ashamed of all these things (this and the patriot act) the government does. I'm just waiting for the Europeans to do the same, but it won't be easy. The EU is not in control of all those things. Although Europe has also be attacked (remember Madrid and London), but the respect for the private live is still strong here.

if you are refering to the train attack in madrid that was finially attrbuted to the basque seperatist. if you are refering to some other attack i dont know about sorry.

the one am thinking about killed around 200 people in a train they blew up. but it still amounts to the same. innocent people killed.

If you did a little google before you put a statement, you would have found that the people who were convicted by the court were almost all from North-Africa and Islamitic, there was never found a link with the ETA (Basque separatistes).

I know that the attack was executed a few days before election and that the conservative party was pointing at the ETA as quilty. Everbody should know that this is not the style of the ETA. Normally they're triyng to eleminate high ranked military or police people or politicians. If they bomb a public place, they'll warn the police or a newspaper before, so it's possible they can evacuate the place. They killed some innocent people, but not on purpose and most of the time they excused themself with a public announcement if that happend. Not that I approve the actions the ETA do and did.

If you never heard of the bombing in London I'm sorry for you, but try to google again before saying the IRA is involved in it.

[GAV]

It is not the first time in recent history that the US govenment had ridden roughshod over its citizens and visitors. You only have to look back to the 1950's to see that.

The time has long gone for US citizens to take up arms against the Govenement, but it seems they have lost the taste of freedom. They have become too wrapped up in the consumer merry go round and are scared they wont be able to buy the next iPod upgrade if they revolt.

It keeps coming back to me. A certain NZ actor wins an award in Hollywood and makes a speach. I it he said. God defend New Zealand, God help America & thank God for Austrakia.

I think he got it right !!!