narak_mai Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Watching BBC world earlier it was reported that the police are responsible for the implementing/enforcing fire and safety standards in pubs/clubs. Tells you all you need to know - "what? no fire exit, here's a few thousand baht officer......" Of course some high ranking general mentioned changing this situation, so only time will tell if any improvements are made. lets hope so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ngairo Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 In many western countries the owners would be charged with manslughter.......not that it helps anything but having been drunk at Zantika before I now see how that chaos could happen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelis Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 I'm an architectural engineer myself and I'm always aware entering places with lots of people in it. You know; at least check out where the emergency exits are and fire extinguishers. I've more than once said out loud in Thailand: "If something goes wrong in here I'm royally f**ked". This doesn't mean you can prevent things like this from happening, but I think at least some lives could have been saved with proper regulation and, more importantly, proper enforcement of rules already existing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grezzzy_greer Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 What a dreadful tragedy. My heart goes out to those who were hurt or lost loved ones in the blaze. It is not reasonable to blame Thailand for this as if other countries are perfect. There are fire regulations in Thailand just as there are in other countries. The problem is that in many countries the regulations are flouted by uncaring and unthinking people. In Brisbane, Australia many years ago a nightclub fire took an awful toll in human life. The fire exits were there, they were not blocked...they were LOCKED! So don't say this only happens in Asia. It happens everywhere that greed and stupidity combine. We should note that there were THREE other exits from the building, but either they were not signposted (not surprised if thats the case) or they were simply in out of the way parts of the building. More to the point is the PMs question: Why were people letting off pyrotechnics in a confined space surrounded by combustible material like this? I dont think anyone would have thought to consider the soundproofing materials at all - but in this day and age there is no reason to use combustible materials for acoustics control - that is where the enforcement has to play a major role - and the police simply can't do it because they are not trained in building technology, nor do they have expertise to determine what is truly acceptable and what is dangerous. There needs to be a proper specialist division that does nothing but inspect and certify buildings, and which has the power to close down unsafe venues until fire regulations are met.... it really has to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelis Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 What a dreadful tragedy. My heart goes out to those who were hurt or lost loved ones in the blaze.It is not reasonable to blame Thailand for this as if other countries are perfect. There are fire regulations in Thailand just as there are in other countries. The problem is that in many countries the regulations are flouted by uncaring and unthinking people. In Brisbane, Australia many years ago a nightclub fire took an awful toll in human life. The fire exits were there, they were not blocked...they were LOCKED! So don't say this only happens in Asia. It happens everywhere that greed and stupidity combine. We should note that there were THREE other exits from the building, but either they were not signposted (not surprised if thats the case) or they were simply in out of the way parts of the building. More to the point is the PMs question: Why were people letting off pyrotechnics in a confined space surrounded by combustible material like this? I dont think anyone would have thought to consider the soundproofing materials at all - but in this day and age there is no reason to use combustible materials for acoustics control - that is where the enforcement has to play a major role - and the police simply can't do it because they are not trained in building technology, nor do they have expertise to determine what is truly acceptable and what is dangerous. There needs to be a proper specialist division that does nothing but inspect and certify buildings, and which has the power to close down unsafe venues until fire regulations are met.... it really has to be done. I'm not saying it can't happen anywhere else, it's just ******* annoying it has to happen in some country first before anything changes, although in the case of Thailand I doubt there will be lessons learnt and things will change. That being said, the new PM made some sensible remarks which is hopeful in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zencat Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 The Station nightclub fire with the rock band ?Great White? was the fourth-deadliest nightclub fire in U.S. history. And it was in Feb 2003 killing 100 people and injuring more than 200. Pyrotechnics used by the band ignited the inferno. The fire exits being locked brought it into the national news scene. No one could get out because all the doors were locked! Michael Derderian the club Co-owner went to prison in September 2006 for the fire, he gets out in October of 09. This can happen anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 What I find curious is that in none of the news reports I have seen so far, both local and foreign, is there any mention of who owns Santika. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 What I find curious is that in none of the news reports I have seen so far, both local and foreign, is there any mention of who owns Santika. IN the US after the Great White tragedy the owners were all over the media and punished for code violations. It hopefully shines a big light on the lack of safely codes or standards and the situation improves. I'm sure many people will be wanting to know where the exits are for now anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 What I find curious is that in none of the news reports I have seen so far, both local and foreign, is there any mention of who owns Santika. Interesting point, he/they will be dragged out for sure, I'd put 1000 baht on one of the partners is a policeman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whateverforever Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Really you can never be too careful in Thailand in any building be they shopping malls, bars, nightclubs or hotels. There is simply too much Mai Bphen Rai when it comes to safety and if you voice any concerns you are waved off as a silly over thinking Farang. Another horrendous example of slack laws is how you'll see people sitting on the top of trucks as 20 others are crammed in the back. You can get swindled into thinking this is a developed country when you go to Siam Paragon or The Emporium but the infrastructure just about every where other than the shopping mega centers is on the verge of collapse or ignition. For the most part Thailand is an accident waiting to happen. But as I said nightclubs are notorious for being fire hazards worldwide. That's why I chose to simply walk around Sukhumwit on NYE. My sympathies to those in the club. RIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLOS4me Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 What I find curious is that in none of the news reports I have seen so far, both local and foreign, is there any mention of who owns Santika. Found this over on ThaiVisa .com regarding the owner... Found this on the National News Bureau of Thailand... "Superintendent of Thong Lor Police Station Pol.Col.Suthin Sapphuang (ÊØ·Ô¹ ·ÃѾÂì¾èǧ) reported that he had requested for a business license from the Santika Pub owner Suwit Setsawat (ÊØÇÔ·Âì à ÈÉÊÇÑÊ´Ôì) who would be interrogated. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submissiv Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 From what i understand they could operate because there was a case in the court. The police had shut them down but since they waited for the court case (4-5 years) they could do business as usual :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 I'm an architectural engineer myself and I'm always aware entering places with lots of people in it. You know; at least check out where the emergency exits are and fire extinguishers. I've more than once said out loud in Thailand: "If something goes wrong in here I'm royally f**ked". This doesn't mean you can prevent things like this from happening, but I think at least some lives could have been saved with proper regulation and, more importantly, proper enforcement of rules already existing. this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanUsa Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 I guess you didn't bother to read what you quoted: "black leather" is quite a ways off from cheap crocs or assorted sidewalk rubber cheapo flip-flops. If you were in the same room I'm sure you would not even be alert enough to notice. :roll: I mentioned Soi 63 and all the clubs there, but that I would not go to Santika because they are so picky about shoes. I have a nice new pair of black leather open toed footwear. At Novotel club CM2 they had a simple option, I buy a pair of black socks from them and all is well, but not good enough for Santika. Lucky for my friends and I that Santika is soooo picky about footwear. Unless you are Brad Pitt or Robert Pattinson lookalike, wearing black socks with your Croc or rubber trekking slippers or open toe slippers is super ghetto! How could this not be in people common sense that if they plan to go partying in nice nightclubs, you dress at least decent! Do not dress like nana punters or kaosarn road backpackers, period.! Trying to bend the game they play, simply don't go, stay home or suggested beer bars. Sorry, off the topic here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanUsa Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Club Novotel makes Santika look like amateur night. They were very polite at Novotel and had a perfect solution to a common occurrence. Unlike some people, I'm not stupid enough to wear shorts out at night when going to nice clubs, but black leather footwear is appropriate (even open toed) at Hard Rock Cafe, as well as shorts. When HRC turns out to be full, plans change, simple as that, I go to a better location. Of course, if I go to my favorite restaurants at the top of State Tower "The Dome", I never where open toed anything. I mentioned Soi 63 and all the clubs there, but that I would not go to Santika because they are so picky about shoes. I have a nice new pair of black leather open toed footwear. At Novotel club CM2 they had a simple option, I buy a pair of black socks from them and all is well, but not good enough for Santika. Lucky for my friends and I that Santika is soooo picky about footwear. Unless you are Brad Pitt or Robert Pattinson lookalike, wearing black socks with your Croc or rubber trekking slippers or open toe slippers is super ghetto! How could this not be in people common sense that if they plan to go partying in nice nightclubs, you dress at least decent! Do not dress like nana punters or kaosarn road backpackers, period.! Trying to bend the game they play, simply don't go, stay home or suggested beer bars. Sorry, off the topic here. agree. Ive never quite understood the 'socks and sandles brigade' either. And i never understand the whole backpacker 'look' (complete with ever-so-obvious stupid bum bag). Ok. Back to topic I guess its not only his shoes but also his clothes to make him get banned . I think there were some guys wearing slippers but they wore long pants and they were allowed to go in nightclubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 You have to be pretty insensitive to persist in making posts about your footwear choices in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 You have to be pretty insensitive to persist in making posts about your footwear choices in this thread. Suprised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 not really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMatlock Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 You have to be pretty insensitive to persist in making posts about your footwear choices in this thread. Suprised? I guess not TOTALLY surprised... But you'd think people would have SLIGHTLY more respect that what they're showing. Lots of other places to talk about footwear and sock combinations on this website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Mike Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Really you can never be too careful in Thailand in any building be they shopping malls, bars, nightclubs or hotels. There is simply too much Mai Bphen Rai when it comes to safety and if you voice any concerns you are waved off as a silly over thinking Farang. Another horrendous example of slack laws is how you'll see people sitting on the top of trucks as 20 others are crammed in the back. You can get swindled into thinking this is a developed country when you go to Siam Paragon or The Emporium but the infrastructure just about every where other than the shopping mega centers is on the verge of collapse or ignition. For the most part Thailand is an accident waiting to happen. But as I said nightclubs are notorious for being fire hazards worldwide. That's why I chose to simply walk around Sukhumwit on NYE.My sympathies to those in the club. RIP. I'm sincerely impressed. Your comments are along the points I was trying to express in another post. There are so many points of topic that determine the status of a country, and a few big shopping malls don?t change the general status of moralities. You are exactly correct. This terrible tragedy didn't have to happen. And furthermore, I read in the British paper that mostly the deaths were younger girls which were pushed aside and trampled during the evacuation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 You have to be pretty insensitive to persist in making posts about your footwear choices in this thread. Suprised? no, but had hoped for better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 From the bangkokpost. Police to charge Santika ownerThe police planned to charge a major shareholder of Santika pub named Visuk Setsawad, better known as Hia Khao, for allowing people under 20 years of age to enter the venue. A fire broke out at the nightclub located in Bangkok's Thong Lo district when partygoers were celebrating the New Year's countdown. The fire left at least 61 dead and 243 injured. The police had interrogated 25 witnesses so far and had excluded arson in their investigations after knowing that the venue's insurance contact expired a long time ago. However, Hia Khao had yet to appear before the police. Forensic police could not identify 21 bodies yet. Relatives and friends of suspected victims can reach the forensic police at 02-381-8930 extension 7015. A Japanese tourist who was badly injured from the nightclub fire, Keiichi Wada, was still in a coma. Physicians at Chulalongkorn Hospital were supervising him closely after he drew much smoke into his lungs. And in the Nation just a moment ago: Thai police investigate pub in New Year infernoBangkok - Thai authorities on Friday were investigating the legal status of the Santika Pub where a fire broke out at a New Year's Eve party, killing at least 59 people and injuring more than 240. Police announced plans to bring charges against a major shareholder in the Santika, Visuk Setsawad, for permitting people under the drinking age of 20 to enter the pub which turned into a deadly inferno Thursday morning - New Year's Day. Hospitals on Friday had been able to identify 40 of the 59 victims of the fire, including one Singaporean, police and metropolitan authorities said. At least 51 of the injured were still in hospital Friday, including 12 foreigners from Australia, Belgium, Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Malaysia and Singapore, a spokesman at the Bangkok emergency centre said. Chulalongkorn Hospital performed emergency surgery on Japanese national Keiichi Wada, 25, to drain water from his abdomen, according to The Nation online news service. Wada suffered burns to 60 per cent of his body and was in a coma. Survivors of the tragedy said the fire started less than 30 minutes after midnight, shortly after a pyrotechnical display on the second floor of the Santika Pub which had billed its New Year's Eve bash as "Goodbye Santika," as the lease on the premises was due to expire on January 1. Police have not yet been able to contact the pub's owner, but a preliminary investigation has raised questions about the legal status of the pub's operations. An unidentified source at the Metropolitan Police Bureau told the Bangkok Post newspaper that Santika Pub, one of Bangkok's most popular hangouts for well-to-do young Thais and expatriates, had been registered as a "night-time food shop" instead of an entertainment venue, which required it to close at midnight. Deputy Police Commissioner-General Police General Jongrak Juthanon claimed Friday that the police had been opposed to the pub's operations but had been overruled by an injunction of the Administrative Court. The pub had only one main exit and one fire extinguisher, raising serious questions about the building's safety standards and those of other entertainment venues in the capital. Most of the casualties were caused by a mad rush to get out through the main door as the fire quickly spread through the pub, causing a blackout that added to the chaos. It took firefighters about two hours to get the fire under control Thursday morning, leaving the building gutted. I don't even know where to start..... I think they better put some people in custody before they flee across the border to some Cambodian Casino. I think it's time to clean up the whole club scene, allow for longer operating hours for real and safe entertainment venues. This way corruption will stop and the place will be safe to visit. This news is an outrage but I can't really say that I'm surprised and I'm sure it won't be the only case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 A Thai newspaper today had a horrific photograph of some of the bodies while they were still inside the building. Pretty much exactly how one would imagine it to be... I think it's the single most horrifying image I've seen in this life. Unbelievably tragic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 I don't even know where to start..... I think they better put some people in custody before they flee across the border to some Cambodian Casino. I think it's time to clean up the whole club scene, allow for longer operating hours for real and safe entertainment venues. This way corruption will stop and the place will be safe to visit. This news is an outrage but I can't really say that I'm surprised and I'm sure it won't be the only case. If this were the West, there would be reporters camped outside this guy's house, chasing him for comment and splashing his mug all over the news. I guess Hia Khao is now Ai Hia Khao. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCTreeMan Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 During my first year here I was taken on a tour of several office buildings on Silom Road by an Australian fire and building safety expert. They were all fire traps. And the one place in Bangkok he said he would never let his wife and children enter because the potential for disaster was so high was ... MBK. That's pretty scary and almost unbelievably, but with those escalators as probably the only way out, I can see what you mean. Is that what u mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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