Jewish RIGHT to the Land of Jerusalem

[beej]

If I remember right the only city were people of Asian origin number over 50 % of the population is Leicester and frankly why anyone would want to live there is beyond me anyway. :wink:

i don't think there's a city in the UK with an Asian population of anything near 50 % .... in the last census (2001) 90% ppl were white, less than 5% were Asian !!!

Thanks for making my point about all that immigration twaddle being out of proportion. :wink:

Still there are some cities were with a higher percentage of population of Asian origin...and Leicester happens to be the one with the highest if memory serves me right. Please don't make having to look the numbers up now...

Nope; Dewsbury in West Yorkshire has that title. Around 33% (to Leicester's 29.9)

One area of Dewsbury is 97-100% Muslim!

Glasgow is only about 0.9%. We need somewhere to buy cranberry jelly on Xmas day!!

My bad for being wrong and thanks for providing some numbers-based facts Haggis Muncher. :wink:

Btw. the Scottish Populace should emerge a lot fitter and leaner this Spring due to the pro-longed snow-shoveling season, me thinks.

Snow shovelling?

Those fucks just sit inside and drink when it snows!

[Hobbes]

If I remember right the only city were people of Asian origin number over 50 % of the population is Leicester and frankly why anyone would want to live there is beyond me anyway. :wink:

i don't think there's a city in the UK with an Asian population of anything near 50 % .... in the last census (2001) 90% ppl were white, less than 5% were Asian !!!

Thanks for making my point about all that immigration twaddle being out of proportion. :wink:

Still there are some cities were with a higher percentage of population of Asian origin...and Leicester happens to be the one with the highest if memory serves me right. Please don't make having to look the numbers up now...

Nope; Dewsbury in West Yorkshire has that title. Around 33% (to Leicester's 29.9)

One area of Dewsbury is 97-100% Muslim!

Glasgow is only about 0.9%. We need somewhere to buy cranberry jelly on Xmas day!!

My bad for being wrong and thanks for providing some numbers-based facts Haggis Muncher. :wink:

Btw. the Scottish Populace should emerge a lot fitter and leaner this Spring due to the pro-longed snow-shoveling season, me thinks.

Snow shovelling?

Those fucks just sit inside and drink when it snows!

And how do you think they re-supply? I haven't heard of any crates of beer or deep-fried Mars bars being air-dropped on Scottish homes, have you?

:twisted:

[Stramash]

If I remember right the only city were people of Asian origin number over 50 % of the population is Leicester and frankly why anyone would want to live there is beyond me anyway. :wink:

i don't think there's a city in the UK with an Asian population of anything near 50 % .... in the last census (2001) 90% ppl were white, less than 5% were Asian !!!

Thanks for making my point about all that immigration twaddle being out of proportion. :wink:

Still there are some cities were with a higher percentage of population of Asian origin...and Leicester happens to be the one with the highest if memory serves me right. Please don't make having to look the numbers up now...

Nope; Dewsbury in West Yorkshire has that title. Around 33% (to Leicester's 29.9)

One area of Dewsbury is 97-100% Muslim!

Glasgow is only about 0.9%. We need somewhere to buy cranberry jelly on Xmas day!!

My bad for being wrong and thanks for providing some numbers-based facts Haggis Muncher. :wink:

Btw. the Scottish Populace should emerge a lot fitter and leaner this Spring due to the pro-longed snow-shoveling season, me thinks.

Snow shovelling?

Those fucks just sit inside and drink when it snows!

And how do you think they re-supply? I haven't heard of any crates of beer or deep-fried Mars bars being air-dropped on Scottish homes, have you?

:twisted:

Ah don't you just love stereotypes?? Now just toddle off, annexe Poland and attempt genocide will you...

:evil:

[Hobbes]

If I remember right the only city were people of Asian origin number over 50 % of the population is Leicester and frankly why anyone would want to live there is beyond me anyway. :wink:

i don't think there's a city in the UK with an Asian population of anything near 50 % .... in the last census (2001) 90% ppl were white, less than 5% were Asian !!!

Thanks for making my point about all that immigration twaddle being out of proportion. :wink:

Still there are some cities were with a higher percentage of population of Asian origin...and Leicester happens to be the one with the highest if memory serves me right. Please don't make having to look the numbers up now...

Nope; Dewsbury in West Yorkshire has that title. Around 33% (to Leicester's 29.9)

One area of Dewsbury is 97-100% Muslim!

Glasgow is only about 0.9%. We need somewhere to buy cranberry jelly on Xmas day!!

My bad for being wrong and thanks for providing some numbers-based facts Haggis Muncher. :wink:

Btw. the Scottish Populace should emerge a lot fitter and leaner this Spring due to the pro-longed snow-shoveling season, me thinks.

Snow shovelling?

Those fucks just sit inside and drink when it snows!

And how do you think they re-supply? I haven't heard of any crates of beer or deep-fried Mars bars being air-dropped on Scottish homes, have you?

:twisted:

Ah don't you just love stereotypes?? Now just toddle off, annexe Poland and attempt genocide will you...

:evil:

Lighten up Dude...it's the weekend (and I'm all hot and sweaty, I think I will soon go and cool down in a pool somewhere...) . :wink:

Or is it your turn to shovel the snow this weekend? :?

[Stramash]

If I remember right the only city were people of Asian origin number over 50 % of the population is Leicester and frankly why anyone would want to live there is beyond me anyway. :wink:

i don't think there's a city in the UK with an Asian population of anything near 50 % .... in the last census (2001) 90% ppl were white, less than 5% were Asian !!!

Thanks for making my point about all that immigration twaddle being out of proportion. :wink:

Still there are some cities were with a higher percentage of population of Asian origin...and Leicester happens to be the one with the highest if memory serves me right. Please don't make having to look the numbers up now...

Nope; Dewsbury in West Yorkshire has that title. Around 33% (to Leicester's 29.9)

One area of Dewsbury is 97-100% Muslim!

Glasgow is only about 0.9%. We need somewhere to buy cranberry jelly on Xmas day!!

My bad for being wrong and thanks for providing some numbers-based facts Haggis Muncher. :wink:

Btw. the Scottish Populace should emerge a lot fitter and leaner this Spring due to the pro-longed snow-shoveling season, me thinks.

Snow shovelling?

Those fucks just sit inside and drink when it snows!

And how do you think they re-supply? I haven't heard of any crates of beer or deep-fried Mars bars being air-dropped on Scottish homes, have you?

:twisted:

Ah don't you just love stereotypes?? Now just toddle off, annexe Poland and attempt genocide will you...

:evil:

Lighten up Dude...it's the weekend (and I'm all hot and sweaty, I think I will soon go and cool down in a pool somewhere...) . :wink:

Or is it your turn to shovel the snow this weekend? :?

:wink: :wink:

damn those negative stereotypes.

No snow here just now, and anyway, my sang som from Kussy and Hube has just arrived so...

(and still haven't tried a deep fried mars bar!)

[vbroker]

Wow, those priest where really banging their doctrine into you when you were a little altar boy, weren't they? :shock:

:roll:

I was never an altar boy. The disgusting sexual reference wasn't lost on me, however, Bangkok Boy. Another Farang credit to his origin country....

This word "extremist" should be associated with....well....extremists: Islamic extremists, radicalized jihadists, al Qaeda, Taliban, Hamas and Muslim terrorists. In short, organizations that pursue suicidal terror operations. But it ain't PC to say that, is it? F*ck PC and f*ck the liberals that make that pathetic argument.

Ok, so death to the Israeli extremists!

after all, they kill thousands more people than the Palestinians do 8)

oh wait... Israeli's can't be terrorists, they're on our side!

That's your blind left wing ideology regurgitating itself. Wake up.......

Sadly, the only country in the world that could truly exert pressure on Israel to change policy radically is its most fervent supporter, financier and supplier of armaments.

Oh it's sooooooooooooooo sad. More rubbish.......

Why is it so rubbish?

Must EVERYTHING be explained to you? Fine:

Israel is the only functioning DEMOCRACY in the region. If the U.S. DIDN'T support it as fervently as it does, who would? Answer: NO ONE. Remember the UN resolution votes several years ago? The only (accurate and correct) objector was the U.S. when it vetoed the world's "objections" as regards Israel without demanding the Islamic terrorists and their governmental supporters stand down as well.

Are you denying that the US is Israel's biggest supporter?

Of course not. Smarten up.

But extreme Israeli settlers DO exist, whether you wish to admit it or not. Settlers' leaders calling for violence against Palestinians when Isreali forces evict them form illegal settlements do not, to me, show that they are reasonable or have any respect for life.

But they're not blowing themselves and as many Palestinians up as they can; are they? Never heard the term, "Actions speak louder than words?" Again: Smarten up.

Vbroker is right to one slanted sense, without armed controls available to protect both sides, there would be a Blood bath in one or both directions that would rival any of those in our lifetimes.

There's only one side concerned with destroying Israel and its existence rights instead of getting on tying to forge a peaceful co-existence.

:?: would Mr. Vbroker see that as a suitable result? I doubt it!

Of course he might take advantage of the activity sure to happen in the "Markets" :wink: :wink: Had to be a cynic in here someplace -"sorry"

The "suitable result" is Islamic terrorism needs to end. One way or the other.

[DANNO]

Vbroker is right to one slanted sense, without armed controls available to protect both sides, there would be a Blood bath in one or both directions that would rival any of those in our lifetimes.

There's only one side concerned with destroying Israel and its existence rights instead of getting on tying to forge a peaceful co-existence.

Perhaps with respect to the right to exist... but let's get real here both sides have honored that time tested method of an "eye for an eye". 62 years later and you cannot unravel this to who has the clean hands.

As you said : "smarten up!"

Without leverage on the arms and economics of both sides the is little chance for peaceful co-existence. What has held the peace beteewn Egypt and Israel? seriously how do you explain the maintenance of that - Peace?

[Hobbes]

rhubarb....rhubarb....rhubarb...

waffle...waffle....grumble....waffle....

smarten up!

Look, how about doing exactly that: smarten up (sadly, I know it's to tall an order :roll: ).

The one-dimensional views you bring to the table have FAILED to solve the issues surrounding peace in Palestine in the last six decades. And yet you claim we should smarten up?? :eh:

Btw. even if Israel was the only democracy in the region which of course it isn't, Turkey and even the PA have working democracies as the election of a Hamas government has shown :wink: , that is not a requirement to get Uncle Sam's full support. More often than not it's rather the opposite. The list of dictators that had the full support of successive US administrations is really to long to be swept under the carpet. Just to remind you, Lon Nol, Diem, Khmer Rouge, Saddam Hussein, Somoza to name but a few. So, democracy whilst a nice luxury to have is not a pre-requisite as to who one can talk to.

[drlovelife8]

I like this subject.

I might do my masters in a related topic.

Israel isn't going anywhere. Time to work with that if people want peace and a return to normal life for pallies.

Just like Tibet will never stop being part of China now. Time to work with that.

I don't say either is unquestionably right, just that it is time to go with it.

[Stramash]

from the perspective of this being a Thai website, this adds a topical angle to the whole Israel/Palestine debate;

The Thais working Israel's farms

By Jon Donnison

BBC News, Gaza

The beautiful moshav or communal farm at Netiv Haasara in southern Israel, right on the border with Gaza, is green, lush and fragrant with jasmine and orange blossom.

In the moshav's vast greenhouses they grow everything from cucumbers to coriander, peas to peppers.

The sounds and smells are pretty typical of Israel in springtime - except, that is, for the murmur of conversation in an unlikely language - Thai.

"Virtually all our workers here are Thai," says Roni Keidar who runs a seed production business on the moshav.

"We tried to get Israelis to do the work but it's too difficult. It's too hot for them in the greenhouses," she says.

"Too posh to pick?" I ask. "Maybe," Ms Keidar laughs.

The Israeli government says there are around 28,000 Thais working legally in Israel.

And with the farms located close to the border with Gaza, there is a risk from the rockets Palestinian militants fire into Israel.

Last month a Thai farm worker at Netiv Haasara became the first person in Israel in more than a year to be killed by a rocket fired by Palestinian militants in Gaza.

Cheap workforce

But for many it is a risk worth taking.

"I earn about a thousand dollars a month here," says 33-year-old Kai, who gives only his first name, as he picks coriander. "That's double what I could earn back home."

Kai has worked here for four and half years. He has six months to go on his five-year visa.

He is doing work that used to be done by another cheap workforce just down the road.

Netiv Haasara is right on the border with Gaza. Standing by the greenhouses you can literally touch the huge concrete wall that separates Israel from the Palestinian territory.

Less than a kilometre from Netiv Haasara is the Erez Crossing, the main checkpoint from Gaza into Israel.

These days just a trickle of people are allowed to cross.

Unemployed

But until the start of the second intifada, or Palestinian uprising, in 2000 when Israel tightened the border, thousands of Gazans used to travel daily through Erez to work on Israeli farms.

I meet one such Gazan next to his small house in Beit Hanoun.

The walls are riddled with bullet holes from Israel's offensive in Gaza just over a year ago.

Like more than 40% of Gazans, Khalil Zania is unemployed.

But for 17 years he helped keep bees and picked flowers on the moshav where Roni Keidar now has her farm.

"After the intifada they started using foreign workers and we had to stay home. It makes me feel sad. Palestinian workers were very good," he says.

Mr Zania says he still talks on the phone to some of the friends he met in Israel.

And Roni Keidar said her Gazan workers were "part of the family".

"We used to go to their weddings or birthday parties in Gaza. They would come and eat at our house," she says.

Although she says it's "crazy" to be using workers from halfway around the world when there is a huge unemployed workforce so close to home, she can see why the Palestinians are not allowed in.

"It's because of terrorism," she says, adding that when the borders were open, there were suicide attacks in cities such as Tel Aviv.

"It was much nicer to have Palestinian workers coming across. I wish it could change."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8597493.stm

[Who cares]

the jews of today have zero to do with jews of the bible, those jews make up like 5% of the jewish population, the whiter, more european jews, actually came to that religion in the 13th century i do believe,

[LU]

Actually the Khazars converted to Judaism in 710 AD under the reign of King Bulan.These khazars became the later white Askenazi jews. Arthur Koestler (who was jewish himself) proofed this in his excellent book "the 13th tribe: The Khazar Empire and its heritage".

There are no jews today, including myself, who can claim to be the progeny of the biblical patriarchs. The history is too muddled, and the bible is not a reliable book from a historical perspective. There are too many alterations, omissions, and interpolations in this book that blatantly contradict the archeological evidence found.

Edited February 2, 2011 by LU

[PiAnt]

Jews are tossers and Arabs are wankers.

Or is it the other way round?

Either way they're all just a load of monkey spankers.

[kaunitz]

Most recently I have been looking into this subject, something which I do not claim to know much about.

However I find the palestinions use of terroroism shameful, I recently foudn the following article and enjoyed the perspective taken by Prof. Khaleel Mohammed:

I am interested to hear what people think on this one.

The Quran confirms Jewish right to the Land and to Jerusalem

Extract from Frontpage Interview's with Prof. Khaleel Mohammed, Assistant Professor at the Department of Religious Studies at San Diego State University .

The Quran in Chapter 5: 20-21 states quite clearly: "Moses said to his people: 'O my people! Remember the bounty of God upon you when He bestowed prophets upon you , and made you kings and gave you that which had not been given to anyone before you amongst the nations. O my people! Enter the Holy Land which God has written for you, and do not turn tail, otherwise you will be losers.'"

The thrust of my analysis is where Moses says that the Holy Land is that which God has "written" for the Israelites. In both Jewish and Islamic understandings of the term "written", there is the meaning of finality, decisiveness and immutability. And so we have the Written Torah (unchangeable) and the Oral Torah (which represents change to suit times). And in the Quran we have "Written upon you is the fast"- to show that this is something that is decreed, and which none can change. So the simple fact is then, from a faith-based point of view: If God has "written" Israel for the people of Moses, who can change this?

When the Muslims entered that land in the seventh century, they were well aware of its rightful owners, and when they failed to act according to divine mandate (at least as perceived by followers of all Abrahamic faiths), they aided and abetted in a crime. And the present situation shows the fruits of that action wherein innocent Palestinians and Israelis are being killed on a daily basis.

I also draw your attention to the fact that the medieval exegetes of Quran--without any exception known to me--recognized Israel as belonging to the Jews, their birthright given to them. Indeed, two of Islam's most famous exegetes explained "written" from Quran 5:21 thus:

Ibn Kathir (d. 774/1373) said: ?That which God has written for you? i.e. That which God has promised to you by the words of your father Israel that it is the inheritance of those among you who believe? . Muhammad al-Shawkani (d. 1250/1834) interprets Kataba to mean ?that which God has allotted and predestined for you in His primordial knowledge, deeming it as a place of residence for you? (1992, 2:41 ).

The idea that Israel does not belong to the Jews is a modern one, probably based on the Mideast rejection of European colonialism etc, but certainly not having anything to do with the Quran. The unfortunate fact is that most Muslims do NOT read the Quran and interpret it on the basis of its own words; rather they let imams and preachers do that for them.

How did the Jews lose their right to live in the Holy Land ? All reliable reports show that it was by the looting and burning that followed from 70-135 C.E. When the Muslims entered the place in 638, liberating it from the Byzantines, they knew full well to whom it rightfully belonged. The later Muslim occupation and building a mosque on the site of the Temple was something that was not sanctioned by The Qur?an. How honest is contemporary Islam with this? Given the situation in the Middle East , politiking etc stands in the way of honesty.

As most of the land of nowaday's Israel was taken by force, Israel does not have the "right" to have it. There was the Balfour declaration and the Sykes-Pikot agreement and with all, the Arabs, funneled by some stupids, thought that this should not be implemented. It left them with significantly less land as they would have had before. as before and after, Arab intentions turned out to be not even worth the money spent on meetings they had. Sh*te!

On the other hand, Israelis occupying Eastern Jerusalem homes and evicting inhabitants is a shame and only can go on dure to the fact that USA never will oppose as they are corrupted by - Jewish money! I personally saw commemoration signs on homes and official buildings that praise funders from USA - and all this in officially Arab area!

Whatever! With all the troubles that we have right now in the world, Israel will never ever get the importance in the world it claimed before. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya (mind you, you stupid "revolutionaries"), maybe Syria (US is going for it although 500,000 barrels per jear is not a big deal)...

[kaunitz]

Most recently I have been looking into this subject, something which I do not claim to know much about.

However I find the palestinions use of terroroism shameful, I recently foudn the following article and enjoyed the perspective taken by Prof. Khaleel Mohammed:

I am interested to hear what people think on this one.

The Quran confirms Jewish right to the Land and to Jerusalem

Extract from Frontpage Interview's with Prof. Khaleel Mohammed, Assistant Professor at the Department of Religious Studies at San Diego State University .

The Quran in Chapter 5: 20-21 states quite clearly: "Moses said to his people: 'O my people! Remember the bounty of God upon you when He bestowed prophets upon you , and made you kings and gave you that which had not been given to anyone before you amongst the nations. O my people! Enter the Holy Land which God has written for you, and do not turn tail, otherwise you will be losers.'"

The thrust of my analysis is where Moses says that the Holy Land is that which God has "written" for the Israelites. In both Jewish and Islamic understandings of the term "written", there is the meaning of finality, decisiveness and immutability. And so we have the Written Torah (unchangeable) and the Oral Torah (which represents change to suit times). And in the Quran we have "Written upon you is the fast"- to show that this is something that is decreed, and which none can change. So the simple fact is then, from a faith-based point of view: If God has "written" Israel for the people of Moses, who can change this?

When the Muslims entered that land in the seventh century, they were well aware of its rightful owners, and when they failed to act according to divine mandate (at least as perceived by followers of all Abrahamic faiths), they aided and abetted in a crime. And the present situation shows the fruits of that action wherein innocent Palestinians and Israelis are being killed on a daily basis.

I also draw your attention to the fact that the medieval exegetes of Quran--without any exception known to me--recognized Israel as belonging to the Jews, their birthright given to them. Indeed, two of Islam's most famous exegetes explained "written" from Quran 5:21 thus:

Ibn Kathir (d. 774/1373) said: ?That which God has written for you? i.e. That which God has promised to you by the words of your father Israel that it is the inheritance of those among you who believe? . Muhammad al-Shawkani (d. 1250/1834) interprets Kataba to mean ?that which God has allotted and predestined for you in His primordial knowledge, deeming it as a place of residence for you? (1992, 2:41 ).

The idea that Israel does not belong to the Jews is a modern one, probably based on the Mideast rejection of European colonialism etc, but certainly not having anything to do with the Quran. The unfortunate fact is that most Muslims do NOT read the Quran and interpret it on the basis of its own words; rather they let imams and preachers do that for them.

How did the Jews lose their right to live in the Holy Land ? All reliable reports show that it was by the looting and burning that followed from 70-135 C.E. When the Muslims entered the place in 638, liberating it from the Byzantines, they knew full well to whom it rightfully belonged. The later Muslim occupation and building a mosque on the site of the Temple was something that was not sanctioned by The Qur?an. How honest is contemporary Islam with this? Given the situation in the Middle East , politiking etc stands in the way of honesty.

And so on, and so on.

Like the Austrians who lost their empire, Jews, Israelis and whatever you might call them, lost the right ton be in some area due to military facts. Full Stop!

Now, there is a state called Israel, consisiting of a good part of Jews and a minority of Arabs who will grow out the Jews by approx. 25 years. A bit the same as Central European countries and the Turks. Solutions have to be found by politicians, not by the riots!

[Bigmike180]

Might make right. If you can't back it up you don't deserve anything. What America wants we take.We don't ask.

[Stramash]

Might make right. If you can't back it up you don't deserve anything. What America wants we take.We don't ask.

And that attitude is why 90% of the world think you are wankers and why we are laughing as your country slowly imploded.

First secession in USA by 2040 max