iBatch Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 One thing that I don't understand is why do cultural relativists have to kill any point for the sake of political correctness.This is a cultural observation very specific to Thai culture. YES, every culture has mooches, some more than others. There are different kind of mooches within one group. When someone makes a cultural observation he/she is not saying ALL ____ people are this. Just enough to make it noticeable. Sure there are plenty of counter examples, but they don't disprove that this phenomenon exists. I'll use my own culture as an example... Russians drink vodka, often in excess. Not all Russians drink, Not all drink vodka some like Rum Not all drink in excess Not only Russian drink vodka, most Slavic people love to drink. There will always be one dude who will say "hey MAN, I know this one Russian guy never had a drink. Good for him good for you. Now what's your point?" It neither disproves that Russians drink nor provides any solid proof that my statement is not true. If I say Russians are cannibalistic, you may have an easier time disproving my point. Someone else will say "There are drunks all over the world, the Irish are infamous for benders"... Very good point, there's a chance that the Slavic people may have Irish ancestry. Anyway. The point was Thai moms, sisters and girlfriends spoil their sons, brothers, and boyfriends. Some of those men become life long mooches. Some grow up to be great guys. Not all Thai ladies spoil their men. This does not stop this from being an observable cultural phenomenon. Flipping PC people make me rant at @ 8am Ew! i never know ya this grumpy! no way am going to date ya :blaugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalcat Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Most stereotypes are true to some extent. It takes an intelligent person not to impose that label on all members of a group. Hence, one would feel like an idiot having met a member of that group that doesn't fit the mold. The phenomenon that scares me is that people are too afraid to stand up and speak their mind for the fear of being labeled a bigot. This applies to 2 situations in particular. 1. I find female circumcision appalling... now it can be a cultural thing that have been in practice for 1000 years, i still feel its a violation of basic human rights. 2. If I am ignorant let me speak my mind in the case that you may enlighten me. There has to be a balance between hate speeches and the sterility of political correctness. Your point is completely valid. I have no counter arguments that we have to have the devils advocate. My rant is just that, a rant. My next one will be about (some) Thai hotels leaving the TP in the living room rather than having the roll in the bathroom where it actually serves a purpose. Here's my stereotype of the day. (Most) slightly cranky programmers like to rant in forums early in the morning. I find that true at least for myself. *_^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalcat Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Ew! i never ya this grumpy! no way am going to date ya :blaugh: Wait, you weren't just going to use me for awesome sex and throw me away? Where does this dating thing come into the equation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBatch Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Ew! i never ya this grumpy! no way am going to date ya :blaugh: Wait, you weren't just going to use me for awesome sex and throw me away? Where does this dating thing come into the equation? shhhhh.. keep ya rant and be grumpy.. dun turn me on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeMarc Posted August 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Most stereotypes are true to some extent. It takes an intelligent person not to impose that label on all members of a group. Hence, one would feel like an idiot having met a member of that group that doesn't fit the mold. The phenomenon that scares me is that people are too afraid to stand up and speak their mind for the fear of being labeled a bigot. This applies to 2 situations in particular. 1. I find female circumcision appalling... now it can be a cultural thing that have been in practice for 1000 years, i still feel its a violation of basic human rights. 2. If I am ignorant let me speak my mind in the case that you may enlighten me. There has to be a balance between hate speeches and the sterility of political correctness. Your point is completely valid. I have no counter arguments that we have to have the devils advocate. My rant is just that, a rant. My next one will be about (some) Thai hotels leaving the TP in the living room rather than having the roll in the bathroom where it actually serves a purpose. Here's my stereotype of the day. (Most) slightly cranky programmers like to rant in forums early in the morning. I find that true at least for myself. *_^ thank god u dont drink coffee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodKarma Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 One thing that I don't understand is why do cultural relativists have to kill any point for the sake of political correctness When someone makes a cultural observation he/she is not saying ALL ____ people are this. Vlad first of all your opinions are respected. I'm not sure if that dude that your talking about is me..but I will be him if it's ok with you... I personally don't profess to defend all thai males or females I cannot do that im not thai. but I can bring up my personal observations and experiences without throwing a label on it. they are just that my experiences that happend to me does that make it a fact that all thai males are productive nope but like I said in my previous post you may want to re-read my post a couple more times...there quit a few productive thai males look harder. this doesn't kill your point or make my point mood it puts it all in perspective points or examples brought up just as the start of the thread says are examples and experiences. thats why I said be careful...I don't want to play with words but the title of the forum says are thai guys too molleycoodled not some but all... politically correct me if im wrong..these things in threads tend to turn into a generalization that all are this way....Pmarc gave examples which is fair enough dude you are from NYC you know their is always a 1001 stories in the naked city. Anyway. The point was Thai moms, sisters and girlfriends spoil their sons, brothers, and boyfriends. Some of those men become life long mooches. Some grow up to be great guys. Not all Thai ladies spoil their men. This does not stop this from being an observable cultural phenomenon they might maybe they do but you have to understand you cannot come to the east with a western frame of mind and expect things to happen as it does in the west eastern societies are very rigid once you are in a class structure its not as easy to diverge out of it as it is back home I don't have a whole page to explain this google it. nobodys labeling anyone a bigot just speaking aobut personal experiences. by all means young man rumble young man rumble..speak your mind...don't hold back.. Pmarc runs his own business I get where he's coming from I completely get it. anyway vlad enjoy your friday guy..do you want me to send you some viagra ice cream or something to cool ya off...or do you want to take the beer option :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalcat Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 thank god u dont drink coffee. Let me tell you its a scary sight. Coffee makes me hyper and slightly happy... for about 2 hours. Then I crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalcat Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Vlad first of all your opinions are respected. See, here you go with your cultural relativity and happy positive guy vibe... I will have none of that, Thank you very much!!! I am belligerent, and often provoke sensitive topics to elicit a response. Why respect anything I say? I'm not sure if that dude that your talking about is me..but I will be him if it's ok with you... Nope your comment was well thought out, made sence as much as I would like to discredit you, you'd have enough wits to defend yourself... it's actually this that set me off: For me it's not about Thai or not Thai.Men or Women I saw many farang are likely to be the same with those you explained. Grow up is something that happen or don't. It's individual. Instead of that whole rant I should have just wrote "No **** Sherlock" but I have L.I.C. (low impulse control) this early in the morning. do you want me to send you some viagra ice cream or something to cool ya off...or do you want to take the beer option :wink: I'll take the icecream I'll PM you my addy in Bsngkok, hope it comes in mint chocolate chip and you have a ton of dry ice stashed somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Don't mess with Vlad before 10:00 am!!! Yeah baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBatch Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Don't mess with Vlad before 10:00 am!!! Yeah baby! now is 10:21 AM YAY!!!!!!!!! Cant wait to see whos gonna be DOWN :twisted: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodKarma Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Nope your comment was well thought out, made sence as much as I would like to discredit you, you'd have enough wits to defend yourself... it's actually this that set me off: Quote: For me it's not about Thai or not Thai. Men or Women I saw many farang are likely to be the same with those you explained. Grow up is something that happen or don't. It's individual very,very interesting my dear watson..so wouldn't that be dudette? not dude..ok if you say so.... hmmm... See, here you go with your cultural relativity and happy positive guy vibe... I will have none of that, Thank you very much!!! I am belligerent, and often provoke topics to elicit a response. Why respect anything I say? cause I am a happy positive vibe kinda guy... I know that postive perspective drives people up the wall doesn't it. that is why it's all goodkarmalicious 8) Nope your comment was well thought out, made sence as much as I would like to discredit you, you'd have enough wits to defend yourself... it's actually this that set me off: first of all thanks...not a defense posture here... that is only a stance if what you said you didn't believe in what you said in the first place. the east and west is very different in a lot of ways. p.s. the ice cream is on it's way...and dude if it is the coffee im with Pmarc no more coffee for you this morning...please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin_2 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 For me it's not about Thai or not Thai.Men or Women I saw many farang are likely to be the same with those you explained. Grow up is something that happen or don't. It's individual. it is about Thai or not Thai in this example. boys are not mollycoddled in the States to this degree.. Not unless they are Thai kids, that is. I was told that once I left for college at age 18 I was always welcome to visit for as long as I wanted but if I moved back in then I was expected to pay rent. And this sounded fair to me. Not because they needed the money but because it was about growing up and M+D knew it was important to have experience supporting oneself. They were right, too. that said. I wish my gf would mollycoddle me a bit. also, I kind of like it that women do everything around here (in Thailand). I much prefer engaging with them than thai males. My parents did the same thing. With the exception of school breaks, which went for months, I would have to pay rent if I wanted to live with them. My parents didn't need the money and would also love to have me living close by if not in the same house as them, but after finishing college it was agreed that all the "kids" were then adults. My sister did it for about a year I'd say, and was paying $500 a month to my parents...again, the money was not the issue. The issue was the entire idea of responsibility. I'll do the same thing with my kids when the time comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoBeIt Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 thought - if the Yanks changed the name of French fries to Freedom fries, what did they change the name of French maids outfits to?? :? They were born to change things... lol ... (Hi Dan! How are you today? :twisted: ) Ps. Iain.. when did you change your name to "Im_A_Bitch" ? Thai girls submissive always pleasing? no way isnt that the reason why we like them so much Women spoils the man, and guys dont like this? O please as i said, that is why farang like Thai women, U have this type of confort over generations then Farangs too will be lazy Is that the reason why Farangs like us so much? I though because we know how to cook good food.. :roll: ---------------------------------------------------------------- From what I see.. When Thai or Asian kids tried to walk and then they fell down.. Mother ran to them and tried to help them to stand.. When Western kids tried to walk and then they fell down.. Mother stood there and told them "Get up an try again, sweeties.. you can do it" Somewhere is lying in the culture and how the society builded up.... I think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English_Bob Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 My Dad took money from me for rent from my very first paycheck at the age of 14. He would send me out during summer holidays to find work in factories, shops and warehouses every year. Whenever I brought home any money, he would check my payslip and deduct 1/3. I want to believe he did this to teach me the value of money and respect for it... but I suspect he was a cheap bastard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damnam1 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Guess we all reap the harvest we have sown. Children need to fall down and get up, they are supposed to fall into the mud and burn their hands on a hot plate, as they wont believe their parents, but only from experience. When I travel upcountry Thailand and I see that even the youngest boys and girls are supposed/obliged to help their parents at the food markets or wherever, it might probably be a picturesque theme for a photo, but the reality such behind often carries the name of sheer poverty. At that age I cant see much of a difference in behaviour of young thai girls and boys (talking about the majority in Thailand - ie. poorer families working as farmers and such). But I well see the point, that a lot of thai male twens prefer to hang around thinking that money comes from their sisters farang boyfriend or husband and they feel the urgent need to retire from work as soon as sister has managed to find a foreign gold mine and keep the whole family alive. A friend of mine has a big dive shop down south in Phuket since 30 years. When I went to his place on sunday afternoons, he was always sitting on his terrace working out the dive plans for the coming week. Five farang dive instructors working for hours. Inside the house, in front of the TV, on the couch and on the floor were the family members - all having a nap. From time to time two or three of the male family members got up to get themselves a drink without asking if any of the dive instructors would like to have a glass of water or if they could help or assist them, although they are all involved into his dive business and earn money.. I was amused a first sight to watch that peaceful snoring scene, and asking my friend about this he told me that he has given up asking them to do more than necessary. He said that he tried to, but all he got in return, was incomprehension and grumpy feedbacks that heavily disturbed the family peace. At a certain point of some thai males life there is a probably a point when they grasp that lazyness pays off rather than having their own careers and social competence aint worth a dime. If it was common and well accepted in every family in every country around the world that a basic school education takes at least nine years plus professional education another three years, getting a masters degree at university takes 18 bloody years of hard work, then career chances will be better - then every child would be able to understand, that learning defintely pays off. Education and proper socialisation is the key, but if thai women support their families to the maximum, there will always be some guys riding the gravy train and let others do the work for them. Learning how to say NO is difficult as it causes conflicts. Conflicts are hard to bear for many thai people. So smiling and saying nothing to those lazy bums at all will not cause thai women lose their face and so they rather choose the easy way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakeGeneve Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 My Dad took money from me for rent from my very first paycheck at the age of 14. He would send me out during summer holidays to find work in factories, shops and warehouses every year. Whenever I brought home any money, he would check my payslip and deduct 1/3.. Money for trauma counselling from being a father perhaps? My mum could invoice me for quite a bit given some of the crazy things I did.... :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyphil247 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 I want to believe he did this to teach me the value of money and respect for it... Or it was just drinking money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyphil247 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 I never paid any rent or board when I lived with mum and dad, and I think in most Italian families around the world, the kids rarely pay for anything when they stay at home. My parents even bought me my first car, worth $8,000 (in 1991) At the time I didn't feel spoilt, because they bought my 2 older sisters their first car as well. Yeah, they spent a little more on me, but I was the only boy, lol Looking back, I'm grateful for everything they did for me, and yes I now think I was spoilt. My parents were never rich, middle class at best. But they gave as much as they could to their children. Even now, in their pension years, my sisters and I will always get a nice Christmas gift ($$$). I know that it's important to teach your children the value of money, but I don't think I'll ever ask for any money from my son or any other children we might have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English_Bob Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 My parents always took cash from my older sister and I. But my younger sister had a pretty easy ride. I turned out to be the most independent. I've never been given any money, nor asked for loans, while both my sisters needed bailing out occasionally. Now my Dad and I live in Thailand. He gives me money for birthdays and Christmas, and I buy him a present that usually costs about the same as he give me. Last Christmas I joked that it was getting harder to think of cool presents for him and I might start giving him his cash back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANNO Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 My parents always took cash from my older sister and I. But my younger sister had a pretty easy ride.I turned out to be the most independent. I've never been given any money, nor asked for loans, while both my sisters needed bailing out occasionally. Now my Dad and I live in Thailand. He gives me money for birthdays and Christmas, and I buy him a present that usually costs about the same as he give me. Last Christmas I joked that it was getting harder to think of cool presents for him and I might start giving him his cash back. dave ...didn't you guys take anice trip togeather? Zip - lines ---maybe not a present --- nice thing to do as a "payback" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English_Bob Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 dave ...didn't you guys take anice trip togeather? Zip - lines ---maybe not a present --- nice thing to do as a "payback" Yep - and next week my family will come to Thailand and we're all going to Chiang Mai and Pai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalcat Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 dave ...didn't you guys take anice trip togeather? Zip - lines ---maybe not a present --- nice thing to do as a "payback" Yep - and next week my family will come to Thailand and we're all going to Chiang Mai and Pai. how olds yr younger sister? :twisted: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 dave ...didn't you guys take anice trip togeather? Zip - lines ---maybe not a present --- nice thing to do as a "payback" Yep - and next week my family will come to Thailand and we're all going to Chiang Mai and Pai. how olds yr younger sister? :twisted: ...and have a close look at her hair line... :twisted: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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