Bangkok Mar 12-14

[beej]

So when is the election scheduled for?

[zeusbheld]

f*cking hell, its like Nikolas Bentner scoring an home goal!

Did you also meet me in person, I guess I'm black or something?

i haven't met you in person (but you wouldn't have recognized me) but i have it on good authority that you're an albino pygmy talking bang kaew dog.

anyone have any idea where this "important location" the reds are planning to move to is? supposed to be about 20km from Phan Fa Lilat bridge.

can anyone who reads/speaks Thai comment on Newin's shift back toward the Thaksin crowd?

boots-on-the-ground-wise, i took a walk around Lad Prao Big C friday. interesting that Red Channel and UDD HQ doesn't rate as one of the 'places to avoid' according to the Post, but i think they may be right. not much happening there, aside from illegally parked black vans here and there and lots of red shirt souvenirs for sale. gf has been working in the vicinity of the actual protesters and they're a cheerful lot and not at all intent on violence according to her, but a) this "movement" has a lot of separate leaders, and it only takes a few dipshits.

lastly, they haven't imperiled the food supply yet, 7/11 still has ham and cheese.

[zeusbheld]

Dissolve the House can damage TH 's image and even takes more time to recover the economic and lose foreign investor confidence/reliable as many boostsing projects which just started have to be hold/pending... I heard a comment from business man said this morning that holding demonstrations for couple weeks is lose less than dissolve the house.

What do you think ?

hard to see how (non-violently) the reds can put enough pressure on the gov't to dissolve the house, but if it were to happen, i don't think it's all that damaging. the stuff that is damaging to Thailand's image would be more stuff like seizing airports or threatening to blow up gas tanker trucks. an out and out coup would be a big problem too, but that seems unlikely.

no violence, no airports, no (major) problem internationally. protest movements are... and should be... a part of any democracy real or imagined. if dissolving governments and calling elections were a problem the UK would be looked on rather poorly..... oh, wait.

[bigKus]

non-violent protest seems is not what big boss wanted to see. But since Seh. Deang and Chawalit been watching from Gov., violence would not easy happen and the weapons have been found and seized already what can they do.

One more thing, IMO, UDD chose wrong time to demon as at the mo TH people (especially living in BKK) are sick of protest and their kids going to have the final exam then summer holidays which supposed to be glory festiva season but .. see? they have to hang around at home eat ham and cheese from 7-11

:x whae !

[Crustyjuggler]

lastly, they haven't imperiled the food supply yet, 7/11 still has ham and cheese.

I'f the cheese supply stops i will start bashing indiscriminately... I've just ripped a table leg off and already pressed a lovely creamy white shirt.

Whose with me??

[Crustyjuggler]

non-violent protest seems is not what big boss wanted to see. But since Seh. Deang and Chawalit been watching from Gov., violence would not easy happen and the weapons have been found and seized already what can they do.

One more thing, IMO, UDD chose wrong time to demon as at the mo TH people (especially living in BKK) are sick of protest and their kids going to have the final exam then summer holidays which supposed to be glory festiva season but .. see? they have to hang around at home eat ham and cheese from 7-11

:x whae !

You can still buy a lighter, piece of rag and a bottle of spirits from 7/11 so weapons are plentiful if needed....

You talk about BKK people like no one else exists Kus, maybe that is the bigger problem. I don't like this red movement as much as the next person but i also don't like how the reds seemed to be regarded as pests/low and how Bangkok separates itself from the rest of the population. These people are still Thai...

[bigKus]

non-violent protest seems is not what big boss wanted to see. But since Seh. Deang and Chawalit been watching from Gov., violence would not easy happen and the weapons have been found and seized already what can they do.

One more thing, IMO, UDD chose wrong time to demon as at the mo TH people (especially living in BKK) are sick of protest and their kids going to have the final exam then summer holidays which supposed to be glory festiva season but .. see? they have to hang around at home eat ham and cheese from 7-11

:x whae !

You can still buy a lighter, piece of rag and a bottle of spirits from 7/11 so weapons are plentiful if needed....

You talk about BKK people like no one else exists Kus, maybe that is the bigger problem. I don't like this red movement as much as the next person but i also don't like how the reds seemed to be regarded as pests/low and how Bangkok separates itself from the rest of the population. These people are still Thai...

if you bring those stuff into demon area you would be checked and taken away.

I talk BKKians just because the event is hold in BKK which inevitably being affected

[Admin_2]

non-violent protest seems is not what big boss wanted to see. But since Seh. Deang and Chawalit been watching from Gov., violence would not easy happen and the weapons have been found and seized already what can they do.

One more thing, IMO, UDD chose wrong time to demon as at the mo TH people (especially living in BKK) are sick of protest and their kids going to have the final exam then summer holidays which supposed to be glory festiva season but .. see? they have to hang around at home eat ham and cheese from 7-11

:x whae !

You can still buy a lighter, piece of rag and a bottle of spirits from 7/11 so weapons are plentiful if needed....

You talk about BKK people like no one else exists Kus, maybe that is the bigger problem. I don't like this red movement as much as the next person but i also don't like how the reds seemed to be regarded as pests/low and how Bangkok separates itself from the rest of the population. These people are still Thai...

Good point. I'm not on one side or the other, but the way the elitists put down the red shirts is close to the point of calling them animals.

Thailand has to accept what Thailand is at the moment before moving forward. The majority of Thailand thinks one way, yet money has a lot of power and wants to move it in another direction.

It really is Bangkok against the north...the minority versus the majority.

[Chatty]

non-violent protest seems is not what big boss wanted to see. But since Seh. Deang and Chawalit been watching from Gov., violence would not easy happen and the weapons have been found and seized already what can they do.

One more thing, IMO, UDD chose wrong time to demon as at the mo TH people (especially living in BKK) are sick of protest and their kids going to have the final exam then summer holidays which supposed to be glory festiva season but .. see? they have to hang around at home eat ham and cheese from 7-11

:x whae !

You can still buy a lighter, piece of rag and a bottle of spirits from 7/11 so weapons are plentiful if needed....

You talk about BKK people like no one else exists Kus, maybe that is the bigger problem. I don't like this red movement as much as the next person but i also don't like how the reds seemed to be regarded as pests/low and how Bangkok separates itself from the rest of the population. These people are still Thai...

if you bring those stuff into demon area you would be checked and taken away.

I talk BKKians just because the event is hold in BKK which inevitably being affected

Guys, as I'm half BKKian and half Issarn born and raise here. I don't thin Bangkokian think ppl from up countries are low. If that they wouldn't welcome my mom.

People who live in Bangkok are not only Bangkokians, I think population of real Bangkokian are less than people from other province and foreigners. I don't think they judge who are "low" people from the place they were born, but it's from behavior. If you watch red TV. you will hear some think bad and "low" thoughts. Their criticism doesn't make sense. Anyway, their thought come from what they are believing. and it's their right. They have right to protest if it's peaceful one.

From lesson that we "Bangkokian" got last year, sure, they are unwelcome to us (non red shirts, no matter color we wear) we scared.

These are their master pieces. Please imagine if you are near by how do you feel?? Last year they kills innocence people in Nang laung. anyway, Bangkokians this time just be "patient" just let them do but prepare to protect ourselves and our properties.

[Admin_2]

Guys, as I'm half BKKian and half Issarn born and raise here. I don't thin Bangkokian think ppl from up countries are low.

I really disagree. When hiso Thais ask if I have a gf they smile and say great. Then they ask where she is from and I say Isaan, usually the demeanor changes. I've even had some people get sour faces in disgust and ask me "Why? Why do you like a girl from Isaan?" I tell them she has a uni degree and is a good person, but no...it doesn't work.

If you say she is from Bangkok, you don't get that sort of response. Bangkokians usually think that upcountry people are low from my experience.

[bigKus]

non-violent protest seems is not what big boss wanted to see. But since Seh. Deang and Chawalit been watching from Gov., violence would not easy happen and the weapons have been found and seized already what can they do.

One more thing, IMO, UDD chose wrong time to demon as at the mo TH people (especially living in BKK) are sick of protest and their kids going to have the final exam then summer holidays which supposed to be glory festiva season but .. see? they have to hang around at home eat ham and cheese from 7-11

:x whae !

You can still buy a lighter, piece of rag and a bottle of spirits from 7/11 so weapons are plentiful if needed....

You talk about BKK people like no one else exists Kus, maybe that is the bigger problem. I don't like this red movement as much as the next person but i also don't like how the reds seemed to be regarded as pests/low and how Bangkok separates itself from the rest of the population. These people are still Thai...

Good point. I'm not on one side or the other, but the way the elitists put down the red shirts is close to the point of calling them animals.

Thailand has to accept what Thailand is at the moment before moving forward. The majority of Thailand thinks one way, yet money has a lot of power and wants to move it in another direction.

It really is Bangkok against the north...the minority versus the majority.

I consider what is in red you said a provacative which possibly leads offend. The fact is most of thai people dont believe anymore that red shirts are now fight for demorcracy but for one certain person. Dont forget that red shirts are not majority. This conflict is not Bangkokian against north or Isarn but just a group of people from North and Isarn.

[Chatty]

Guys, as I'm half BKKian and half Issarn born and raise here. I don't thin Bangkokian think ppl from up countries are low.

I really disagree. When hiso Thais ask if I have a gf they smile and say great. Then they ask where she is from and I say Isaan, usually the demeanor changes. I've even had some people get sour faces in disgust and ask me "Why? Why do you like a girl from Isaan?" I tell them she has a uni degree and is a good person, but no...it doesn't work.

If you say she is from Bangkok, you don't get that sort of response. Bangkokians usually think that upcountry people are low from my experience.

I have no idea that the people you have met... but I'm around with people who are in BKK, from upcountry, from other country, rich people, medium class ppl. No one look down Isarn people or any body from their birth place, cuz you know many famous people are from Isarn. Some hiso rich ppl are from there if you see their background. and not all of "HISO" people are from BKK. Some of them, come from the north, come from the south, come from north east.

[Chatty]

non-violent protest seems is not what big boss wanted to see. But since Seh. Deang and Chawalit been watching from Gov., violence would not easy happen and the weapons have been found and seized already what can they do.

One more thing, IMO, UDD chose wrong time to demon as at the mo TH people (especially living in BKK) are sick of protest and their kids going to have the final exam then summer holidays which supposed to be glory festiva season but .. see? they have to hang around at home eat ham and cheese from 7-11

:x whae !

You can still buy a lighter, piece of rag and a bottle of spirits from 7/11 so weapons are plentiful if needed....

You talk about BKK people like no one else exists Kus, maybe that is the bigger problem. I don't like this red movement as much as the next person but i also don't like how the reds seemed to be regarded as pests/low and how Bangkok separates itself from the rest of the population. These people are still Thai...

Good point. I'm not on one side or the other, but the way the elitists put down the red shirts is close to the point of calling them animals.

Thailand has to accept what Thailand is at the moment before moving forward. The majority of Thailand thinks one way, yet money has a lot of power and wants to move it in another direction.

It really is Bangkok against the north...the minority versus the majority.

I consider what is in red you said a provacative which possibly leads offend. The fact is most of thai people dont believe anymore that red shirts are now fight for demorcracy but for one certain person. Dont forget that red shirts are not majority. This conflict is not Bangkokian against north or Isarn but just a group of people from North and Isarn.

Dear p'Kus,

Believe it or not... The red shirt leaders are trying to raise up the issue between BKK and upcountry ppl, I have seen so many this kinda topics on Pantip.com. One thing I know. They feel they are in "lower lower class" everyone is trying to step on them. So the red shirt leaders take advantage from their feelings.

[Admin_2]

non-violent protest seems is not what big boss wanted to see. But since Seh. Deang and Chawalit been watching from Gov., violence would not easy happen and the weapons have been found and seized already what can they do.

One more thing, IMO, UDD chose wrong time to demon as at the mo TH people (especially living in BKK) are sick of protest and their kids going to have the final exam then summer holidays which supposed to be glory festiva season but .. see? they have to hang around at home eat ham and cheese from 7-11

:x whae !

You can still buy a lighter, piece of rag and a bottle of spirits from 7/11 so weapons are plentiful if needed....

You talk about BKK people like no one else exists Kus, maybe that is the bigger problem. I don't like this red movement as much as the next person but i also don't like how the reds seemed to be regarded as pests/low and how Bangkok separates itself from the rest of the population. These people are still Thai...

Good point. I'm not on one side or the other, but the way the elitists put down the red shirts is close to the point of calling them animals.

Thailand has to accept what Thailand is at the moment before moving forward. The majority of Thailand thinks one way, yet money has a lot of power and wants to move it in another direction.

It really is Bangkok against the north...the minority versus the majority.

I consider what is in red you said a provacative which possibly leads offend. The fact is most of thai people dont believe anymore that red shirts are now fight for demorcracy but for one certain person. Dont forget that red shirts are not majority. This conflict is not Bangkokian against north or Isarn but just a group of people from North and Isarn.

In their minds, Thaksin was voted into power democratically. So Thaksin is the face of democracy, which was taken out during a coup. You and I may not agree with that, but the point is that they believe they are fighting for their rights as Thais to vote for their government.

[Admin_2]

Guys, as I'm half BKKian and half Issarn born and raise here. I don't thin Bangkokian think ppl from up countries are low.

I really disagree. When hiso Thais ask if I have a gf they smile and say great. Then they ask where she is from and I say Isaan, usually the demeanor changes. I've even had some people get sour faces in disgust and ask me "Why? Why do you like a girl from Isaan?" I tell them she has a uni degree and is a good person, but no...it doesn't work.

If you say she is from Bangkok, you don't get that sort of response. Bangkokians usually think that upcountry people are low from my experience.

I have no idea that the people you have met... but I'm around with people who are in BKK, from upcountry, from other country, rich people, medium class ppl. No one look down Isarn people or any body from their birth place, cuz you know many famous people are from Isarn. Some hiso rich ppl are from there if you see their background. and not all of "HISO" people are from BKK. Some of them, come from the north, come from the south, come from north east.

Of course there are exceptions, but in general...the money is in Bangkok. HiSo's are in Bangkok.

Obviously, you know Thais better than I do, but my take on this is different. I see you as referring to the exceptions and saying, "Hey look...we respect Isaan people as much as HiSo Thais because there are Isaan stars on TV." Though this is true, I don't think it reflects the overall view of people from Isaan vs. the people from Bangkok.

Also, there are rich people that come from Isaan, but VERY few. VERY few. Again, you are pointing out a small exception that go against the general/overall situation here.

We do the same thing in America. Southerners are seen as stupid inbreds, and northerners are seen as well educated, snotty and stuck up. But hey, there are exceptions!

[Rob]

Southerners are seen as stupid inbreds

LOL!! Actually that varies from one bigot to another.

But being half Caucasian and half American Indian (and 100% Southern!), I think I have some understanding of Neung's perspective.

And having heard some of the same kind of negative attitudes you've witnessed regarding Isaan people, I can understand yours.

Stereotypes don't appear out of thin air; but it's unfortunate when those who fit the demographic but not the stereotype are automatically judged as though they are part of the stereotypical group.

[Admin_2]

Ok, Rob is the only exception. But certainly not George Dubbya!

I know what you mean...My point was that most countries have stereotypes within its own borders, and it's normal.

Denying that your country has stereotypes of its own people is absurd.

[drlovelife8]

non-violent protest seems is not what big boss wanted to see. But since Seh. Deang and Chawalit been watching from Gov., violence would not easy happen and the weapons have been found and seized already what can they do.

One more thing, IMO, UDD chose wrong time to demon as at the mo TH people (especially living in BKK) are sick of protest and their kids going to have the final exam then summer holidays which supposed to be glory festiva season but .. see? they have to hang around at home eat ham and cheese from 7-11

:x whae !

You can still buy a lighter, piece of rag and a bottle of spirits from 7/11 so weapons are plentiful if needed....

You talk about BKK people like no one else exists Kus, maybe that is the bigger problem. I don't like this red movement as much as the next person but i also don't like how the reds seemed to be regarded as pests/low and how Bangkok separates itself from the rest of the population. These people are still Thai...

Good point. I'm not on one side or the other, but the way the elitists put down the red shirts is close to the point of calling them animals.

Thailand has to accept what Thailand is at the moment before moving forward. The majority of Thailand thinks one way, yet money has a lot of power and wants to move it in another direction.

It really is Bangkok against the north...the minority versus the majority.

I consider what is in red you said a provacative which possibly leads offend. The fact is most of thai people dont believe anymore that red shirts are now fight for demorcracy but for one certain person. Dont forget that red shirts are not majority. This conflict is not Bangkokian against north or Isarn but just a group of people from North and Isarn.

In their minds, Thaksin was voted into power democratically. So Thaksin is the face of democracy, which was taken out during a coup. You and I may not agree with that, but the point is that they believe they are fighting for their rights as Thais to vote for their government.

It's worth noting Mr Japamaerican is a farang (i think) and his girl is from Isan. If you are a farang and you have an Isan GF it is automatically a negative.

You can see the faces expression read....... " A farang with an Isan GF, What a ******* surprise" This has to be dealt with everyday by farangs and thier Thai GF's....... everyday.

I have almost stopped and social events with Isan girls due to this attitude... It is a bit deserved though too when you look at this hollistically. (spelling)

[LakeGeneve]

Guys, as I'm half BKKian and half Issarn born and raise here. I don't thin Bangkokian think ppl from up countries are low.

I really disagree. When hiso Thais ask if I have a gf they smile and say great. Then they ask where she is from and I say Isaan, usually the demeanor changes. I've even had some people get sour faces in disgust and ask me "Why? Why do you like a girl from Isaan?" I tell them she has a uni degree and is a good person, but no...it doesn't work.

If you say she is from Bangkok, you don't get that sort of response. Bangkokians usually think that upcountry people are low from my experience.

I have no idea that the people you have met... but I'm around with people who are in BKK, from upcountry, from other country, rich people, medium class ppl. No one look down Isarn people or any body from their birth place, cuz you know many famous people are from Isarn. Some hiso rich ppl are from there if you see their background. and not all of "HISO" people are from BKK. Some of them, come from the north, come from the south, come from north east.

Of course there are exceptions, but in general...the money is in Bangkok. HiSo's are in Bangkok.

Obviously, you know Thais better than I do, but my take on this is different. I see you as referring to the exceptions and saying, "Hey look...we respect Isaan people as much as HiSo Thais because there are Isaan stars on TV." Though this is true, I don't think it reflects the overall view of people from Isaan vs. the people from Bangkok.

Also, there are rich people that come from Isaan, but VERY few. VERY few. Again, you are pointing out a small exception that go against the general/overall situation here.

This is the crux of what is underlying as we all know (except for the more fundamental underlying issue which we cannot discuss regardng what happens after Elvis leaves the building); how does the disenfranchised impoverished masses gain a degree of economic and political empowerment in such a hierarchical society where a small number of elites have fattened themselves for decades.

However, Rob I would guess that the BKK elite HiSO set numbers only 5% of the BKK pop so it seems incorrect to just refer to their attitudes as being representative of BKK as BKK is much, mush more diverse.

We have slum communities that have existed for over a century, we have muslim communities from the south, we have large new middle class urban communities (BKK bred and from other regions), artistic and political communities who would generally be supportive of the struggle of the poor but not their political leaders and large numbers of working class generally from other parts of the country, predominatle Isan. That diversity is shown by the voting patterns in the last 4 elections since 2005.

Similarly, Isan does not have a monopoly on poor communities in Thailand. The poorest communities would definately be the many hill ethnic tribes mainly from the North and North west and also muslim communities in the south. Anyone from Yala, Naritiwat and Pattani provinces probably has more of a sense of historcial economic marginalisation than many Isan provinces. Yet, one is hard pressed to find Thaksin or UDD supporter in many parts south of country. In fact, electorally the Dems are stonger there than in BKK!

I am not going to pretend that I know all of the political picture here (who really does) but it seems no incoect to say that most UDD leaders and PT members care for the struggles of the poor. Does anyone really believe that former PPP PM Samak cared for the poor given his political history? What about Chavalit or PPP Yongyuth?

It is a means to an end for most of them exploiting a popular sentiment planted by Thaksins populist and hugely successful electoral strategy. Many of the PT have been part of the political establishment for decades and you have former PMs and generals in the party. And TRT had a number of elites serving during its term of government. And it seems much of the BKK was happy diuring this period while everyone was making loads of money.

Neither to say that the Dems and the PAD represent only the established elites as both groups are very diverse.

Buamjaithai (Newins group) were they key to forming this govt but they are an Isan based party (Buriram stronghold) with much of the same constiuents as the PT mwho will swing whichever way they can maximise the gravey train (refer Bus leasing project). Who is going to say they represent the elite? (even if Newin likes ot attend Polo matches and now has his own football team)

I think the mosiac of all groups is much more diverse and we should avoid the pitfalls of overseas journos who present the power struggle as a simplistic narrative of red/Thaksin poor v yellow/Dem rich elites. The same of politics in any country.

It is a silly as saying the whole army is behind the Dems which is patently untrue given the 3 broad (and many smaller) factions in the armed forces and those still loyal to Thaskin particularly his class 10 mates who are bidding their time.

[LakeGeneve]

Interesting tool for guessing crowd numbers at Ratchdamnoen rd (Klang and Nok), Sanum Luang and Lumpini on the Post website;

http://www.bangkokpost.com/thaksin-judgement-day/protest_capacity.html

[PiAnt]

I'm all for civil disobedience if that's what it takes to get your point across.

Not all wankers are total, self-serving wankers after all.

(Present company excepted.)

[Loburt]

Interesting tool for guessing crowd numbers at Ratchdamnoen rd (Klang and Nok), Sanum Luang and Lumpini on the Post website;

http://www.bangkokpost.com/thaksin-judgement-day/protest_capacity.html

My guess is there were about 50,000 out there this afternoon on Rajadamnern. Of course red shirt leaders were announcing this from the stage as half a million.

The entire Road was not occupied, and the stretch from Democracy Monument to Sanam Luang was fairly empty. It was difficult to see up Rajadamnern Nok, but it certainly wasn't full by any means.

Sanam Luang is basically a parking lot at the moment, so there was almost no one there.

The numbers will get larger in the evening, but I would not expect much over 100,000.

Of course this will be announced as a million.

[PiAnt]

Interesting tool for guessing crowd numbers at Ratchdamnoen rd (Klang and Nok), Sanum Luang and Lumpini on the Post website;

http://www.bangkokpost.com/thaksin-judgement-day/protest_capacity.html

My guess is there were about 50,000 out there this afternoon on Rajadamnern. Of course red shirt leaders were announcing this from the stage as half a million.

The entire Road was not occupied, and the stretch from Democracy Monument to Sanam Luang was fairly empty. It was difficult to see up Rajadamnern Nok, but it certainly wasn't full by any means.

Sanam Luang is basically a parking lot at the moment, so there was almost no one there.

The numbers will get larger in the evening, but I would not expect much over 100,000.

Of course this will be announced as a million.

**** me I thought you were dead.

[Teddy]

Is there a hot guy on TF?! :shock:

lol

you mean Teddy is not? :shock:

I know Danno, Im as shocked as you. :wink:

Hopefully she meant all the other schmucks on here. If not then words will be said. lol :evil:

Awww just noticed that you on tf too baby! Can I take my word back then? There's def a hot guy on TF..lol

You sweet talker you. Providing you were talking about me, I think Im going to blush. :oops: :wink:

[Loburt]

Also, there are rich people that come from Isaan, but VERY few. VERY few. Again, you are pointing out a small exception that go against the general/overall situation here.

LG is correct in that the situation is more complex than how you are portraying.

But I'd like to pose another question:

Why do the poor people of Isaan only elect the rich among them to represent them?

How many farmers, NGO leaders, community activists do you see getting elected to parliament from Isaan?

Just about zero.

Who gets elected? Newin Chidchob, Adisorn Piangket, etc. All big businessmen who are worth tens of millions of dollars. These people have been in office for about 20 years now (and involved in numerous corruption scandals), before during and after Thaksin. Their various parties have been in power through most of that time. And have the problems of Isaan people been solved? How much has really changed?

Community activists in Isaan and the north more often than not are threatened (I wonder by who), and sometimes murdered.

Yet we are told the problem is the Bangkok elite.